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Pakrz posted:
Goalline posted:

If the greatest coach in modern times is your standard you'll never be happy.

That's a fair statement.  Let me ask you this... Would you consider 2 championships in 3 decades of HOF quarterback play successful? 

Successful, yes. Less than they should have won? Yes. One of the two architects is in the Hall of Fame, and the second has a good chance. I think I view seasons as successful even if they don't end up in a Super Bowl. For other fans, that is the only measure of success.  

I also don't think TT nor Wolf are above criticism.  I've done it myself. Neither man has been perfect. Neither is Belichick or Vince Lombardi. What I hate are ill-informed criticisms. Like idiots that want to criticize him based on what Mel Kiper said. Mel Kiper's, the same guy who cannot match Packerjoe predicting draft picks? How pathetic. 

Wait? Are you telling me Packerjoe isn't scouting NFL players? I feel so cheated.

BTW, I haven't enjoyed a TT draft in a long time. Not since he started drafting for need. Eventually, our offense is going to suffer, the way he has been attempting to reload an under-performing defense with all these picks. His drafts were so much better when he was a pure BPA guy.

Absolutely agree with that GL... and I believe that clearly translates into TT being average at best for several years now.  The story on TT since he started in GB was that he was a draft guru but ultra-conservative in using FA to fill gaps.  Subtract the draft guru label and you're left with what?  Yea... If it weren't for Arod this team would be picking in the top 10 each year.  Don't forget GB was 4-6 before it went on a late season streak.  

While I like the KK pick, the fact that TT passed on Lamp at the top of R2 tells you his preaching about BPA is a load of crap.  He drafts for need.  

Considering TT was a LB when he played, one could think that drafting defensive players would be in his wheelhouse....

FWIW, I think GB is in fine shape on offense for the foreseeable future if the guys we have in the pipeline indeed develop. The development of defensive players seems to be at a slower pace, but it's not like the cupboard is bare.

Thompson drafts BPA at a position of need. Always has. Like all GMs, he slots players. Rarely does he have 1 player in mind for a pick. When they traded down for more picks and still got Jordy, he has said they had 5 or 6 guys they liked and felt very good that one of them would still be there in the 2nd. Felt good because of the way teams were picking.

He's not perfect, but he's one of the best. 

Personnel guys. Coaches. Players. All need to do their jobs to win it all.

Last edited by H5
Pakrz posted:

Absolutely agree with that GL... and I believe that clearly translates into TT being average at best for several years now.  The story on TT since he started in GB was that he was a draft guru but ultra-conservative in using FA to fill gaps.  Subtract the draft guru label and you're left with what?  Yea... If it weren't for Arod this team would be picking in the top 10 each year.  Don't forget GB was 4-6 before it went on a late season streak.  

While I like the KK pick, the fact that TT passed on Lamp at the top of R2 tells you his preaching about BPA is a load of crap.  He drafts for need.  

Well, I don't know if Lamp was BPA on their board, but when the man's picks just so happen to meet their needs every year, not buying his BPA contention. Also not going to beat him up for not building a team that can't win without a top quality QB. Not many can do that.

Henry made a valid point in the KK thread. It's hard to get overly excited for the defensive players taken given how things have worked out on that side of the ball the past six years. 

Is Ted just ****ty at scouting defense? The argument for is players that didn't stick in GB and ended going elsewhere never got any better (exception is probably Casey Hayward) 

Defensive picks in the first three rounds since 2010:

2010. Mike Neal, Morgan Burnett. 1 starter, 1 washout  

2011. No defensive players taken first three rounds. 

2012. Nick Perry, Jerell Worthy, Casey Hayward. A starter, a Guy, and a good corner playing elsewhere. 

2013. Datone Jones. Bad miss by Ted. Maybe a good player. Just a bad match between player and system. 

2014. Ha Ha, Kyri Thornton. Starter and one of Ted's better picks. And possibly the single worst pick Ted has made in GB. 

2015. Randall, Rollins. We'll know after this year. 

2016. Kenny Clark, Kyler Fackrell. Clark could be really, really good. Kyler looks like rotational support at best right now but it's early. 

That's 12 players picked on defense in the first three rounds in the past seven years. Players you expect to either start or compete for regular snaps. 

As of today, you can make the argument that four of those picks worked. Morgan, Perry, Ha Ha, and Clark. Hayward as well but for someone else. 

Jury is out on three of them. Randall, Rollins, and Fackrell.

Three of them were just bad picks. Worthy, Neal, Jones. 

One of them was a complete unmitigated disaster. Thornton.

If, and this is a big if, Randall and Rollins are closer to 2015 Randall and Rollins then it's not a horrible ratio of quality picks to total picks. 

If they don't work out then less than half of Ted's defensive picks in the first three rounds over the past seven years worked out. Not good. 

With the exception of Sherrod and depending on where you stand on Eddie Lacy. Ted hasn't missed on any offensive picks taken in the first three rounds since 2010. 

I don't think it's purely on Ted's inability to identify defensive talent. I think the defensive staff has contributed greatly to mixed results. Other than Kyri Thornton of course. 

Last edited by ChilliJon
Hungry5 posted:

Thompson drafts BPA at a position of need. Always has. Like all GMs, he slots players. Rarely does he have 1 player in mind for a pick. When they traded down for more picks and still got Jordy, he has said they had 5 or 6 guys they liked and felt very good that one of them would still be there in the 2nd. Felt good because of the way teams were picking.

He's not perfect, but he's one of the best. 

Personnel guys. Coaches. Players. All need to do their jobs to win it all.

I see little difference in his approach vs the teams that admit they draft for need.

 

Nice post, Chilli.

Last edited by Goalline
packerboi posted:

Well kids...

This makes how many top picks for this defense by TT in an attempt to "fix" the defense over how many drafts now?

You can't say Ted hasn't tried. He's given this D high pick after high pick, draft after draft.

If the defense can't turn it around, at what point does it lay at Capers toupee' ?

Or is he An Outstanding Football Coach,

No.

Matter.

What.

He's tried to provide talent but failed.   Outside of Hayward, who left and accomplished anything?

That said, Capers sucks too.   In other words, we're getting the wobbly H, ****ed on both ends.   

Great post Chili. One could argue that 2009 was the outlier on defense for TT in terms of Rounds 1-3 for defensive players. His 2005-2008 drafts netted 1 great player and one solid contributor (albeit a disappointment based on draft position) and 3 busts. 

2009: Raji, CM3. One Pro Bowler and one borderline NFL Hall of Famer

2008: Pat Lee.  Bust

2007: Justin Harrell. Bust

2006: AJ Hawk and Abdul Hodge. One long-term contributor who never lived up to his draft position and one bust.

2005: Nick Collins. One of TT's top draft picks.

 

ChilliJon posted:

I don't think it's purely on Ted's inability to identify defensive talent. I think the defensive staff has contributed greatly to mixed results. Other than Kyri Thornton of course. 

Well, and this goes to MM and his "loyalty" in his assistants. We've said it before, it bears repeating.

When you are an assistant coach, including Capers, pseudo HC Moss, etc and you literally have NO worries of getting fired ...that much job security can't do much if anything in lighting a fire under these coaches asses to develop these players.

Look at Clements. Gets play calling taken away from him, gets demoted, and is he fired? Hell no. Keeps his job, his salary. He left on his own accord because he simply felt like going in another direction.

Darren Perry? Gets pinched for OWI. Not his first. Has a pattern with alcohol issues. He's safe and sound in the same job.

Wiston Moss? Our sorta HC? Has churned out mediocrity year after year, almost never do you hear of even a mid-round player he's developed into a stud. Just doesn't happen. 

Capers? lolololol. He does no wrong. He's an outstanding football coach,

Last edited by packerboi
Tschmack posted:

Been there in my line of work and MM is skating on thin ice

Compers is a has been and he is killing this team.  If McCarthy wants to save his ass good luck your ass will be canned if you continue to support the guy 

This is exactly the quote I think Brad Childress will give to Colin Cowherd in 2019 after Brad gets canned in KC.

Henry posted:

I'm looking forward to the new "hang 50" defense.

Maybe I am missing an obvious thing here - but I don't get it.  Hang 50 points on GB?  Hang 50 yards on the opposing offense?  Hang around on the field for 50 yards per drive?  Hang 50 on at the local bar after the game?  In which case there will be hangovers - and possibly a new face or two on defense each week. Hang with the opposing team for 50 minutes - and lose it in the last 10?  It can't have anything to do with hang time - GB, according to the fans - don't have anyone that athletic.  And history tells us it has nothing to do with a scoring defense.  So what does "hang 50" mean?  

Ghost of Lambeau posted:
Henry posted:

I'm looking forward to the new "hang 50" defense.

Maybe I am missing an obvious thing here - but I don't get it.  Hang 50 points on GB?  Hang 50 yards on the opposing offense?  Hang around on the field for 50 yards per drive?  Hang 50 on at the local bar after the game?  In which case there will be hangovers - and possibly a new face or two on defense each week. Hang with the opposing team for 50 minutes - and lose it in the last 10?  It can't have anything to do with hang time - GB, according to the fans - don't have anyone that athletic.  And history tells us it has nothing to do with a scoring defense.  So what does "hang 50" mean?  

All which are legitimate interpretations.  The "hang 50" defense is the offense hanging 50+ points on the opposing team.  

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