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What we saw from the defense at the end of the half.... bend but don't break, bend but don't break, bend but don't break, then finally BREAK.

We've seen this pattern for 6-7 years now. The league has too much tape on the Dom & he cannot get away from it unless he has 8 or 9 All-Pros on the defense.

The offense almost always has to bail the team out. The defense held them to a FG after the special teams gaffe. That was a "win".

The last time the defense did anything of significance was in 2010 or early 2011.

Clay Matthews is cute & all, but there is no Reggie White or Charles Woodson on this defense.

Only way we go deep in the playoffs is stay healthy & outscore teams badly. I expect very little from ST's or defense this year.

Lots of notes for comments/discussion; some already mentioned, some not.

The team in general:
ST play seems improved this year. They've been solid both ways 2 weeks in a row, and (I think) only 1 penalty in each game. Crosby hasn't had a lot of opportunities, but I'm not worried about him as long as he gets his snap/hold/kick mojo satisfied.
Vogel was so-so this week. I've got to say I have no idea of the actual numbers, but his hang time seemed to be shorter. He was more lucky than good and got the benefit of a couple of rollers and penalties. Again, not sure if his OOB kick was intended to be directional, but it was 'only' good for 40 yards.
Davis didn't help himself any any with the muff. I think he needs to make better FC/return decisions. McCaffrey made a good catch on a return; he had to run upfield to field a short punt on the fly, made a good catch in traffic, and  gained some yards.

OL depth is at least a bit concerning. I've been riding Spriggs pretty hard so far this year, but goodgawd, he is awful. I think he's actually regressed from last year. It's scary to think we might have to root for Barclay to be healthy so he can be the primary backup. 
McCray had a poor game (at least in pass pro) and drew a penalty.
I hope some of you can add some perspective on the other guys. The left side of the line seemed (much?) weaker than the right, but that may have been because Evans was still playing. 

K. Phillips had an excellent game. He was fair rushing the ball, made a couple of good receptions, and I saw an excellent block in pass pro. Not for sure if the guy he blocked was on a blitz or not, but he stepped up and stonewalled him.
Clark made another nice TD reception. Sure hope we can get him on the PS, but it's going to be hard to have enough spots for everybody.
Hundley had another good game overall. The long throw to Janis was particularly outstanding, his poise and confidence remains firm, and he makes good reads and decisions. No doubt he's a better player when protection is solid, but who isn't? He does need to work on his 'hot reads' so he doesn't take a sack. He just needs some game time to round out his game.
And how 'bout this Taysom Hill kid? I try to keep in mind that's it's pre-season and all too easy to get overly excited, but I'm fairly impressed. I think his basic skills are solid, and I'm going to assume he's responding well to coaching because he is every bit as poised and confident as our other QBs, and it's obvious the game isn't "too big" for him. 
I noted on one play he was trying to get his receivers properly aligned before the snap (some kind of pre-snap reset then motion involving 2 different guys), so I think he's smart enough to learn and run a pro offense.
He's also got an effective play action, and throws well on the run when he rolls out. 
Tonight, in particular, he also played very well in the rain. Ball security wasn't an issue, and he threw some great passes.
I'm afraid he might follow a path like Callahan did last year, but I really hope the Packers find some way to keep him on the PS.

Defense played much better overall this week. Still plenty of frustrating plays, but rush defense was solid and pass coverage was improved. 
I don't want to say Perine was lucky, but he accumulated his rushing yards largely because of missed tackles more than just running over/around guys. 
It looks like most of our DL gets good penetration regularly; they're generating some pressure but not much in the way of sacks. 
Likewise, LBs and DBs aren't generating TOs thus far. I don't know that either are concerning at this point, but I'd rather see some.
Hawkins in particular had a killer game! Pass coverage was good, if not excellent, had a couple of pass break-ups I thought were outstanding, and  had good ST coverage to boot!
D. Brown had a good game in pass coverage and had that near pick.
Pipkins was decent again, but he needs to mature mentally.
R. Gilbert showed some good speed, and made a great play to get a sack.
Conversely, Thomas was POOR in pass coverage. It's pretty obvious he can't cover a RB out of the backfield, but he's not so bad vs the rush. Unfortunately, I haven't seen anybody else that can replace him...
D. Mathews may have been worse. He was late getting on the field on one play and gave up a big pass play. C. Heiman got beat pretty badly for a TD. I wonder why there wasn't any S support on that play, but it seems our opponents can regularly isolate a RB or a TE on our LBs whatever the case is.
Martinez (?) got beat to the outside by Perine on one play, but seemed fair otherwise. He did make a good tackle on a punt return.

Davis is ultimately responsible for the muff, but King has to do a much better job on the play holding his block. Callahan is a nice story and he's maximized his potential but Hill has more upside and I love the added dimension his feet bring. Janis! appears to be playing offense much better and looks to be close to a lock. Hawkins played really well in the start and given his speed hard to see him not making the cut. Thought the defense played exceptionally well given it was twos and threes from the Packers against their ones for much of the first half.

Edit: Forgot Hundley- 144.6 passer rating behind a very shaky OL. Don't quite understand some of the criticism of him I've been hearing from some fans.

Last edited by michiganjoe
Brainwashed Boris posted:

What we saw from the defense at the end of the half.... bend but don't break, bend but don't break, bend but don't break, then finally BREAK.

We've seen this pattern for 6-7 years now. The league has too much tape on the Dom & he cannot get away from it unless he has 8 or 9 All-Pros on the defense.

The offense almost always has to bail the team out. The defense held them to a FG after the special teams gaffe. That was a "win".

The last time the defense did anything of significance was in 2010 or early 2011.

Clay Matthews is cute & all, but there is no Reggie White or Charles Woodson on this defense.

Only way we go deep in the playoffs is stay healthy & outscore teams badly. I expect very little from ST's or defense this year.

Jeez boss, lot of pessimism about a defense that has allowed only 26 points in 8 quarters so far this preseason. I would say the starting D has allowed less than that in their time on the field.

mikestaple posted:

Omg. Watching reply on NFL Network.  I had blissfully forgotten what a horrible experience it is to listen to Joe Theisman as an announcer.  What a blow hard. 

circumstances as they were, I listened to Wayne and Larry for the first hour of the game while driving back home.  needless to say, they were sorely missed after I switched to tv and gannon and co.  ugh.

but I'd take gannon and co. over blowhard joe any day. 

mikestaple posted:

Omg. Watching reply on NFL Network.  I had blissfully forgotten what a horrible experience it is to listen to Joe Theisman as an announcer.  What a blow hard. 

You're right.....I'm watching a DVR'd version of the NFL taped game, and CAN NOT STAND THIGHMAN's analysis.  Ugh.....horrible.  and did I mention my boyfriend is amazing, just amazing.   

I don't know how many WRs the Packers end up keeping, but after this week, it would be tough to send either Janis or McCaffery packing.  Allison can play, but just the fact he has a looming suspension puts him behind those 2 guys in my eyes.  As for T. Davis, looks like a good athlete, but definitely looks more like practice squad material as he still seems more raw than the rest of the crew.

Allison is a roster lock. McCaffrey is a better WR than Janis. Janis knows how to run one route. Janis is a gunner. So it really comes down to where the coaches put their emphasis. I'll say this. I'd have a bigger issue watching McCaffrey catching passes somewhere else before watching Janis making tackles on ST for someone else. 

Brainwashed Boris posted:

What we saw from the defense at the end of the half.... bend but don't break, bend but don't break, bend but don't break, then finally BREAK.

According to Pete Dougherty, Capers went full scale substitution with 2 minutes remaining in the half. So when the Packer Defense first gave up points, it was our 2's against the Skins 1's. So there's that  

Was nice to see our secondary play well ... Hawkins, King, and Rollins all made plays. And with no pass rush. 

Any word on Lowry ??

My takeaways from the preseason so far:

- Spriggs is a bust.   Cut bait now and find a serviceable alternative at cut downs.  I can't remember the last time we were this thin at OL depth.  

- I'd keep Max Mcaffrey over Davis.   Davis is a home run threat but doesn't have football instincts / intelligence.  

- Overall, this team is very top heavy.   Only position with real depth is safety   

 

I DVRd the game and I thought overall the team played pretty well.   Hawkins was the guy that stood out to me as did Taysom Hill.   To a lesser extent Clark is quietly having a solid preseason. 

Depth right now is the primary concern especially in the trenches - both sides of the ball.  They may need to add another OL or DL.  

heyward posted:

Will it bother you if McCaffrey is catching passes for the Orlando Predators?

That would be a long road to arena ball.  A guy that runs solid routes and catches the ball?  I think there may be a need in the NFL for a guy like that.  Just maybe.

Janis is in.  I'd really like Davis not to be a complete crapshoot but he is.  Doesn't sound like Yancey and Dupre are bad or good at this point.  I don't care if they keep a development guy on the 53 simply due to the starting WR/TE this team has.  I wouldn't think a 5 or 6 will even see the field that much.  

I'd rather have a RB, OL or CB in the bullpen quite frankly.  WR position is just fine.

BrainDed posted:

My takeaways from the preseason so far:

- Spriggs is a bust.   Cut bait now and find a serviceable alternative at cut downs.  I can't remember the last time we were this thin at OL depth.  

 

If Barclay can hang on this long there is no way humanly possible Spriggs is going anywhere.  Just have the guy play T and nothing else.  Don't try to use him with your mix and match crap up and down the line.  He can't do it.  Make him a T and keep him a T and hopefully he won't suck as much if he actually has to cover for injury.

Wouldn't mind seeing Hill playing against the 2's in either of the next two games to see what he's really got.  He is faster and has a bigger gun than Callahan, but it remains to be seen what he can do against tougher competition.  He certainly seems like the best player on the field when he's in there with the camp bodies.  Lets see what he can really do.

BrainDed posted:

My takeaways from the preseason so far:

- Spriggs is a bust.   Cut bait now and find a serviceable alternative at cut downs.  I can't remember the last time we were this thin at OL depth.

- Overall, this team is very top heavy.   Only position with real depth is safety   

 

I think it's a little bit better depth wise than you say overall, but I agree with you on the O-Line.  I think we all expected a little bit more from the reserve O-Line than they've shown so far.  The other position I might put down as a slight concern is RB overall with Montgomery having a shaky start to preseason, not even playing yesterday.

I was hoping maybe one of the rookie draft picks would really stand out but nobody has really jumped out to me yet.  The kid from BYU looks ok, but I'd say so far he's been less impressive than say James Starks was from 2010-2014.  In fairness, the poor play of the reserve O-Line is probably hindering what the backs are capable of.

Timmy! posted:

 C. Heiman got beat pretty badly for a TD.

At least it wasn't Clinton-Dix (really should've been a player in the late 90's) doing the beating.

One curious thing I noticed was Williams running with the 1's in the first couple possessions.  It looked like every run off T or G was into a mosh pit.  Runs in those lanes are usually crowded but it seemed like 21 of the 22 people on the field were already within 3yds of the hole.  He was pretty much running into a scrum at the line of scrimmage.  A bit disappointing because I wanted to see what he could do with a little space.  But good thing was he still generated positive yards.

Lowerroster DB's often flash here and there in the preseason but Hawkins might be a player ala Tramon.  That first ball he knocked away from VD in the endzone actually looked like professional DB play.  And he didn't disappear after that.

Allison showed some surprising quicks for such a longlegger.  Still needs some more girth.

Last edited by DH13

Hawkins just seems to have that "it" factor that may very well translate to a roster spot.  

He can run (low 4.4-40), he can jump (40" vertical), he's instinctive and he can hit and tackle.  He may only be 5'10" but he plays a lot bigger than that.   

I was shocked how well he played last night as an UDFA.  It was a dominant performance.   

 

 

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