Official 2017 NFL Draft Thread

Or maybe he's just not that personality. 

Packmeister posted:

I learned a few things from this mock.

 

 

The biggest thing is that their algorithm and logic is borked. It has teams passing over very highly-rated guys for much lower-rated needs. For example, TJ Watt usually rates from the mid-20s to mid-40s, depending on the list used and has been linked by rumor to Pittsburgh. He's rather small to be a hand-down DE, but their lists just use "Edge".

In many drafts, they'll have Pittsburgh passing over top-10 talents like OJ Howard to take a mid-40s Watt, also bypassing other, higher-rated Edge guys who also fit at Rush 'Backer. He also goes to Dallas or Atlanta, who are looking for a hand-down DE when there are similarly-rated guys who are more hand-down types. 

There are also weird runs that happen often. RBs may slide, but then a run happens and good-value picks are followed by poor-value picks. 

Fandame posted:

I don't give a rat's butt what his facial expression is like, but I do care about leadership skills and willingness to step up and drag others along.  

Concerned about his BFI?

Since you care so much about his leadership skills and willingness to step up and drag others along, why would you think he doesn't do those things or doesn't do them enough?  

I'd love to see him do that, for example.  

Regarding CM3 and leadership, it's about coaching,

"It is time!"

... moments later ...

"Spill it Pickett."

Fandame posted:

I'd love to see him do that, for example.  

Do what?  What hasn't he done?

Herschel posted:

Or maybe he's just not that personality. 

Packmeister posted:

I learned a few things from this mock.

 

 

The biggest thing is that their algorithm and logic is borked. It has teams passing over very highly-rated guys for much lower-rated needs. For example, TJ Watt usually rates from the mid-20s to mid-40s, depending on the list used and has been linked by rumor to Pittsburgh. He's rather small to be a hand-down DE, but their lists just use "Edge".

In many drafts, they'll have Pittsburgh passing over top-10 talents like OJ Howard to take a mid-40s Watt, also bypassing other, higher-rated Edge guys who also fit at Rush 'Backer. He also goes to Dallas or Atlanta, who are looking for a hand-down DE when there are similarly-rated guys who are more hand-down types. 

There are also weird runs that happen often. RBs may slide, but then a run happens and good-value picks are followed by poor-value picks. 

I agree...it's far from perfect...just the only tool we have at the moment...main thing is it's simply an experiment to see how things work.

For instance, the first round seems to have played out fairly well...showing quite a few decent corners and edge rushers available at the end of the 1st round...after that, the probabilities really start to take off, as there's so many variables to consider.

Again, I agree with your view. I just like to play GM, and see how close I can get to an actual draft...

There is rarely a consensus on most players in the draft, which makes trying to determine when & where they go almost impossible, other than the first 5 picks or so.   

All that being said, I still maintain that this draft is thin at OL and DL. And RB doesn't seem to be as deep as commonly reported.

I see what Fandame is saying, El-Ka.   It's hard to define but maybe IT.IS.TIME. for Clay to "look" like he's pumping up the younger teammates.  When he's out 6 games again in 2017 due to hammy injuries or whatever, maybe a TV shot of him on the sideline slapping butts, pumping fists....anything....so it's visible.    I would like to see more of that....it doesn't mean he's NOT doing it at practice or in the lockerroom, but sometimes optics play better.   He's our cog on defense.

So if the fans feel better, the defense will do better?

I should have know more butt slapping was the answer

Clay moved to inside linebacker when asked, I can't think of a much better leadership example than that.  I know he does commercials and has long hair and had been injured and these are all really, really bothersome, but really, we fans have nothing to stand on that he isn't a leader on defense.  

Leave the motivating for the coaches

SanDiegoPackFan posted:

I didn't say the others were drafted...I was just comparing McCaffrey to those type of players.  

You didn't have to say it. You are asking TT to draft a player in the first round to fill a role generally occupied by undrafted players. 

Fandame posted:

Herschel posted:

I'd guess they want Matthews to roam more because it does a few things: 

1. He's productive and versatile. 

2. When he gets hurt, you have guys slotted to fill positions. 

3. A great pass rush makes any secondary look better. 

Watt would be nice, so would Hasaan Reddick. With Reddick and Matthews, just think of the Wizarding possibilities!

My question is: How come Matthews has never taken a strong leadership role? Is it because the other D players don't respect him? Is it because he isn't on the field enough? One thing this D is missing is a really strong leader. Usually that guy comes from either the safety or LB position (because of the Dline rotation). I have yet to see Clay step up and be the go-to guy he has the potential to be. Maybe Ha-Ha will be that guy, but I have yet to see it...

It's that stupid hair.

Not leadership

Leadership

Favre used to put icy-hot in players jocks. Leadership?

He also took pictures of himself.

Hungry5 posted:

Favre used to put icy-hot in players jocks. Leadership?

Nice short hair cut. Clearly a leader.

So is the stinky pinky the ultimate display of leadership?

Clay's a vet. He's an excellent player. Maybe it's that he needs to talk up the younger guys on the sideline. Maybe it's congratulate another guy for making a big play while they're still on the field. Just something to show that he's engaged with everyone else and that veteran leadership means something. Yes, did he move inside when asked? Absolutely, he did that to help the team. But it also took him a very long time to say he was okay with it, even as he said he was still looking to move back outside. I'm thinking I'd like to see from Clay the same bearing of Woodson, Butler, etc., guys who celebrated with other players, taught them, and kicked them when they needed it. 

How can you say he doesn't do those things?  

I think you are making **** up for some reason.  I have no reason to believe Clay isn't a great teammate, doesn't support young guys, or doesn't hold guys accountable.  

Unless you are getting way more out of momentary sideline shots than everyone else, you are full of ****.  Do you sit on the sideline and watch Clay's interactions with other players.  Do you have some locker room information you can share with everyone else?  

I have no idea what kind of leader Clay is, if you could identify one tangible thing that verifies your theory, I would love to hear it (other than more ass slapping).  

**** I hate the offseason. 

Leadership

Congratulating 

Celebrating

Besting

Supporting

grimacing

captaining

commiserating

fist bumping

jumping

Sorry, that hair...

Goalline posted:

SanDiegoPackFan posted:

I didn't say the others were drafted...I was just comparing McCaffrey to those type of players.  

You didn't have to say it. You are asking TT to draft a player in the first round to fill a role generally occupied by undrafted players. 

Wrong.  I posited that IF McCaffrey was there, would TT take him.  I didn't say I was asking TT to take him.  Big Difference.

Mild difference.

I would have to think a corner in rounds 1 or 2 is a good bet given Ted's history of targeting that position.  I think it's even more likely given the lack of good OL and DL prospects. 

The other option would be an outside pass rusher like Watt.  Clay seems to be more effective playing inside so if they did that and drafted Watt all of a sudden they have what appears to be a decent trio with Perry and CMIII and Watt getting after the QB.  An improved rush also helps lessen the exposure on our mediocre CB group. 

Just as I say this TT will probably scoff and select a TE or QB early 

He will draft a guard.  

Punter in the 7th

The Homer in me REALLY would like to see the Packers get Watt and Biegel.

As much fun as that would be, that likely means no CB until the third. 

I have a suspicion if  they draft two corners they'll move Rollins to safety, giving him first crack when they slide Burnett down, essentially replacing Hyde. 

The main competing groups would then likely be:

CB: House, Randall, Gunter, Dorleant Hawkins, Draft pick A, Draft pick B, Goodson

S: Burnett, Clinton-Dix, Rollins, Brice

I'd leave Burnett at safety. Gunter's speed ( ) puts him in more of the Hyde/racist role for the DBs I'd think. Also, they seem to think a lot of Evans at S.

I've had the same issues with McCaffrey.  As a player, I love him.  He's a great athlete with a ton of college production and has as high of football character as you could ever want.  No holes.  But Goalline is right, do you really draft a guy in the first round to play a role that can be filled by a late round/undrafted guy (maybe just slightly worse)?  I hear Darren Sproles is the most common comp - would you draft Sproles in the first?  He has just one 1,000 yard season from scrimmage and has played on different 3 teams.  Yea he's a great return man but you do not draft a returner in the first.  I mean people on these boards flipped when Cobb was asked to start at WR AND return punts, so would you really expect your first round pick to be a full time kick returner his entire career?  

Lot of unique questions about McCaffrey that are mostly about value than talent.  Any team has to determine where McCaffrey's ceiling is.  Is it higher than Sproles?  How much higher does it have to be to warrant a first round pick?  I don't know.  

To put it another way, would you rather draft McCaffrey in the first and then an edge defender in the 6th/7th?  Or take TJ Watt in the first and try and find a Dion Lewis, James White, Darren Sproles, Tevon Coleman or Danny Woodhead clone late?  History shows you're better off going option 2, as third down backs are easier to find late, while pass rushers are much more difficult to find later in the draft.  

I guess it depends on how you view McCaffrey. If you see him as Darren Sproles then he's definitely not worth it, but if you view him more as a guy who could have a huge impact like Antonio Brown then there's no question he's worth it. My big question with McCaffrey is whether he's even a RB in the NFL? He's 5'11/203, since 2008 the only two RBs drafted in round 1 to be under 215 were Jahvid Best and CJ Spiller, neither one of the latter two obviously became the bellcow back those teams hoped they would be. Not saying McCaffrey will end up like either, but I don't think you draft him to be a starting RB in the NFL and if you're picking a RB in round 1 then he better be your starter. I'd draft him in round 1 to be a Slot receiver like Antonio Brown, but GB doesn't need a 1st round Slot receiver. 

Hungry5 posted:

I'd leave Burnett at safety. Gunter's speed ( ) puts him in more of the Hyde/racist role for the DBs I'd think. Also, they seem to think a lot of Evans at S.

Yeah, Gunter has no right plying his trade on the perimeter. My mom would smoke him in a foot race, fer crying out loud.

Or maybe Gunter just needs to be matched up on slower WRs.  Or maybe he bullks up and covers TEs.  I don't know what the answer is but it's definitely not having Gunter match up on the outside with guys like Dez Bryant, Odell Beckham and Julio Jones.  

Hungry5 posted:

I'd leave Burnett at safety. Gunter's speed ( ) puts him in more of the Hyde/racist role for the DBs I'd think. Also, they seem to think a lot of Evans at S.

I forgot about Evans, but my guess is that if they draft a corner early, he'll be targeted for man coverage skills, House is better in man, Gunter is better in press man, etc. Rollins seems to have a good skill set for the zone back end combination coverages and being able to slide up and handle more-shifty-than-fast slot guys as he isn't the fastest guy either though he's laterally quick. 

I do NOT see us drafting a RB in first round. Many Mocks do.

http://www.espn.com/blog/green...-cook-to-the-packers

Its BPA and unless a RB expected to go in the top 10-20 is still available we wont do it. TT does not value them that high. Too many Mocks emphasize "need".

El-Stalker-Bong posted:

He will draft a guard.  

Punter in the 7th

Don't we need to trade up for the best LS in the draft?  I would do that in the 1st round just to be sure we have our most pressing need address first.