Pos/Neg from Panthers Game

(MichiganPacker) that's pretty much what I'm seeing too.  There is another option to slowing down those athletic TEs but it requires a Wayne Simmons.  Brent Jones probably still has nightmares.

Oh no!  I firmly believe Winston Campen is worthless, and that's what kills me about his Assistant HC designation.  If anything, that is the biggest reason for the Norvening thread because that's on MM.

 

I just can't figure out why a guy like Whitt can take no talent scrubs and turn them into above average players at one of the toughest positions on the field and Moss doesn't.  Yet Dom is the DC and should be overseeing the defensive coaching staff and player development.  Just another element of disconnection.

I have to agree with those liking the idea of 28 @ inside lb in the dime.  I like his game.

 

No, nobody has said those exact words; however, it's the general feeling around here.   He has been one of the best, but somebody is at fault for the D's performance over the past 3 years.    

 

That leads us back to that argument.  My opinion is that it's about 70% on Coaches and 30% on talent.   I lean this way because I see the same mistakes being made.  Not during this run, but what hurt us in the past was being undisciplined and unsure of assignments.  

Who are these no talent scrubs you speak of?

I just can't figure out why a guy like Whitt can take no talent scrubs and turn them into above average players

Thompson can be a great GM AND miss on draft picks and/or free agents. Even great GMs do that. None of them get it right 100% of the time. Bill Belichick misses all the time, still one of the greats.

"That's what modern football revolves around - making decisions about how to stop TEs who are the equivalent of Division 1 NCAA basketball power forwards"

 

I wouldn't say it revolves around that.   We have one of the top offenses in the league, how many targets did out TE's get yesterday?    The highest targeted TE right now is Olson (pathetic WR's on his team) with 59.  There are 14 WR's with more targets.  

 

You have a couple of those freaks, Graham, Gronk, Gates and maybe Bennett  who are are matchup nightmares, but it's not like every team in the NFL has these guys. 

The depth of this front 7 will ultimately be its strength. We saw it on display. Less drop off from the 1s to the 2s. Then the fun really begins when they're all on the field together.

Capers has toys. His career is marked with too much success for him to not know what to do with his toys.

Side note:  I think Kelvin Benjamin will be a good one, not just because he is the only one tall enough to catch Newton's sky balls, but I think he really went for the ball and seems to have strong hands. 

 

Probably will have a good career with Cam, but could really be dominant with a QB who throws a better ball.  

Grave digger - I think the reason that Bill Belichick the GM can miss and still be one of the greats is that Bill Belichick the coach can bail him out. A great coach and a great QB can make most GMs look good.

 

I don't think MM is in Belichick's class on game day in terms of making adjustments, etc. (although MM doesn't have the benefit of knowing what plays are coming from the Spygate tapes). I think where MM is underrated is he is tremendous at putting together an offensive program and developing offensive talent. Some of his decisions can be maddening (running that stretch play over and over on 3rd and short, for example), but you give him offensive talent and let them gain experience in the system and the offense often looks like a juggernaut. How many head coaches have taken teams to at least the NFC or AFC championship games with two different QBs? Granted, they are both Hall of Fame QBs, but they had very different styles of play. I think that list is pretty short - Bill Parcells, George Seifert, and Bill Cowher off the top of my head. I'm sure there are others, but it's a pretty short list.

 

It will be interesting to see how MM is assessed after he's done, but he's approaching a Hall of Fame caliber career. He's been a head coach for 8 years. In those 8 years, he's won 4 division titles, had 6 playoff appearances, 2 NFC championship games, and won a Super Bowl. One more Super Bowl title and we are clearly talking about an all-time great.

In my opinion, MM doesn't get enough credit. If you take coaches who've coached after 1980 (really when offenses first started to open up), only 4 coaches who have coached more than 5 years have higher winning percentages.

 

Shula .677

Dungy .668

Belichick .656

John Harbaugh .650

Mccarthy .648

 

He's in pretty impressive territory for an extended period of time, but we never hear him talked about as even a top 5 coach in the NFL. Why is that? Who would you rather have right now besides Belichick?

 

I've been told that the immortal Kevin Sumlin would be a huge upgrade over Stupidface.  

Giddy as a school girl in his post game presser yesterday. Loves his NASCAR.

 

 

 

Stupidface McFarty guided us to the playoffs despite having future Hall of Famer Scot Tolzien and future burger flipper Fatt Mlynn at QB for half the season. Seems like a good example of Stupidface the coach bailing out Uncle Ted the savior.

JJ Watt

Ted just keeps giving stupidface great talanted players, any coach could do what he does

Cam was on- target and in the groove vs the Bengals, but seemed off vs the Packers defense

I wonder how/why that happened ?

Probably just a random event, like flipping a coin

good point, I've never seen a QB have a good game one week and an off game the following week before.  

It's their GM's fault. Need to get taller more talented receivers.

positive:

 

went to my first game at Lambeausince the 03 chiefs OT loss. 

awesome experience from the dinner at Titletown Brewing Company on Friday night to the stadium tour Saturday to the brats & tailgating to the awesome 40yd line seats to the ass whipping of a game and 

to top that all off with wild after partys at Curlys and Stadium View. 

What a weekend experience! and the team came out on a mission and focused 

 

only neg was HoF closed, Saints chocked and my dad booked a room in Appleton for some reason so we spent a lot of time commuting. 

 

but overall with the big home win it was an awesome day 

 

 

 

Concur-

And here you can see just how lucky the Packers defense is in randomly scheduling these QBs to have an off day on the very same day we play them. Talk about luck !

 

http://www.teamrankings.com/nf...e-team-passer-rating

 

The Packers defense is number 1 in the league in "Opponent passer rating"

 

 

wolfpack:

went to my first game at Lambeausince the 03 chiefs OT loss.

That was my first.  Nice pick, huh?  On the ride from Green Bay to Milwaukee, local Packer radio said probably the toughest regular season loss since the late 1950's.

IIRC the best statistical predictor for the Super Bowl champion is the difference between your team's passer rating and the opponent's passer rating.

 

Rodgers is second in the league in passer rating, a tic behind Peyton.

 

Packer defense leads in opponent passer rating.

 

Q.E.D.

Seattle 28th on that list????? Wow.

The best statistical predictor for the Super Bowl Champion is this:

 

Prior to 2014. The last time the Green Bay Packers lost a game in Detroit that Aaron Rodgers started was 2010. The Green Bay Packers lost to Detroit in Detroit earlier this year and Aaron Rodgers started. 

 

I think you know where I'm going with this. 

You do know that until 1978 that a season was only 14 games, which is a bog reason that season total yards numbers look better since then, right?

 

Not quite accurate.  I would not say the 33rd and 35th ranked QB's saved their bad game for the Pack.  They are the bottom of the NFL because they suck week in, week out.  I will concede it is not just outliers that give the Pack that ranking, Russell Wilson is ranked 5th (he also elected to have a good day when he played the Pack, or the Pack just wasn't as talented against him, not sure).   Cam is ranked 21st and really only played well in one game all year (that game against the Bengals).  Cutler (11th) is really the one that drives your point, the defense honestly demoralized him and his arm after he started out the year pretty well.

 

EDIT:  Whoops, forgot Tannehill.  24th in passer rating.  He actually had his second best game of the year (at that point) against the Pack.  

 

 

A demoralized arm.

Bet that goes with a polluted mindset.

Here's a question from Ask Vic this morning:

 

Q : Ryan from Lake Saint Louis, MO

The defense looked dynamite, but even on the rare throws when Cam had time, he just seemed to be off. How much of that was great assignment football, and how much of it was getting a guy on an off day?

 

A: He had no one open. His receivers were engaged all over the field. The Panthers couldn't even achieve separation with a flea-flicker play. Why? Because there was no reason for the defensive backs to respect the threat of run. The Packers box players were so dominant against the run that the defensive backs could ignore the run.

 

Cam Newton put up 37 points against the Bengals ( # 3 in opponent passer rating) and only 10 points against the Packers defense. And 7 of those 10 were long after the game was decided. blah blah blah, who cares what I think

 

Please don't mind me; we are all free to follow the Packers in any way that makes us happy.

 

Go Packers

 

 

The current starting UDFA CB duo.

EDIT- Screw you Hank for posting in the middle.

 

Satanori:

 

Doesn't change that your statement was not accurate.

 

Cam Newton also sucked in 4 games.  He's never going to be a great passer.  I agree guys were covered and the defense did really well yesterday, but there were plays where someone could have reasonably made the catch if the pass were lower in the stratosphere.  EDIT: So I looked up that game.  Cam was right at career average for that game, 85 rating, 63% completion percentage, 2 TD's and 1 INT.  He did manage to rush for 100 yards, which clearly Green Bay managed to stop.  If you are asking who has the better defense right now, I have no problem saying Green Bay is better than Cin.  

 

I've never minded you, often enjoy your perspective even beyond the Pack.  I also hope I've never dictated how you should be a fan, if so, I apologize. 

 

I enjoy football for many reason, watching with my dad as a kid, playing in HS, and always, discussing the game.  I hope you don't mind that if I see an argument that is weak that I point that out.  It's not personal, just one reason I frequent the best Packer message board on the internet to talk football.  I would hope and encourage anyone to counter my position, as I'm wrong more often than right (my wife's words, not mine).  

 

T4NFP

quote:

Cam Newton put up 37 points against the Bengals ( # 3 in opponent passer rating) and only 10 points against the Packers defense. And 7 of those 10 were long after the game was decided. blah blah blah, who cares what I think

I wouldn't be surprised it PFF gave Newton a higher rating than Rodgers.

[goes to PFF to check]

Hmmm, those ratings must be somewhere.  Probably under the "Premium Stats" that I'm not going to pay $26.99 to access.

Cam had no one open except Greg Olsen who was WIDE open many times and the other open receivers that Cam over threw. But other than the many times when receivers were open, there was nobody open. Wayne and Larry talked several different times about Cam's well known tendency to over throw receivers. 

 

Tramon Williams did an excellent job on the flea flicker play.

Negative, wrapped in a positive.

Sitton on Lacy keeping runs alive:

"We were kind of standing around a couple plays, looking like (bleep), you know, not blocking."

 

 

current starting UDFA CB duo

They were no talent scrubs because they were UDFAs? Shields and Williams showed talent from day 1 in GB. Whitt did a great job putting them in position to excel. 

 

 

Awesome!!!  Boogity boogity..

Yup, coaching is finally kicking it in gear on D. Think about it: When did the D improve? Only after MM put Capers on notice last off-season that MM was going to get more involved in the D. Translation: Our D either improves this year or you find work elsewhere. I am betting that Capers and his D staff are actually back to coaching rather than scheming. Players? Yes, but getting the right guys on the field and putting them in position to succeed is coaching. Finally.

 

That said, I'm not totally sold yet on our D. Seahawks (D wasn't good); Jets (Geno hot and cold); Lions (look pretty good this year and our D did a pretty good job there); Bears (falling apart as we speak); Vikings (heck, the Bills gave them the ball 4 times and the Vikes still couldn't win!); Dolphins (tough, but still missing a consistently good QB); Panthers (middle of the road points-for and Newton is...). 

 

All in all, this week will be a good test with Brees needing a win to save their season. Brees is the best passing QB we've faced yet this year, they can run a little, and they're at home. If our D plays really well this week and we win or at least hold the Saints' O to, say, two TDs, then I'll be a much bigger believer in our D.

Concur.  **** Henry,  King of the Norvs !

 

Question: Why were Cam's passes in the stratosphere ?

 

FACT: The Packers defense is number 1 in opponent passer rating. ( how is that a weak argument ?)

FACT: They can only play the teams that are on their schedule. ( how is that weak ? )

 

FARCE: All of the other teams in the NFL play either Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning every single week which depresses their defensive ratings

FARCE: The Packers are the only NFL team that faces non-stud QB's that artificially inflate their defensive rankings

 

FACT: The Packers defense has given up fewer points than Seattle or San Francisco this year

FACT: The Packers have a better W/L record than both of the NFC finalists from 2013

 

 I can imagine that the fans who triumphantly planted their flag on Planet Capersucks! would have a hard time accepting that the Packers defense is number 1 in anything besides sucking.

 

And given the vociferous pushback & efforts in debunking this number 1 ranking...

I 'd suggest that is a definite possibility. Maybe next time, I'll serve it with some Tums so its easier to digest.

 

Believe whatever you like, post whatever makes you happy, be any kind of fan you choose

 

Just do me a small favor and see if you can figure out why the Packers current success on defense "bothers" you enough to spend your Victory Monday.... trying to debunk it instead of embracing it ?

 

When you can answer that one honestly  -   you'll be a little closer to The Truth  

 

"I am not concerned with being consistent in what I say

I am concerned with being consistent with The Truth as its revealed to me"

 

 

Go Packers