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Grave Digger posted:

Lots of youth on the D and they play like it. Veteran players like Bradford, Stafford, Marvin Jones have been exploiting the errors of young players (biting on fakes, mental errors, etc) so far this year. It's not surprising, you're asking a 2nd year player in Randall, who is 1 year removed from switching to CB from Safety in college, to be your #1 guy. He's a 1st round pick so he should be a heavy contributor, but it shouldn't be surprising that he's making mistakes. He doesn't need to be benched, he will learn from it and get better. Same for Randall and Gunter and Hawkins and Brice and Martinez and Ryan and Clark and Lowery and Price and Fackrell and any of the other guys who played significant PT today. It would be nice if Randall could be eased in to significant PT, but we don't have that luxury. It will make him better and the D better in the long run though.

Getting eased in is for your rookie season when you're top pick.  So far he and Rollins have regressed from year 1 to year 2, that's not good. 

It's early, and based on their play last year, I'm confident we will see better games from them.  But that doesn't excuse the really poor showings so far.

Grave Digger posted:

I guess I don't understand what's so wrong with the throat slash other than he should have known it was against the rules? It's just like any other celebration except the league arbitratily has a problem with it. 

Seriously?   Personally I don't give a rip, but to say there is no difference is ludicrous.   No difference between symbolically slitting your opponents throat and the Ickey Shuffle or the belt?

I don't think you actually believe that. Maybe we're just not pansies and realize it's not  literal threat.  Sadly, there are a lot of pansies in the world and we have to cater to them these days. 

 

Had a horrible flashback in the second half to the Seattle choke when the Packers were in complete control and failed to finish. MM needs to deliver the killshot rather than going into a shell and allowing the opposition back into the game. 

BrainDed posted:

Seriously?   Personally I don't give a rip, but to say there is no difference is ludicrous.   No difference between symbolically slitting your opponents throat and the Ickey Shuffle or the belt?

I don't think you actually believe that. Maybe we're just not pansies and realize it's not  literal threat.  Sadly, there are a lot of pansies in the world and we have to cater to them these days. 

I do believe it, it's just a celebration. The only time celebrations should be penalized is when they literally delay the game and that should only be a 5 yard delay of game penalty. 

+ Outside LBs all played really strong. Actually, all LBs did. Peppers had a straong game.

+ Oline blocking was really good.

+Lacy strong game.

+Nelson getting back into form. I think they have been pressing a little with this.

- Bellyaching about playcalling in the second half when it was play making that was not happening. There were plays to be made that did get executed. Not exactly MMs fault.

BrainDed posted:

Getting eased in is for your rookie season when you're top pick.  So far he and Rollins have regressed from year 1 to year 2, that's not good. 

It's early, and based on their play last year, I'm confident we will see better games from them.  But that doesn't excuse the really poor showings so far.

Well teams have film on them now, it makes a big difference. It's why sophomore slumps exist. The real test of a player is improving his game and making plays when teams are trying to exploit his weaknesses. Randall and Rollins seem pretty mentally tough, but they're still young. I don't think they have regressed, they are being tested in different ways. 

Grave Digger posted:
The only time celebrations should be penalized is when they literally delay the game and that should only be a 5 yard delay of game penalty. 

Awfully simplistic considering this is a product shown to millions of people across the world, it does not seem unrealistic at all that the NFL wants to keep some things off the field.  Slitting the throat, while symbolic, doesn't need to be there considering the violence it represents and the level of taunting that goes with it.  We also don't need Perry whipping out a "Bloods" representation with his hands, or Peppers drawing a swastic in the air, or Jordy pulling out is six guns and shooting Cobb while he is running away.  

These guys are professionals, they can be emotional and celebrate a big play without taunting the opposition or making a violent gesture.  This is not an outrageous rule for players and coaches to follow.

Dom Capers sucks.

IMG_2759

Kids these days got no respect. With their hip hop dancing and their violent nazi throat slash imagery. I hate it that Perry brought so much violence in to such non-violent sport.

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Last edited by Grave Digger
Grave Digger posted:

I guess I don't understand what's so wrong with the throat slash other than he should have known it was against the rules? It's just like any other celebration except the league arbitratily has a problem with it. 

Because a whole bunch of old white guys really dislike the throat slash. They want the game to be pure like they played it in the 60's and 70's. Lots of concussions sprinkled with some spinal injuries.

Boris posted:

Yeah, well....it didn't happen. Dropping 13 yard pass plays on first down didn't help MM either.

Here's a +++++

LINK

I agree. MM did not go into a shell at all. Trevor Davis had about 5 yards of separation when the ball hit him in the middle of his chest. They had to honor his deep speed which is why he got the cushion. If he catches and makes a cut to the middle he picks up another 15-20 yards.

Kind of pissed that there wasn't more film of Lacy's day posted anywhere. The only film posted, that I saw, was the one where he broke free for 23 yards. He ran for over 100 yards and I thought sure there would be more videos of him moving the pile, etc. Not all of us get to watch the games on TV here in western Wisconsin thanks to stupid NFL rules and those lovely Minnesota media types who go out of their way to screw Packers fans over. Show us the tape!

FLPACKER posted:

In his presser AR said that Rip being out with injury prevented them from using formation that had worked so well for them up to that point. 

Don't know if this in response to my post above it, but this is not an example of going into a shell or being conservative.

Rodgers also said they had limited opportunities in the 2nd half which disrupted their rhythm. 4 drives - FG, punt, punt, game

Execution of the plays that were there was the issue in the 2nd half.

2nd half drives

#1 - result FG ... Lacy, Lacy, Lacy, Lacy, pass to Perillo, Lacy, incomplete to Starks, then it stalled thanks to holding on Bulaga that negated ARs scramble for the 1st to the 13, put them in 3rd and 22. AR scramble for 20 yards. Crosby kicks.

#2 - result punt ... Lacy for 4, Lacy for 14, Lacy for 2, AR sacked, AR incomplete to Cobb (contested ball that Cobb should have caught, IMO).  I had a problem with them going to the pass here, Lacy was a beast and they should have road him longer. But throwing on 2nd and 3rd would not be considered conservative... contrary. The 2nd down play they looked for the home-run with all patterns beyond 15 yards.

#3 - result punt ... Pass incomplete to Davis (dropped). Passing on 1st is not going into a shell. Starks for -1. WTF is he doing in the game and running the ball up the gut with Lacy being a beast? Pass to Starks for 9, short of the yardage. This is the only drive where I said WTF on the calls... seemed really out of sync from the rest of the game.

#4 - result, game ... Lacy, Lacy, AR scramble, slant, Lacy, kneel down... game

Last edited by H5

I'm hoping they get Perillo a little more involved. He's not a dynamic athlete, but much like Tom Crabtree he seems to be constantly underestimated, leading to him being open, and catches everything thrown his way. If he can block at all then I hope he's cross-trained at FB in case Rip goes out again. 

Last edited by Grave Digger
Goalline posted:
Grave Digger posted:

I guess I don't understand what's so wrong with the throat slash other than he should have known it was against the rules? It's just like any other celebration except the league arbitratily has a problem with it. 

Because a whole bunch of old white guys really dislike the throat slash. They want the game to be pure like they played it in the 60's and 70's. Lots of concussions sprinkled with some spinal injuries.

Exactly.

Didn't they also come down on Marshawn for the crotch grab?

Time for the old whitey's to step aside and let the players keep it real.

Conversely, for the D, look at the number of snaps for some of the 1st year guys.

Martinez, Clark, Fackrell, Lowry, Brice and Brice, and even Hawkins.

Last edited by H5

I guess it comes down to what is acceptable to the masses with the celebrations.  Personally, I don't have a problem with Perry doing a throat slash or Von Miller (last year) gyrating.   It's the NFL.  If they are concerned about their image maybe they should do a better job managing their image, you know?  Celebrations on the field aren't the problem. 

 

Hard to argue MM didn't get a bit conservative in the second half when the team's best WR wasn't even targeted. I understand bleeding the clock with that lead but it's a bit of a risky strategy given the leaky zone defense the Packers were playing. Luckily when they needed the first downs on the final drive Lacy and the OL delivered.

I have no problem with celebrating a big play, but my definition of a big play and the majority of NFL players definition of a big play has diverged in recent years.  A third down sack in the fourth quarter of a close game?  That's huge, celebrate Nick Perry.  A pick six in the Super bowl?  Do whatever feels right Nick Collins.  A 12 yard catch in the first quarter of a non-division game?  Relax, majority of NFL receivers.  

The refs just need to determine if the celebration is excessive when considering the situation and the play.  

Packers put up 3 points in the second half.  I don't care what kind of lead you have, that's an awful half of offensive football.  And they gave up 17 points.  Again, not good defensively (although I'll give them a pass, being down 4 starters and a key backup).  Don't know if it was execution, play calling, or whatever but when you go up 31-3, the game should be over.  You have  4 TD cushion as well as the fact that you've been destroying the opponent on both offense and defense.  Just keep doing it!  Something changed on both sides of the ball and it's become a theme with MM in his entire tenure.  

When you go up 31-3, I want to see that continue into the third quarter so that in the 4th, it's 41-6 and our starters get valuable rest and our backups get valuable playing time.  

I know this is pretty negative for a good bounce back win, but I have Super Bowl aspirations for this team and the second half performance was not good enough to beat a top 5 team, which is what they'll see in the playoffs.  

Offense needed to eat some clock, but the defense was absolutely hemorrhaging. I know they were short handed but the inability to adjust has been a chronic issue. It's remarkable to me how there are shining examples of improvement(ILB play, top shelf run defense) yet massive leaks exist elsewhere. This year the leaks appear to be mid tier coverage and CB play. It seems when a WR is going off during the game Capers struggles to adjust - Randall gets smoked by the opponents #1 WR two weeks in a row - is he not giving him help, or is the help late ?  Looked to me like the help from HaHa and Hyde was either not there or way too late. 

Last edited by Packdog

If it's delaying the game it should be a delay of game penalty. Some of those group dances in the endzone go on far too long and delay the next play. I don't think it should be a 15 yard penalty though, an eye roll and a 5 yarder is sufficient. If it's delaying the offense from huddling up and calling a play then it's the coach's responsibility to deal with that player. That doesn't slow the game, just impede the offense from getting huddled and the play call. 

michiganjoe posted:

Hard to argue MM didn't get a bit conservative in the second half when the team's best WR wasn't even targeted. I understand bleeding the clock with that lead but it's a bit of a risky strategy given the leaky zone defense the Packers were playing. Luckily when they needed the first downs on the final drive Lacy and the OL delivered.

Asked and answered.

On their first drive of the 2nd half they drove to the DET 13 only to get pushed back due to execution (Bulaga penalty), not DET defense stopping them.

2nd drive, if they stayed with Lacy (and running the ball would be considered more conservative than throwing to most fans), who knows how that goes? Lacy and the OL were playing downhill and had 16 yards on 3 consecutive carries. Instead they went for the home-run on 2nd down which resulted in the sack (actually AR scramble for 0), then the incomplete throw to Cobb.

3rd drive - throwing on 1st is conservative?

So in your mind, not targeting Nelson is conservative play calling? At that point in the game Nelson had owned the DET defense... haven't looked at the ALL-22, but my guess is DET worked hard to bracket Nelson in the 2nd half and take him out of the game. Regardless, not targeting Nelson is more on Rodgers and the overall execution than the play calling.

Considering how well the running game was going in the 2nd half, I'm surprised I'm not hearing more complaints about not running Lacy more.

Last edited by H5
Grave Digger posted:

If it's delaying the game it should be a delay of game penalty. Some of those group dances in the endzone go on far too long and delay the next play. I don't think it should be a 15 yard penalty though, an eye roll and a 5 yarder is sufficient. If it's delaying the offense from huddling up and calling a play then it's the coach's responsibility to deal with that player. That doesn't slow the game, just impede the offense from getting huddled and the play call. 

Agreed, when Marshawn turned around to grab his crotch in AJ's face during the 2014 NFC Championship game, he was not delaying the game in any way. Heck, he could have backpedaled another 30 yards and the hapless Hawk still would not have caught him.

Damn shame the NFL fined Lynch 20K for "celebrating" in the midst in one of the all-time great comebacks in NFL history (or collapses depending upon one's point of view). 

 

How can anyone expect to see the same offense in the second half when you lose your #1TE (at minimum draws D attention) and your FB at halftime?  AR is going to have a much easier time finding 87, 18 and 17 open when 89 is on the field.  

+

A win!  With the offense looking like its old self for the 1H.

The fact that I can complain about the quality of WiFi service allowing me to watch an NFL game live on a plane flying 500 MPH at 35000 

I had Marvin Jones Jr in my starting lineup in FFL

-

The 2H offense left a bit to be desired, but to be honest, it was the time to work on the running game and try to get that going, so I understand the philosophy.

Injuries or not, at some point, we have to slow down the opposing TEs.

Injuries

Other thoughts

Stafford has improved a ton.  He has been really good last year+.  And, hilarious name aside, Jim Bob Cooter has done a really nice job with that offense as a whole.  Tons of weapons over there.  

I know he dropped that one throw, but hoping to see Davis getting more snaps.  I think they need a true legit burner/deep threat out there to loosen up the D.

Stayed in Beverly Wilshire in Beverly Hills this weekend for an award event from my employer.  Rodeo Drive is far smaller than you'd think!  Hollywood and the Walk of Fame - kind of a crappy part of town!   Beverly Hills though is exactly what you'd think.  Plastic looking people everywhere.  If you aren't wearing $6000 suits, you feel out of place.  McLaren's parked on the road randomly.  Ferrari's everywhere.  Maybachs.  Bentleys.  The "beater" cars were MB AMG S63s. Unfarkingreal the money in that place.  Couldn't pay me to live in LA or BH, however Santa Monica is goddamned gorgeous.  If you want great drinks in the area of LA, hit The Varnish or The Normandie Club

Re: Davis. He drew the PI on the long throw from Rodgers. So you're right. Even though that's a PI, it still loosens up the defense. Speed kills.

Rookies drop balls. Hopefully next time he makes the play. 

Also Jordy on the outside is 100% where he should be. He's magnificent. 

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