Roster Projection

McCaffrey's Pro Day stats compared to the 2016 Combine:

40: 4.46 (7th at Combine) *4.36 unofficial 40 time

Vert: 36.5" (8th at Combine)

Broad: 122" (19th at Combine)

Shuttle: 4.15 (9th at Combine)

3Cone: 7.09 (19th at Combine)

Jeff Janis's 2014 Combine Stats and ranking:

40: 4.42 (8th)

Vert: 37.5" (13th)

Broad: 123" (8th)

Shuttle: 3.98 (6th)

3Cone: 6.64 (3rd)

You did say football speed, but in terms of pre-draft measurables there is a negligible difference between the two athltically. Returners are more valuable than gunners, so if McCaffrey shows anything as a returner combined with his contributions at WR I think he could get the edge. Janis had a nice game last week, I hope he's turned a corner as a WR. 

Didn't watch the game Saturday. I see Max was given a shot at PR and returned it 17 yards. Wouldn't surprise me if he was given first PR against Denver. 

"Value" is not only determined by position, but also by the degree to which a player can do something better than others on the roster. Although returners may be more valued than gunners, if we have one player who is significantly better as a gunner than anyone else on the roster, he is more valuable than a player who is one of 3-4 guys equally good as returners. 

Good decisions and ball security is what MM is looking for. If he can give that to the punt return game I say let him have the job.

FLPACKER posted:

"Value" is not only determined by position, but also by the degree to which a player can do something better than others on the roster. Although returners may be more valued than gunners, if we have one player who is significantly better as a gunner than anyone else on the roster, he is more valuable than a player who is one of 3-4 guys equally good as returners. 

I don't think that's necessarily true. If my #5 pass rusher is really good and is competing with my #3 ILB for a roster spot, the good pass rusher will always be kept because pass rushers are more valuable than ILBs regardless of depth at ILB. A great return can change the game more than a great play from a gunner. It's not like Janis is Steve Tasker, he's a good gunner not a great gunner. It all may be a moot point if McCaffrey shows nothing as a returner, we know what we have in Janis. 

michiganjoe posted:

Good decisions and ball security is what MM is looking for. If he can give that to the punt return game I say let him have the job.

Agree.   With our offense a home run threat who is also a turnover threat at punt returner is not worth the risk.   Just catch the damn ball and let Godgers do his thing. 

Not the same comparison, I am talking about a "specialist", not backups for a position that uses multiple players. If Janis is a much better gunner than anyone else on the roster, and McCaffrey is relatively equal to 3-4 other guys as a returner, Janis becomes more  valuable. 

Does Janis lose points in this equation in that he'd be the punt returner in GB if anyone on the coaching staff actually trusted his ability to catch the football? 

Being the best gunner is not the same value as even a capable returner. There aren't 3 or 4 guys at returner right now, Cobb is #1 and you would argue Davis is #2a, McCaffrey is probably #2b, and Rollins is #2c. They won't keep McCaffrey AND Davis though and Cobb/Rollins are starters, so there very likely won't be 3-4 other returners on the roster. Lots of guys can be gunners, it's not that specialized of a position, but returning is much more difficult. If a returner (whether that is McCaffrey or Davis) shines AND contributes on offense at all then I think they get the spot over Janis regardless of what he does as a gunner. 

Davis was benched last year after his muffed punt in Tennessee. So he's in trouble after Saturday. He might get another look the next two weeks but I think they'll take a long look at Max first. 

I just don't see Janis or Davis getting cut. 

I see one or both being cut

ChilliJon posted:

Didn't watch the game Saturday. I see Max was given a shot at PR and returned it 17 yards. Wouldn't surprise me if he was given first PR against Denver. 

He had to run 10 or so yards upfield to catch it on the fly (in what looked like fairly heavy traffic), and just kept going.
I initially thought it was a short punt, but it was a 54 yard kick, so I don't know why he was lined up so deep. He fielded it at the 18 yard line, so he may have been wary of a roller pinning them deep?
In any case, I thought it was an impressive catch and run.

Yeah I did to. Reminded me of the way Hyde caught the ball and just went for it...no dancing like Antonio Chatman.

Give me someone returning punts that catches everything above all else. If they can average around 10 per return, great. If they bust a big return every so often and completely flip field position, even better. 

Hyde was great at catching punts. But he had a nasty habit of letting a lot of punts hit the ground that cost extra field position. Best example I can think of is the Washington Wild Card game in 15. Micah let three punts hit the ground that rolled, and rolled, and rolled. One of the punts was shorter than 40 that ended up over 60. He probably cost GB 60 yards of field position that day. 

Off topic, former Badger LB  Joe Schoebert playing like a beast for Cleveland tonight.  Will we regret not taking TJ Watt?

Watch out for Reggie Gilbert, especially if The Beagle can't hunt.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/...an-roster/594497001/

http://www.jsonline.com/story/...-final-53/598775001/

I'd say McCaffrey is solid.  He'll make it.  Dupre to the PS.  As for Janis and Davis, only 1 makes it, and it will be crucial to see how they play in these last 2 games.  But will MM even let Davis try returning again?  That muff was bad.  But ... IF he could become the next Desmond Howard ... Well, you know.  But the last game Davis was yanked and McCaffrey did a good job, IMHO.  No electric returns, but he made good decisions and secured the ball.   

Rule #1 with PR - You absolutely MUST secure the ball.

I don't give a **** if you're Mel GraY or Rick Upchurch. If you muff punts, you're done. 

This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. And again. What Boss said. 

Agree.  Secure the best Field Position, too.   I hate it when a ball could be fair caught but the PR backs up and let's it bounce.....and it usually ends up going another 20 yards and gives us poor field position.

McCaffrey reminds me of Allison. Shouldn't make the team but he makes plays. It's about productivity

Packers are enamored with Davis' speed and they'll stick with him. TT prefers to go with the players he's invested a draft pick in and McCaffrey still faces rather long odds for a spot, IMO.

I'm not saying McCaffrey doesn't get cut, but Davis is definitely getting cut.  

Davis has explosiveness & body type that none of our other receivers have, I don't see him getting cut. 

But can he play football? 

That's a Janis question, isn't it? 

Yes it is. We're talking about Janis!, right,

michiganjoe posted:

 TT prefers to go with the players he's invested a draft pick in.

This is interesting. I keep seeing this in print. I'm not sure where it came from. Have Thompson or McCarthy said this, or is it one of those beat reporter things that started years ago and just keeps getting repeated, or what?

I'm not sure it's true and if it is, it shouldn't be.

Anyway, with McCaffrey versus the drafted guys, if things continue as they are and he keeps outplaying them, I guess we're about to find out.

My take is that Packers history show that is true. It's hard to recall the last time a rookie didn't play out his original contract. I'm sure there are exceptions both ways, and just as sure there is likely somebody I'm forgetting, but by and large, I'd say that statement is true.
And we've had some truly awful players over the years going back to at least Buckley that finished their contracts. The ones that are even worse are the rare exceptions that get cut before they play out their contract.

ChilliJon posted:

Yes it is. We're talking about Janis!, right,

Always. It is the pre-season after all.

FLPACKER posted:

Davis has explosiveness & body type that none of our other receivers have, I don't see him getting cut. 

Not gonna happen.

Updated after watching Broncos game last night. Toughest part is not knowing extent of many of the injuries, e.g. Bulaga, Lowry, Perry, Barclay, Biegel, Adams, etc. But here's my current take:

OFFENSE (25)

QB (2): Rodgers (33), Hundley
Practice Squad (PS): Hill
Cut: Callahan
Comments: Hundley looked just OK I thought last night. But played behind a poor OL, both pass and run blocking. I think he's a good #2 for us, but wish we had an experienced backup that's played in regular season games, been successful. We'll likely see only Hill and Callahan vs. the Rams.

HB (3): Montgomery, Williams (4B), Mays (7A)
PS: Jones (5B)
Cut: Phillips, Stanback
Comments: Jones had a nice run last night, but Mays appears more powerful. Either way, expect we'll be able to keep both.

FB (1): Ripkowski
PS: Kerridge
Comments: Kerridge surprisingly missed a Special Teams tackle, but will be good to have him on Practice Squad if needed.

WR (7): Nelson (32), Cobb, Adams, Davis, Janis, Dupre (7B), Yancey (5A)
Suspended: Allison (1st regular season game)
PS: Clark, McCaffrey
Cut: Crockett, Pearson
Comments: Odd that Yancey didn't play last night, while Dupre made just a late entry and McCaffrey played extensively. Maybe McCaffrey makes 53, they try to place Yancey on PS.

TE (3): Bennett (30), Kendricks, Rodgers
Cut: Peck, Byrd
Comments: No change, no surprises here.

OL (9): OT's Bakhitari, Bulaga, Spriggs, Murphy, G's Taylor, J. Evans (33), Patrick, C's Linsley, Barclay
PS: OT Pankey, G Gray, G/C Amichia (6)
Cut: OT Leff, G's McCray, T. Evans
Comments: Without knowing exactly when Bulaga or Barclay will be back, along with Spriggs' shocking ineffectiveness, I'm using 3 of the 10 Practice Squad slots for OL.

DEFENSE (25)

DL (6): Daniels, Clark, Lowry, Jean-Francois (30), Ringo, Price
IR: Adams (3)
Cut: Lunsford, Fanene, Heurtelou
Comments: Hopefully Lowry back if not for opener then very soon after. Thus keep 6 on 53 to open the season. Ringo's come on nicely. Coaches seem to value Price. Hate to put Adams on IR. Read he was doing some individual practicing, putting weight on his foot, but guessing he's still too many weeks away from being ready to make part of opening day roster. Target to bring him back during the season.

LB (8): OLB's Matthews (31), Perry, Elliott, Fackrell, Gilbert, ILBs Thomas, Ryan, Martinez
PS: OLB Calvin
PUP: Biegel (4A)
Cut: OLB Letuligasenua, ILB's Tripp, Heiman, Mathews, Talley
Comments: Hopefully Perry's ankle and Elliott's back nothing to be concerned about. But pushes me to keep Gilbert on 53, unfortunately place Biegel on PUP to start season.

DB (11): CB's House, King (2A), Rollins, Randall, Hawkins, Gunter, S's Clinton-Dix, Burnett, Jones (2B), Brice, Evans
PS: CB Pipikins
PUP: CB Goodson
IR: CB Waters
Cut: CB's Brown, Pringle, Holmes, S's Whitehead, Taylor
Comments: Pipkins didn't play well last night, which likely solidifies Gunter's position. I think got to keep 11 total DBs with Burnett and Jones expected to play a lot at ILB.

SPECIAL TEAMS (3)

PK Crosby (32), P Vogel, LS Goode (32)
Cut: LS Hart
Comments: Guessing they'll live with Vogel's inconsistency, hoping he improves on that, unless a much better punter becomes available.

Really liked the way Mays ran last night but thought all three rookie RBs acquitted themselves well and could see that one shaking out a number of ways. Agree with your WR cuts and see Dupre moving to PS when Allison returns. Think Gunter probably makes the cut but he could be expendable due to his limitations (speed). 

I think you nailed it Schumer.   The one variable not accounted for here is who becomes available from other teams after the cut.    I hope we give a long look at any Vet OL that could provide better depth.   

Murphy looks like he can handle swing tackle but we have nothing for backup interior OL.  I know they won't walk away from Spriggs yet, so he is going to be just an empty roster spot and thats why we need 9 this year.   That leaves Barclay and Murphy as your top backups.  Barclays has proven time and time again he can't play at a decent level.  Got to upgrade that.     

BRAINDED, I totally agree with picking up a vet OL.  Boy, another Tootie Robbins or Bruce Wilkerson would look really good right now.  

Hard to argue that GB doesn't need to look for better depth on the OL. I believe Bulaga is dealing with a similar injury Barclay suffered against Philly. Ankle.  That was over two weeks ago and I don't think Barclay has practiced since. So Bulaga may be on the shelf for a few weeks. I like Murphy at RT if Bulaga can't go week 1. But things are really thin right now. 

Spriggs not even being serviceable at this point has put the team in a difficult position, that's for sure. Other than the whiff on the one QB sneak I thought Murphy played reasonably well.