I can't escape the feeling that if he's there at 29 and Ted passes, he will regret it.
What do you all think?
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Yes. Hard to pass up a guy who has the athleticism, measurables, work ethic and bloodline to succeed in this league. Only knock I hear is that he's still learning the OLB spot. And if he was lazy that would matter, but does anyone think for a second he's not going to work day and night to get up to speed? If he works even just half as hard as JJ, he'll be a damn good player. Something tells me he'll be gone though. Too few holes in his game to go that late.
YES!!!
I have a feeling he will pass also, but you never know. He's not a perfect prospect, but he's ascending. He won't last long past 29 if TT does pass on him. Clay wasn't perfect either coming out, TT opted to catch him while he was still raw.
If he is there and the Packers don't take him, a full-out revolt will ensue in the state of Wisconsin.
He absolutely should be the pick if there- especially if it is known that they're going to move Matthews inside to prolong his career. Watt is not as good now as he'll be.
When and where exactly did the narrative start that Clays career would be extended by playing inside? Because it's patently bull****.
Truth is there will be a few defensive players in the draft that Ted passes on at 29 that will become good pros. Just need to find one of those day one contributors.
TJ is an incredibly safe pick. Endless effort and energy. But he may not be the best option on the board on day one.
I can see passing on TJ, it's Fumagalli that Ted must take with #29
I don't think Fumagalli will be available at 29.
I vote EITHER. Take him or not. I don't care.
I still think Thompson would prefer to take a cornerback first, linebacker second. Based on how Thompson has drafted in the past I'd guess his preferred choice at #29 would either be Watt or Jordan Willis if the pick was a linebacker. I think players like Charles Harris and Tyus Bowser would slot just below Watt/Willis. Picking between Watt and Willis is as near as a complete toss-up situation as you can get.
I'm guessing the experts won't be flipping a coin when it comes to Watt and Willis. Just a hunch.
I think feelings are a tricky thing.
I know a coin flip trick
I don't think Watt will be there, but if he is, I wouldn't mind at all if the Pack pulled the trigger there. I think he's just one of those guys like Clay Matthews that maybe is a little bit of a late bloomer and his best football is ahead of him. And the football that was behind him was pretty danged good, it's just that I think he's going to be even better as time goes on. No matter what team takes him, I think they are going to be happy with that pick for many years if he stays healthy.
Ghost of Lambeau posted:I think feelings are a tricky thing.
Not that tricky.
Oh, it's tricky
ChilliJon posted:When and where exactly did the narrative start that Clays career would be extended by playing inside? Because it's patently bull****.
What the f*ck does narrative have to do with it? I believe he cannot handle a full season at OLB, his legs can't take it. I believe he's going to play inside more often than outside going forward.
So yes, I think they should think about a succession plan in his position. And yes, TJ Watt is good enough to play the position in Green Bay.
I'm not enough of a draftnik to know if he's worth it at 29, but I would LOVE to have T.J. The way he played this year, I really think he will be a good one.
They absolutely need to address the OLB position whether it's Watt or someone else. The odds of CMIII staying healthy (and actually Perry for that matter too) are very slim.
They need more talent and depth at CB as well and if I had to guess that's where Ted goes at 29 assuming no trades or other deals are made.
I don't give a **** if it's TJ Hooker. They need an impact player on defense.
Whether or not TT takes another CB at 29 will depend on who is left. He'll take the best available, be that a CB, OLB or whoever we haven't been paying attention to.
Ted is going to trade up for a running back and blowz all u minez
DH13 posted:Whether or not TT takes another CB at 29 will depend on who is left. He'll take the best available, be that a CB, OLB or whoever we haven't been paying attention to.
Yep. There could be a better a prospect there at 29 that Ted opts for. If Takk McKinley is there it's hard to believe he wouldn't be the guy. Ted seems to favor guys with high athletic upside in round 1, if TeeJay What is the best athlete at 29 then he will be the guy.
El-Ka-Bong posted:Ted is going to trade up for a running back and blowz all u minez
Thanks Jabrill.
Henry posted:I don't give a **** if it's TJ Hooker. They need an impact player on defense.
Not sure TJ Hooker would make much of an impact to this roster, but Heather Locklear sure made an impact in my teenage pants back in the day.
TJ or Takk in the first round. All offense in the rest of the draft. Our window is closing for another SB with Rodgers. We also need to find replacements for Jordy and Cobb, soon.
Yes. A good pass rush makes every DB look better. Take one early and take one later. I'd venture they need six guys to man the position and they have maybe four on roster.
A Watt /Daeshon Hall or a Barnett/Biegel-type combo would be nice.
Well, if he goes to the Vikings or the Bears I will not longer call him TJ. I will refer to him simply as T. T Watt.
Subtle.
He has a way with initials.
I can see TT giving Jabrill Peppers' versatility a long look. He's a coverage upgrade over Hyde in the slot. He's an upgrade over Hyde in run support though not a huge upgrade. Micah was pretty good in run support. He's a massive punt return upgrade over Hyde. He's a likely replacement for Morgan Burnett at SS when Morgan hits FA after this year.
Hungry5 posted:Subtle.
I don't know what you mean.
I think he's also give this defense some sorely needed leadership. Guys like Perry, Daniels, Haha, Burnett, CMIII, etc. all seem like great lockerroom guys and teammates, but none have taken on that leadership role since Woodson left. I think Watt could step into that role eventually.
ChilliJon posted:I can see TT giving Jabrill Peppers' versatility a long look. He's a coverage upgrade over Hyde in the slot. He's an upgrade over Hyde in run support though not a huge upgrade. Micah was pretty good in run support. He's a massive punt return upgrade over Hyde. He's a likely replacement for Morgan Burnett at SS when Morgan hits FA after this year.
If he looks for a Burnett replacement I hope he finds a true FS in the Nick Collins mold rather than another guy who is a better run stuffer than centerfielder. Dix has been an adequate centerfielder, but he's not an aggressive ballhawk like Collins or Earl Thomas. Same for Burnett and Hyde. Budda Baker in R1 (if he's there) or Tedric Thompson in R4 would be better options IMO, those guys are strong in coverage with flexibility to cover the Slot. Baker especially would have an instant impact at FS.
Jabril Peppers? No thanks
Can't cover in space and honestly is not as good of an athlete as people think he is.
Tschmack posted:Jabril Peppers? No thanks
Can't cover in space and honestly is not as good of an athlete as people think he is.
I see what you mean...
Even though it got called back... DAMN PEPPERS ïŋ―ïŋ―ïŋ―ïŋ― https://t.co/LRPjOYb60I
â Abdul Memon (@abdulamemon) October 8, 2016
"Not as good an athlete as people think he is". That's fantastic.
I would feel better about Peppers at 29 if there was a defined position I knew he would accell at on Sundays. I think he's a valuable athletic slot guy that can be moved around. Blitz from the slot. He's got the ability to flip field position on a consistent basis as a punt returner.
The question is. Do you go with someone that can help improve a few positions by doing them well or do you go with a guy like Watt or Jordan Willis that have the potential to do one thing (put the QB on the ground) or Baker (safety) or Chidobe Awuzie (versatile corner) extremely well?
Like I mentioned yesterday. There should be a lot of difference makers on defense at 29. It will SUCK if that pick doesn't work out given the likelyhood a few defenses players selected between 29 and 45 are going to become productive starters. Ted best do his homework on that first pick. It's kind of a big one. And I'm glad I'm not him.
Why? Don't you think you're smarter than TT? Most everyone else here thinks they are.....
I think I could last one year as a GM. That seems about time every uninformed decision you've made starts to become impossible to dodge any longer.
But that would be one sweet year! Except the part about the franchise being left in a smoldering pile of ashes.
Then become GM of the Vikings.
They would probably improve...
I know I am a better cribbage player than Ted, does that count?
You know or you think?
Does EKB even think before he posts?
Well, I know and can beat Patty at cribbage, so ipso facto..
Can Peppers cover the entire field for 6 seconds? If not, go with the pass rusher.
El-Ka-Bong posted:Well, I know and can beat Patty at cribbage, so ipso facto..
RIP Patty, keep makin cookies for Ted.
Gil Brandt's top prospects list posted at NFL.com:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/...2017-nfl-draft-51100
24. OLB-Takkarist McKinley
26. CB-Adoree' Jackson
27. CB-Quincy Wilson
28. CB-Kevin King
30. CB-Tre'Davious White
32. CB-Chidobe Awuzie
37. ILB-Haason Reddick
40. OLB-Jordan Willis
43. CB-Marlon Humphrey
46. ILB-Zach Cunningham
47. OLB-Tim Williams
49. OLB-Ryan Anderson
60. OLB-T.J. Watt
61. CB-Jourdan Lewis
65. CB-Teez Tabor
67. OLB-Tyus Bowser
If the Packer's board looks anything like that, they won't be picking T.J. Watt at #29. If Haason Reddick is available at #29, I'd be forgetting about the CB and OLB need in a hurry (but Reddick will not be available at #29).
I've given up on the Reddick dream. I don't think Humphrey is there either. Lot of names on that list are going to be productive pros. Gotta pick one of those guys. It's not an immediate need but Zach Cunningham is super intruiging as long term solution at ILB.
Tre'Davious White and Watt might be the best available. Gotta go with Watt, gamble that you're catching an ascending talent rather than a 1 year wonder. At worst you're getting Shea McClellin, which isn't what you want from a R1 player, but Shea did just start for a championship defense. At best you're getting Clay Matthews, maybe better.
I wonder if McClellin's recent success had to do with coaching . . .
McClellin only started 4 games for New England and his defensive snap count was 380 (36.4% of the defensive plays). There were 14 players that played more defensive snaps for the Patriots last year. I very much doubt Belichick's experiment with McClellin goes anywhere because he's a bad player and has been a bad player since he stepped foot in the league. If T.J. Watt gives Thompson any hint that he could be the next Shea McClellin, then Thompson can't use anything higher than a fifth round pick on him.
He was also a Special Teams stud for them. I'd be curious to see how his career would have developed had he had any continuity at all in coaching and position. Stupid Bears started him out at strong-side DE with his hand down and head-up on massive RTs.
I think NE let him settle in to 1 position and he was surrounded by superior talent...better/smerter coaching also helped. Chicago needed him to be Urlacher's replacement, that wasn't going to happen. The point wasn't that McClellin is any good, I think he was a role player among many role players for NE, the point was that he's smart, he's high effort, he's athletic, so worst case scenario with Watt you're getting a similar player...that's a better floor than we have seen from a lot of players (Ahmad Carroll anyone?). Not first round quality, but every 1st rounder carries that kind of risk. In the end I think Watt is more likely to be a Ryan Kerrigan type player who has just under 60 sacks in 6 years, definitely worth a 1st rounder.
It's almost like the coaches knew how to get the most out of his talents . . .
It's like McShay vs. Kiper, if neither watched tape nor had a clue.
Shea McClellin is a ****ing terrible NFL player. Be glad Chicago took that failure in front of New England before GB tried to jump in front New England. New England ended up with Chandler Jones (I recall Boris blowing a head gasket when NE selected Jones) and GB settled for Nick Perry. So everything worked out for the best. Especially the part about the Bears selecting a ****ty player and feeling like they got over on everyone as it was happening.
What I'm trying to say is **** Shea McLellin.
heyward posted:It's like McShay vs. Kiper, if neither watched tape nor had a clue.
heyward posted:It's like McShay vs. Kiper, if neither watched tape nor had a clue.
GB settled for Nick Perry
Or, that's who Thompson wanted and he got CHI and NEP to think he wanted Shea or Chandler?
#bestgifs The race is for 2nd.
http://www.packersnews.com/sto...eighs-watt/100661890
"I'm sure if he's anything like his brother, he'll have a drive and work ethic that can't be matched." --Clay Matthews
Or can't be measured either, or overvalued.
I obviously say YES.
From the "it's kind of like an early draft selection" file. GB signed Max McCafferey on December 20th. 6'2" 200lb with 4.40 speed.
Its going to be interesting to see how he does with a full offseason with the offense.
His Pro Day numbers really weren't bad...4.46 40, 36.5" vert, 10' 2" broad, 4.15 shuttle, 7.09 3-cone, but only 9 reps on bench. Those numbers are pretty similar to what Jordy put up at the combine/pro day in 2008. Numbers in college weren't very impressive, but I would say based on his physical talent and bloodlines he has a chance to contribute.
His QB at Duke was Thomas Sirk. Not good. He's someone to keep an eye on in camp. Not that Ted would pass if the right guy fell in his lap but GB has 9 WRs on the roster today. Just something to keep in mind if Ted actually goes a draft without selecting a WR.
ChilliJon posted:From the "it's kind of like an early draft selection" file. GB signed Max McCafferey on December 20th. 6'2" 200lb with 4.40 speed.
Its going to be interesting to see how he does with a full offseason with the offense.
Does Darren Sharper have any kids on the Vikings or the Bears?
He's going to go top 25. If the Packers want him, they'll have to trade up for him. He performed on the field and his measurables and combine performance were both good as well. Combine that with his pedigree.. i'd be shocked if he slipped past the 20-25 mark.
If we stand pat, we might be looking at Jabrill Peppers to replace Hyde.
To answer the question. Yes. I would also trade up into the 18-20 area (if possible and for reasonable amount) to get him similar to the situation when we drafted Clay. He is worth it.
I really don't have much confidence in Ted when it comes to drafting defensive players though.. but there is always hope he doesn't screw it up.
ChilliJon posted:His QB at Duke was Thomas Sirk. Not good. He's someone to keep an eye on in camp. Not that Ted would pass if the right guy fell in his lap but GB has 9 WRs on the roster today. Just something to keep in mind if Ted actually goes a draft without selecting a WR.
So....JuJu Smith-Shuster at #29? :-)
With Bennett, Kendricks and DikPlod also on roster there's no shortage of numbers at receiving positions, for sure.
Diggr14 posted:To answer the question. Yes. I would also trade up into the 18-20 area (if possible and for reasonable amount) to get him similar to the situation when we drafted Clay. He is worth it.
I really don't have much confidence in Ted when it comes to drafting defensive players though.. but there is always hope he doesn't screw it up.
Happy 4/20 day.
What is the significance of 4/20 day? Was that the day when Clay Matthews was drafted?
Herschel posted:ChilliJon posted:His QB at Duke was Thomas Sirk. Not good. He's someone to keep an eye on in camp. Not that Ted would pass if the right guy fell in his lap but GB has 9 WRs on the roster today. Just something to keep in mind if Ted actually goes a draft without selecting a WR.
So....JuJu Smith-Shuster at #29? :-)
With Bennett, Kendricks and DikPlod also on roster there's no shortage of numbers at receiving positions, for sure.
Don't forget - GB still has Janis.
Ghost of Lambeau posted:What is the significance of 4/20 day? Was that the day when Clay Matthews was drafted?
That would be happy 4/25 day.
Ghost of Lambeau posted:What is the significance of 4/20 day? Was that the day when Clay Matthews was drafted?
I'm guessing you're over 50.
Yes, that would be true.
4/20 is national weed day. And for those establishments that legally sell marijuana today is their Black Friday.
Seeing how Diggr felt GB might need to trade from 29 to 18 "for a reasonable amount" for a guy that's not on many first round boards becasue "he's worth it". I though maybe he'd gotten pretty deep into his Diamond Glass 18" Typhoon Bong last night ahead of the crowd. So I thought I'd send him a happy 4/20 note. I'm a people person.
Diggr does not require foreign substances to produce his rich, hot takes
Thanks for the explanation. I am glad you are a people person. 
I am not sure I would move up either. Players have a way of "falling" into TT's lap. I am sure he will use the precious #29th pick to take the desperately needed long snapper that might just happen to "still" be available.
El-Typhoon-Bong posted:Diggr does not require foreign substances to produce his rich, hot takes
Just substances that are home grown then?
I can't envision any scenario GB trades up in the first round. Maybe if Reddick or Fournette fall far enough? Even then there is too much depth 25-40 to give away assets to move up a few spots.
4/21 - National Random Drug Test Day.
I can't see them trading up either. Diggr is probably right (ugh that felt gross to say) that Watt won't be available, his athleticism alone will get him drafted high. Same thing with guys like Charles Harris, Charlton, Barnett, Thomas, Garrett, McKinley, etc. Big athletic pass rushers don't last long regardless of what draft sites say. Same thing with tall/fast CBs, big athletic LT's, etc., the high end athletes with prototypical size are the ones who get snapped up early.
The earliest Watt is going is 21 to Detroit. And that depends on who's still on the board. Next up is 28 to Dallas. That's really the spot Watt is being projected to land. I still don't see Ted giving away assets to move up. I'm holding out hope Marlon Humphrey drops to 29. Tim Williams or Tarell Basham at the end of round 2? Yes please.
I could see him going as high as 9 to Cincy. I'd say he's in play at 11 (NO), 15 (IND), and 16 (BAL) also.
Subtle.
NFL players (not already in a stage of drug program) are tested once a year for marijuana. Testing window starts today. Yes, 4/20.
â Andrew Brandt (@AndrewBrandt) April 20, 2017
Cruel!
Pass rushers who could play the 3-4 OLB spot and might garner a first-round grade:
Myles Garrett
Solomon Thomas
Taco Charlton
Derek Barnett
Charles Harris
TJ Watt
Tak McKinley
Tim Williams
Ryan Anderson
Jordan Willis
Tyus Bowser
You could make an argument that Harris and Watt are competing for the #5 spot on the list, though Garrett, Thomas and Charlton are full-on DL capable also. Still, that's 11 potential first-round-graded pass rushers with Pittsburgh and New Orleans drafting behind Green Bay. There are also the Illinois guys, Carl Lawson, etc. who are all high-round-worthy also so teams could be tempted to wait until the second for either a corner or a pass rusher if they also need a more scarce position.
Herschel posted:...also so teams could be tempted to wait until the second for either a corner or a pass rusher if they also need a more scarce position.
I think occasionally this happens, but everyone needs a pass rusher every year. Very rarely is a team so stocked with pass rushers that they could pass on elite talent like Harris or Watt.
What about the vikings?
True, but there are also a couple of potential superstar safeties available, for example, to look at early in the first.
Rueben Foster, Hassan Reddick, Jarrad Davis, Zach Cunningham. All ILB's that are likely first rounders. Quite the year for edge, ILB, and corners.
And a pretty brutal year for potential good Left Tackles. Ramczyk, maybe Bolles and.......?
Ram isn't talked about being a 1st round pick in other years drafts.
ChilliJon posted:Rueben Foster, Hassan Reddick, Jarrad Davis, Zach Cunningham. All ILB's that are likely first rounders. Quite the year for edge, ILB, and corners.
Love Jarrad Davis. He has that Bobby Wagner quality that every team needs on D.
Jarrad Davis is a bad man on the field. Super high character off it.
The Packers don't even have Lindsay Wagner quality on D. 
Davis will get picked 24th by the Raiders.
Yeah being in Denver I've heard all about the LT problem in this draft. Robinson, Ramczyk, Bolles, and Lamp are the top project OL and none project all that well. And the two positions that are deepest, are positions the Broncos are stacked: DB and outside pass rusher. They could draft one of those OL and have a day one starter, or they could draft a DB or edge rusher and have him be 4th on the depth chart. Its an interesting "need" vs "BPA" argument, one where the locals are convinced that Elway has ALWAYS gone BPA in the first.
Lucky for the Packers, they need edge rushers and DBs the most, so it's be a surprise if they didn't go with one in the first (preferably edge rusher) and the other in the second.
There are three guys I might bust a splooge over with the Packers first pick: Hassan Reddick, Chidobe Awuzie or Watt.
Ghost of Lambeau posted:Thanks for the explanation. I am glad you are a people person.
I am not sure I would move up either. Players have a way of "falling" into TT's lap. I am sure he will use the precious #29th pick to take the desperately needed long snapper that might just happen to "still" be available.
Dude...you can't under estimate the value of a franchise long-snapper...lol
Pistol GB posted:I can't escape the feeling that if he's there at 29 and Ted passes, he will regret it.
Wow.
Yeah, no. I ain't escaping that feeling any time soon.
Ouch.
Thompson is about as bad of a GM at evaluating defensive talent as there is.
They need to move on from him. Not taking Watt at 29 was insane.
I wasn't sure TJ Watt would be an all pro until TT passed on him.
If Watt would've played for a different school would all you homers be so up in arms about it? Doubt it!! Some of the comments about the situation are just plain silly, others are down right stupid!!
I made that point all the way at the top of the thread.
Of course, Badger fans still think Ron Dayne and Montee Ball were misused.
The good news is that Biegle is still out there....the dream lives!
Hoping he ends up like Clay Matthews brother who got the nickname Fredo from Philly fans.
So you want him to fail because TT passed on him? That seems rather.....shallow.
Agreed. I will be rooting for TJ myself. Yet another Wisconsin boy done well. I've met TJ, but I don't really know him as a person.
Badger fans should be glad they had 2 first round picks, regardless of who they went to. That helps recruiting tremendously. Biegel is a borderline 3rd/4th rounder, so they may get a guy in on Day 2, the other 3 or 4 guys will go late or UDFA.
The Badgers could have 32 first round picks and idiot kids will still choose Ohio State and Michigan.
An Ohio State wins. Wisconsin? Well, they won the B1G title game this past season, didn't they?
How many arrests has Urban Meyer recruited? That would be a fun chart.
I think Urban Meyer has stock in private prison corporations.
Herschel posted:So you want him to fail because TT passed on him? That seems rather.....shallow.
We don't watch football because of all the high character.
I heard YA Tittle once raised his voice to a puppy. Only because the puppy got in his face and called him a ghey. Obviously not a northern puppy.
The Browns are having a damn fine draft.
Actually it was because the puppy cracked a joke about when Thanksgiving is.
