Unreasonably Early Rock Moster

       
  
Kooky!

Henry & Hungry5,

 

It a hypothetical that is irrelevant really, and not worth bashing around.

 

We are going to be a better defense regardless. I think Barrington's issues are game speed, getting off of blocks, some recognition and coverage. If he can improve his coverage that would be a big plus...

 

And, we have other talent ready to step in if that doesn't happen. We have run base about 30% of the time anyway in regular season, if not less. I have complete confidence in the players that I favor, and if some stick, great. If not, well, they will have time to adjust their roster before the trade deadline and with castoffs from roster cuts.

 

While ILB has been problematic for us, we have young talent there that is quicker and better than last season. CB is more important anyway, and they look to have made solid upgrades there. Our Safeties should be improved. If we can get some heat on opposing QBs we will be in business, and our edge rushers seem better than last season.

 

With strict D&D, we have to not only wait for other players to develop, but risk them being picked up from our PS. I hope Tavarus Dantzler can stick, but I have doubts. I think next season he could prove to be a player. It is for those reasons I am wanting to keep younger talent secured, vs. others who may have reached their ceilings.

I liked Dantzler. Packers cut him yesterday. Maybe he'll get back on the PS.

Perry's problem is not the fact that he's playing from 2 vs 3 point stance, it's health. Plain and simple. He can play in this scheme, he just hasn't put together a healthy string of games where he can develop any kind of rhythm or consistency. He can't gain any confidence and improve as a player because he's not out there. Scheme is irrelevant for him, he would struggle the same way if we played a 4-3. I don't know the reason he's had health issues, maybe he's just really unlucky, but that is the only thing holding him back. When he's been in there, he's played well...defends the run better than any OLB we have and can get to the passer.

I completely disagree with this with all due respect GD.

 

It seems to be the prevalent perception of him though. I believe he contributed less than 2 tackles per game, and he only had 8.5 pressures in 417 snaps, to go with 3 sacks in 15 games played, his healthiest season. That's about 1 sack every 5 games? 2 of those in a blowout of CHI. 

Overall the discussion about ILBs won't matter as much if the DL and OLBs are doing their job. If our ILBs stay clean then Barrington, Palmer, Clay, Ryan, whoever can be effective...maybe not elite, but good enough. The long run vs the Pats was a prime example of a DL and OLB getting pushed out of the play and in to the ILBs, that can't happen for this D to be successful. It seems as though the Safeties are going to be very active this season, which is fantastic, but that leaves fewer options to make a play if something breaks down at the 1st and 2nd levels. guys at the 1st level have to get their jobs done...no getting pushed around or driven out of the play. If that happens then we could have Ray Lewis and Pat Willis in their primes back there and our D still wouldn't be effective. Everyone depends on everyone when it comes to D.

You keep basing your arguments solely on stats which is crazy. Stats don't reflect everything that goes on in a game by which you can judge effectiveness.

Not solely. I watch plenty of games, often two or three times to see what happened and how.

 

I guess, when it comes down to it, I want the ballers in there. The ones who make the game changing plays. Force the fumbles. Bat balls away. Make INTs. Recover fumbles. Pressure the QBs. Get sacks.

 

I know what you are saying, but the numbers don't always lie. Sometimes, they are just the numbers, and have to be taken for what they are. The dude has done dick.

 

Do I want him to improve? Absolutely. But, I'm not going to say he's done all the great stuff for us when he really has not.

Speaking of...has anyone noted Raji so far?  He was lighting it up last training camp before the injury but I haven't heard much of him so far this preseason/camp.

 

For the most part I agree.  If health wasn't a issue, I think he would be able to perform more consistently and probably play more snaps if he were a 4-3 DE.  It isn't a knock on TT, Perry has the athleticism to convert to 3-4 but his overall skillset is better suited to 4-3.  TT took the best option available.  It doesn't make a lick a difference from either standpoint if he's not healthy.  

 

We'll always have Indy.

 

 

 

Textbook all around. Terrible refereeing.

Hey DH13,

 

Raji seems to have been pushed around a lot this preseason. Tough to gauge though, as he may just be going through the motions being a vet. He's probably playing it safe. I'm really hoping he picks it up this season. As GD said, we'll need him to keep blockers off our backers. I think he will.

 

Who wouldn't love to see more of that, cuqui?

Considering TT had given AJ Hawk five-years, $33.75 million, and Brad Jones 3 years, $11.75 million that's not too bad for a guy who can actually play at a high level, especially when the last of those four years can be voided with a minimal cap hit.

33.  I guess we'll see.

He's better suited to the 43, but he's not ill suited for the 34. Scheme doesn't really matter much when it comes down to whether you can play...if you can play then you can play, no matter the scheme. Julius Peppers can play no matter what scheme it is, same for Mike Daniels or Clay Matthews or whoever. In-game reps and film study are the most crucial elements, IMO, for player development. Perry is lacking in the former and he hasn't developed to where they wanted him to be at this point. He's not a bum though, he has a lot to offer this D right now...maybe not as a starter, but as a rotational player he can be a big help.

I think that's a truism for elite players but not for average players.  Every team that switches in the offseason from a 43 to a 34 or the other way always needs to find some new guys that fit the new scheme better.  Some players can make the transition, other can't.  Isn't that why Kampman was released?  I've seen several writers claim Peppers would have had an even bigger career if he had been playing 34 OLB his whole career.  The average 34 OLB body type is a tweener in a 43.  The outliers like CM and JP are talented enough to where they don't need to fit that mold but most are not. 

 

But I agree with you on Perry's value and effectiveness in Capers D.  He has shown plenty ability but can't stay on the field.

I just personally think he would be a really stout 275 DE with good speed off the edge.  This is the whole crux of the argument, if he stayed healthy I think he would've had a really good career as a 4-3 DE.

I'm with you. I do wonder if the Bears had taken Perry over McClellin that both guys would have been in much better positions to play to their strengths.

Bradford Bushea

Yeah Hank I think ultimately his career would have probably taken a different trajectory if he had gone to a 43 D and stayed healthy. The learning curve is steeper for some DEs that convert, others it's an easy switch. Ultimately a player is a player regardless and if he has the mental makeup then he will make it work regardless of scheme. There some exceptions, Aaron Kampman is a good one, but I think in Kampman's case he was making the switch at 30 on the downside of his career. Had he made the switch at 23 or 24 I think he and GB would have found a way to make it work. Julius Peppers made the switch late in his career because he's a freak athlete. Point is, had Perry stayed healthy and gotten those reps, I think he ends up as a pretty productive player in the mold of LaMarr Woodley.

Interestingly enough - Perry's best move so far is a bull rush.

By lining him up outside, it gives him more room to generate speed and power

Lining him up tight on the OT takes away his best stuff. Watch how far out he lines up at times, almost a Wide 9. This is done to make it easier to set the edge in the run game and to give even more bull to his big-ass bullrush.

 

Look where they line him up in the NASCAR pressure package, same thing

 

"It's our NASCAR package," said coach Mike McCarthy. "We get all four of our elephant types on the field at the same time. It's been very productive."

 

"An elephant for us could maybe be in certain schemes an outside backer," Capers said, per the Green Bay Press-Gazette. "He could be a defensive end in other schemes. You'll see an elephant align in a lot of different spots (along the line)

 

Perry, Peppers, Neal all play the Elephant role which is part of a 4-3 scheme

He needs to team up with Prantzler and get some sled work before next season.

McGinn opines that Mike Pennel might be the most improved defensive player from last season. I agree. Kid has played well. Here's hoping he continues to show.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports...294z1-324031241.html

Pennel seems like a guy who has just needed to grow up and realize his physical talent. Hopefully that's the path he's heading down, he has so much potential.

We could use a lot of that GD. No doubt! No matter who is playing inside LB, they will benefit greatly with solid play from the NT and DE. I'm hoping for some really big play, game changing play from Mike Pennel this year.

Pennel has really improved from last year. Seems like he's doing a better job of staying low and using his hands. What's worth noting is that he's looked good and made plays against the opponents "Ones". 

What I like about Pennel is that he seems to get the fact that he has the opportunity of a lifetime in front of him and is willing to work and listen in order to get it. He has a couple of strikes already so maybe that's what it took. Being an UFDA also sends this home.

 

If only all signees and vets had this attitude. Hopefully he can sustain this should he keep stacking successes and join the entitled class.

Concur with the last 4 posts on Pennel

 

His issue was putting it all together and putting in the work to get better as a professional. His former team mate, Luther Robinson doesn't have the skills that Pennel has but he had the testicular fortitude to work at it. Glad to see Mike step up to the plate, not the first time he's faced a challenge:

 

"Has had to deal with adversity throughout his entire life, as he grew up in a single-parent home and survived a bout with childhood cancer when he was just 3 years old…"

 

 McGinn just posted this article on Mike Pennel

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports...294z1-324031241.html

 

"I think next to (Mike) Daniels he's their best defensive lineman right now," an NFC personnel man said. "He gets blocked; everybody gets blocked. But he tries hard, makes things happen and is really good at the point of attack."

 

 

Go Packers

Here's my 2015 Roster Prediction - just a guess...

Not a bad list. Andy Mulumba is in, Crockett is out and you've got Gaston listed twice. My guess is White is also in over Pinkard.

I think one of Gaston should be Boyd.

Or Pennel. I'd go with just 5 RB's and add a 6th DL including both Boyd and Pennel.

 

Where did you find that?  don't think they can IR-DFR until the season starts. Right now I think he'd have to be PUPed.

I missed no Mike Pennel and he's got a spot locked up with the way he's playing.

Isn't Quarless still waiting on the league for discipline?

It is part of Trophies long post...............

Ah, don't see that happening. If he's injured and they want to keep him around they either PUP him or put him on season ending IR.

PUP is only for players who didn't practice at all. No Packer is eligible for that list.

Right.