I guess I do not understand the logic that under TT the Packers have been fortunate that players stepped up but under Sherman it was just good GM work that the team played well. Sherman coached/managed a vetern team built mostly by Ron Wolf, and had no regard for overall team depth. The Packer team that won the Super Bowl last year might not have been the best team in the league, but they were by far the deepest and I think anyone with any sense would conceed that great team depth should lead to a consistant winner.
quote:Originally posted by ammo:
The were more than just a hot team, they were clearly the best team of all the playoff teams.
During the playoffs, you are right.
That is not the point that was made though. I still think Ted has much to prove, and he will have the oppurtunity to do so, especially in terms of consistency. It's an interesting time for sure to be a Packer fan, they really could end up with a legitimate year in and year out force in the NFL like the Patriots and Colts of the last decade. However, the games need to be played first.
quote:Originally posted by Hungry5:might be the only person in the world who does not consider the Packers to be the best team in the NFL last year.
You're crazy. Do you think everyone considers UCONN the best NCAA basketball team? or the Giants team that was referenced here as being the best football team in their respective season? Or even the SF Giants in baseball last season?
The best team doesn't necessarily win the post season tournaments. They are the "best team" during that stretch of games. Sometimes they are also the most fortunate team - blown calls, circumstance, opposing team having an off game. Happens all the time.
quote:Originally posted by Diggr14:quote:Originally posted by Henry:
Please refute that point.
Has Ted built a more talented team than what Sherman did? Yes. Did Ted draft better than Sherman, yep. Did Ted win a superbowl? Yep. But
Again with this 'most fortunate' bullchit.
No matter what way you try to cut it, the Packers were not the 'most fortunate' team last season. They were the best at overcoming adversity.
Let's go ahead and break a quarter of the bones in your body, then replace em with bones of unknown quality. Will you perform your absolute best with bones like that? I don't think so.
Regardless of this, though, Green Bay succeeded. And now the damaged pieces have healed and can be put back in to an already successful team, which places them in a very favorable position. Why you can't seem to see this is beyond me.
No matter what way you try to cut it, the Packers were not the 'most fortunate' team last season. They were the best at overcoming adversity.
Let's go ahead and break a quarter of the bones in your body, then replace em with bones of unknown quality. Will you perform your absolute best with bones like that? I don't think so.
Regardless of this, though, Green Bay succeeded. And now the damaged pieces have healed and can be put back in to an already successful team, which places them in a very favorable position. Why you can't seem to see this is beyond me.
Don't know and don't care what or others think about those other teams and leagues. When telling the story about the 2010 NFL season I can not find anyone other than who does not think the Packers where the best team.
quote:Originally posted by Diggr14:quote:Originally posted by Hungry5:
You're crazy. Do you think everyone considers UCONN the best NCAA basketball team? or the Giants team that was referenced here as being the best football team in their respective season? Or even the SF Giants in baseball last season?
The best team doesn't necessarily win the post season tournaments. They are the "best team" during that stretch of games. Sometimes they are also the most fortunate team - blown calls, circumstance, opposing team having an off game. Happens all the time.
Golly gee then. How do we measure the best teams? Call a nerd stat cruncher?
Sure, but there are occasions where one kind of knows the best team did not win it all.quote:Originally posted by pablopackerfan:
Listen. The whole goal of every team, GM, coach and player in the NFL and every fan of the NFL for that matter is to win a Super Bowl. That's the standard, the pinnacle, the only thing that matters. The team that wins it is the champ. The best of the entire NFL that year. OK? That's it. That's all. And Sherman didn't win a Super Bowl. Although, I think he did win a supper bowl once at the Bolo Inn. And good ole TT did.
Period.
Now, honestly, that's so obvious that I feel like a fukkin moron for having had to type that up.
As one example, look at the Patriot team that won the SB and beat the Raiders via the tuck rule to do so. As another example, I remember the fine Patriot team in 1976 that was JOBBED against the Raiders (no blatant pass INT call against Vilappiano as well as the roughing the passer call).
I think the Seahawk team was jobbed against the Steelers.
It happens.
I'm sure Kraft and Belichick would rather have the best regular season record (i.e. "respect") than a championship.
The Patriots sucked when they beat the Rams. Then they went on to win all those meaningless Superbowls.
They were a team on the rise.quote:Originally posted by Henry:
The Patriots sucked when they beat the Rams. Then they went on to win all those meaningless Superbowls.
You're right, I don't see any correlation there Capn' Tinfoil.
Once you're in the playoffs you only need to be the best team for sixty minutes and everything else is meaningless. The Packers were the best team in league when it mattered.
quote:Originally posted by phaedrus:
As one example, look at the Patriot team that won the SB and beat the Raiders via the tuck rule to do so.
I think the Seahawk team was jobbed against the Steelers.
If the Seahawks were the best team, they would not be in a position where the refs could allegedly take a victory away from them
If the Raiders were the best team, they wouldn't have been in a position where a tuck rule could push them out
Every team faces adversity from 1000 different angles, every team suffers questionable calls
The ones that prevail and win the Title are by definition the best teams
Some fans seem to be focused on which team has the coolest, bestest roster or some other stats in deciding who is best. That sounds like college football
In the NFL - Winners win, losers go home
That's why they play the games, that's why they keep score and that's why they have a big shiny Trophy to make sure everybody knows who was the best team
( except Urlacher)
quote:Do you think everyone considers UCONN the best NCAA basketball team? or the Giants team that was referenced here as being the best football team in their respective season? Or even the SF Giants in baseball last season?
Yes I do think every one of those teams were the best because THEY ACTUALLY WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!!
1 + 1 = 2
quote:Originally posted by michiganjoe:
Once you're in the playoffs you only need to be the best team for sixty minutes and everything else is meaningless. The Packers were the best team in league when it mattered.
Yeah! What the hell? Can't these guys be good during the season and then suck fat balls in the playoffs like Bert and Shermy?
this thread is incredible. i cannot believe this is still being debated.
Yes. The more attention you give the spoiled brat the more noise he makes.
ya know, I've heard this place compared to a home or a bar. And I think the comparison falls apart here because in any bar I've ever been to Diggy would have been shamed into staring at his beer mug reflection or I'd have gotten up and smashed his fingers with my beer mug and then shoved them into his yawning yapper with the business end of the bathroom plunger.
quote:Originally posted by phaedrus:They were a team on the rise.quote:Originally posted by Henry:
The Patriots sucked when they beat the Rams. Then they went on to win all those meaningless Superbowls.
yes, yes they were
and also a team on the "cheat"
....filming opponents walk-through practices before a Super Bowl and videotaping defensive signals...
I wonder how may cows diggr could have fed with all the straw he used to create his strawman?
Thought we were comparing GMs?
quote:
Originally posted by Diggr14:
As far as Sherman goes, I think he probably could get another job in the NFL as a Head Coach. Because of his lack of success in the Draft, I do not see him getting a GM job again.
So you just said Sherman would never get another GM job. If TT left the Packers, either by his own choice or forced out, do you really think no other team would hire him as GM?
Hey Diggy, why did you dodge this one?
quote:
Originally posted by Diggr14:
As far as Sherman goes, I think he probably could get another job in the NFL as a Head Coach. Because of his lack of success in the Draft, I do not see him getting a GM job again.
So you just said Sherman would never get another GM job. If TT left the Packers, either by his own choice or forced out, do you really think no other team would hire him as GM?
Hey Diggy, why did you dodge this one?
Diggr loves Favre but Favre only had one Super Bowl win. So was it Favre's fault or the GM not doing his job getting the players?
TT is one of the Top 5 best GM's in football. He has an unbelievable eye at scouting talent. The Packers had a super draft(again). I love the fact he was able to sign Saine out of OSU who was a freaking talent too.
The Packers are completely loaded at nearly every position. I like the fact that he also let HighSchool sign else where and will pickup a probable 5th-6th round pick in return.
TT is one of the Top 5 best GM's in football. He has an unbelievable eye at scouting talent. The Packers had a super draft(again). I love the fact he was able to sign Saine out of OSU who was a freaking talent too.
The Packers are completely loaded at nearly every position. I like the fact that he also let HighSchool sign else where and will pickup a probable 5th-6th round pick in return.
quote:If the Seahawks were the best team, they would not be in a position where the refs could allegedly take a victory away from them
Huh?
So if the refs made no impact and consequently the Hawks win, they are the best team.
But, the Steelers are the best team.
That's just not gonna hold up.
quote:Originally posted by Diggr14:
Thought we were comparing GMs?
Ok, let's compare GMs - but on an equal basis. In other words MS the coach had 2 years that weren't as good. One while Wolf was GM - whom you obviously liked. And one in TT's first year - when TT was largely evaluating the team that MS built - which went 4-12. So if you want to compare the 4 other years when MS was both HC & GM, which by the way happened to be his 4 best years, I think it only fair to compare that against TT's 4 best years. So we are comparing apples & apples.
Just remember that two of MS's best year had 10-6 records which you indicate isn't very good. And if you throw in the two other bad years, then 4 of the 6 years he was HC weren't very good by your standards. He did have 2 12-4 years. Those were his 2 best.
TT had a year he was 13-3 in. Pretty good huh? His other best year was a 11-5 year. Not bad either. Combined they equal MS 2 best years. But I am getting off track here.
A comparison of their 4 best years is as such:
MS - 44-20
TT - 42-22
Fairly comparable. Not much difference. So much for MS being the better GM. That was regular season. What matters is the playoffs and winning championships. In that,
MS winning % = .333 and 0 SB wins.
TT winning % = .714 and 1 SB win.
I'll take TT thank you. It really isn't close.
quote:Originally posted by TD:
Diggr loves Favre but Favre only had one Super Bowl win. So was it Favre's fault or the GM not doing his job getting the players?
TT is one of the Top 5 best GM's in football. He has an unbelievable eye at scouting talent. The Packers had a super draft(again). I love the fact he was able to sign Saine out of OSU who was a freaking talent too.
The Packers are completely loaded at nearly every position. I like the fact that he also let HighSchool sign else where and will pickup a probable 5th-6th round pick in return.
I agree with all that. But who is HighSchool? I must have missed something here.
Something else that doesn't get talked about a lot is the Packer position coaches ability to coach up guys on a weekly basis and get them ready to play. That parade they had going thru the ROLB spot last year probably had Kevin Greene putting in a lot of OT.
Nickname for Colledge 
. Not our concern any longer.
"Luck".
Not the solid scouting of TT and the pro personnel department which recognized available players who could be productive in the system.
Not the good coaching of those players getting them not only ready to play, but ready to play well (and in a hurry).
"Luck".
The only "luck" involved was the bad luck (losing 15 players to IR and other key contributors for stretches) which made the above scenario necessary in the first place.
. Not our concern any longer."Luck".
Not the solid scouting of TT and the pro personnel department which recognized available players who could be productive in the system.
Not the good coaching of those players getting them not only ready to play, but ready to play well (and in a hurry).
"Luck".
The only "luck" involved was the bad luck (losing 15 players to IR and other key contributors for stretches) which made the above scenario necessary in the first place.
2004 Final Packer Roster:
4 Brett Favre QB 6-2 224 35
7 J.T. O'Sullivan QB 6-2 220 25
8 Ryan Longwell K 6-0 202 30
9 Bryan Barker P 6-1 205 40
11 B.J. Sander P 6-4 217 24
16 Craig Nall QB 6-3 228 25
21 Bhawoh Jue CB 6-0 199 25
22 Nicolas Luchey FB 6-2 273 27
23 Mark Roman S 5-11 200 27
24 Joey Thomas CB 6-1 195 24
26 Jason Horton CB 6-0 193 24
27 Michael Hawthorne CB 6-3 204 27
28 Ahmad Carroll CB 5-10 185 21
30 Ahman Green RB 6-0 218 27
31 Al Harris CB 6-1 185 29
33 William Henderson FB 6-1 251 33
37 Chris Johnson CB 5-11 197 25
40 Tony Fisher RB 6-1 222 25
42 Darren Sharper S 6-2 210 29
44 Najeh Davenport RB 6-1 250 25
48 Vonta Leach FB 6-0 241 23
50 Hannibal Navies LB 6-3 249 27
53 Paris Lenon LB 6-2 245 26
54 Steve Josue LB 6-2 230 24
56 Nick Barnett LB 6-2 233 23
59 Na'il Diggs LB 6-4 237 26
60 Rob Davis LS 6-3 283 35
62 Marco Rivera RG 6-4 307 32
63 Scott Wells C 6-2 300 23
65 Mark Tauscher RT 6-4 320 27
67 Grey Ruegamer C 6-4 305 28
68 Mike Wahle LG 6-6 304 27
71 Kevin Barry T 6-4 335 25
72 Brad Bedell OL 6-4 306 27
74 Aaron Kampman DE 6-4 284 24
75 Grady Jackson NT 6-2 347 31
76 Chad Clifton LT 6-5 330 28
77 Cullen Jenkins DL 6-3 292 23
78 Steve Morley LG 6-7 332 23
80 Donald Driver WR 6-0 192 29
81 Andrae Thurman WR 5-11 192 24
82 Ben Steele TE 6-5 250 26
83 Antonio Chatman WR 5-9 184 25
84 Javon Walker WR 6-3 215 26
85 Sean McHugh TE 6-5 262 22
88 Bubba Franks TE 6-6 265 26
89 Robert Ferguson WR 6-1 210 24
90 Colin Cole DT 6-2 320 24
91 R-Kal Truluck DE 6-4 260 30
94 Kab. Gbaja-Biamila DE 6-4 252
97 Cletidus Hunt DT 6-4 310 28
98 Kenny Peterson DT 6-3 295 25
99 Corey Williams DE 6-4 310 24
4 Brett Favre QB 6-2 224 35
7 J.T. O'Sullivan QB 6-2 220 25
8 Ryan Longwell K 6-0 202 30
9 Bryan Barker P 6-1 205 40
11 B.J. Sander P 6-4 217 24
16 Craig Nall QB 6-3 228 25
21 Bhawoh Jue CB 6-0 199 25
22 Nicolas Luchey FB 6-2 273 27
23 Mark Roman S 5-11 200 27
24 Joey Thomas CB 6-1 195 24
26 Jason Horton CB 6-0 193 24
27 Michael Hawthorne CB 6-3 204 27
28 Ahmad Carroll CB 5-10 185 21
30 Ahman Green RB 6-0 218 27
31 Al Harris CB 6-1 185 29
33 William Henderson FB 6-1 251 33
37 Chris Johnson CB 5-11 197 25
40 Tony Fisher RB 6-1 222 25
42 Darren Sharper S 6-2 210 29
44 Najeh Davenport RB 6-1 250 25
48 Vonta Leach FB 6-0 241 23
50 Hannibal Navies LB 6-3 249 27
53 Paris Lenon LB 6-2 245 26
54 Steve Josue LB 6-2 230 24
56 Nick Barnett LB 6-2 233 23
59 Na'il Diggs LB 6-4 237 26
60 Rob Davis LS 6-3 283 35
62 Marco Rivera RG 6-4 307 32
63 Scott Wells C 6-2 300 23
65 Mark Tauscher RT 6-4 320 27
67 Grey Ruegamer C 6-4 305 28
68 Mike Wahle LG 6-6 304 27
71 Kevin Barry T 6-4 335 25
72 Brad Bedell OL 6-4 306 27
74 Aaron Kampman DE 6-4 284 24
75 Grady Jackson NT 6-2 347 31
76 Chad Clifton LT 6-5 330 28
77 Cullen Jenkins DL 6-3 292 23
78 Steve Morley LG 6-7 332 23
80 Donald Driver WR 6-0 192 29
81 Andrae Thurman WR 5-11 192 24
82 Ben Steele TE 6-5 250 26
83 Antonio Chatman WR 5-9 184 25
84 Javon Walker WR 6-3 215 26
85 Sean McHugh TE 6-5 262 22
88 Bubba Franks TE 6-6 265 26
89 Robert Ferguson WR 6-1 210 24
90 Colin Cole DT 6-2 320 24
91 R-Kal Truluck DE 6-4 260 30
94 Kab. Gbaja-Biamila DE 6-4 252
97 Cletidus Hunt DT 6-4 310 28
98 Kenny Peterson DT 6-3 295 25
99 Corey Williams DE 6-4 310 24
Screw championships. EVERYONE knows the best team is the team that has the best urinals. 
I was so stoked when Sherman was able to trade Marques Anderson to the Raiders. What a coup!!! and then... wasted the picks trading for a nobody who was gonna be released anyway. DH13 is correct: end of discussion.
quote:Originally posted by Coach:
2004 Final Packer Roster:
Jesus, I had to stop reading after a dozen names.
quote:Originally posted by PackerHawk:
Jesus, I had to stop reading after a dozen names.
You read further than I did...yikes
My favorites:
Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
quote:Originally posted by Coach:
2004 Final Packer Roster:
7 J.T. O'Sullivan QB 6-2 220 25 - the throw-in for the McKenzie trade. At least the second round pick netted Collins. ROTTT.
11 B.J. Sander P 6-4 217 24 - speaks for itself
16 Craig Nall QB 6-3 228 25 - Harry Dunn
21 Bhawoh Jue CB 6-0 199 25 - Simply horrible
24 Joey Thomas CB 6-1 195 24 - Joey JoeJoe Thomas - best known with the GBP for getting into a fist fight with Hwy 28.
27 Michael Hawthorne CB 6-3 204 27 - one of the worst CB's I've ever seen. Not Jerry Holmes/Estus Hood bad, but bad.
28 Ahmad Carroll CB 5-10 185 21 - speaks for itself
50 Hannibal Navies LB 6-3 249 27 - Horrible, horrible player and the start of three stiffs at LB on this list
53 Paris Lenon LB 6-2 245 26 - stiff 2
54 Steve Josue LB 6-2 230 24 - stiff 3
82 Ben Steele TE 6-5 250 26 - hands of Steele. Recovers one ST's fumble and stays on the team despite being terrible
83 Antonio Chatman WR 5-9 184 25 - Perfected the 'run the KO back to the 20 and fall down' return
89 Robert Ferguson WR 6-1 210 24 - Harry Dunn
91 R-Kal Truluck DE 6-4 260 30 - Shermy takes the two picks he pilfers from duh Raiders and immediately turns them into this stool.
97 Cletidus Hunt DT 6-4 310 28 - good decision on that awesome contract
Thanks for the trip down memory lane.