12

That and Love has to prove he can play.  Pretty sure Rodgers feels little threat from Love and as Bak mentioned he loves the competition.

@Henry posted:

It doesn't have anything to do with Rodger, it could be any QB.  You need solid players to win.  Maybe Begelton shows something.  Lazard gets another year under his belt.  Funchess isn't in ambulance all season and plays average ball.  Yes, that's better but it still completely ignores what the passing game in conjunction with the run game could be.

You guys keep getting the WR depth chart wrong and I suspect its part of the general unhappiness around here.
EQ was gone all season and thus out of sight/ out of mind. 

Adams/ EQ/ Lazard & Funchess/ MVS / Begelton

You'll all come around soon enough. 

I'd be ecstatic if EQ can jump to #2.  It'll be nice to have him back.  I'm kind of hoping Begelton can show something so the whole Funchess/MVS thing doesn't become an issue.

Well, there goes the QB room.

From packers.com:  

No surprise. Manny seems like a good guy, hope he catches on somewhere. 

I'm going to miss Biblical Jesus.

Just for shits and giggles lets say the Packers go 12-4, make the playoffs and go 1-1.  Pretty good 2020 season.  2021 rolls around and Aaron is on fire, Packers are 12-1 but Aaron suffers a season ending injury in game 14. Jordan Love comes in and leads the Packers thru the playoffs and a Super Bowl victory!!  Hey look, Aaron Rodgers just got a 2nd Super Bowl ring.  So what if he wasn't the QB for the game, it's a team win and he still gets a ring.  Don't laugh, it could happen.

As long as one of those wins is a come back against the vikings so their fans can get that o shit feeling again. As much as they are gloating about their draft now you know they are panicking for the future

I don't think AR gives a crap about how Favre treated him and not wanting to repeat that. AR is going to do AR. Now, whether that's help Love or not is unknown right now. I highly doubt AR is zooming Love and saying, "Hey, let's go over the playbook." AR knows Love isn't going to supplant him this year, and probably not next year either. It's all on AR: play at or near MVP level for the next several years and he can finish his contract in GB if he wants, Love be danged. 

@Satori posted:

You guys keep getting the WR depth chart wrong and I suspect its part of the general unhappiness around here.
EQ was gone all season and thus out of sight/ out of mind. 

Adams/ EQ/ Lazard & Funchess/ MVS / Begelton

You'll all come around soon enough. 

Agree on getting EQ back. He was coming along before getting injured.

I know Henry and Pakrz said Begelton was a "CFL UDFA scrub" when the Packers added him - but I think he could surprise. 

A guy named Begelton is destined for x4 fame or infamy.

This is inconceivable...

Career TD passes to 1st round picks:

Brees 104
Brady 105
P Manning 293
Favre 127
Marino 84
Rivers 35
*Rodgers 1
Roethlisberger 69

*Marcedes Lewis 2019

— Cole Cubelic (@colecubelic) April 27, 2020

Link

Really good discussion with Greg Cosell on the Rich Eisen show about the AR/Love situation. Agree completely with his point about AR playing sandlot and leaving a lot of throws on the field.

Its kinda weird how that stat is presented / received.
On the one hand some will use it as an indictment of the Packers front office.
On the other hand, they accumulated so much talent without spending a 1st, its evidence of a very talented front office

Jordy, Jennings, Driver, Cobb, Jones, Adams, Cook, Jimmy, Aaron Jones, Eddie Lacy and a few others. That's a lot of skills

So I guess it just comes down to your general POV in terms of how you view that particular stat.

Stat strikes me as pretty meaningless. If you want to claim they haven't given him the talent that's fine but they've found it in other rounds (primarily the second).

GASP !  No 1st rounderz !!!!!   GASP !

AR was first round.

@Satori posted:

Its kinda weird how that stat is presented / received.
On the one hand some will use it as an indictment of the Packers front office.
On the other hand, they accumulated so much talent without spending a 1st, its evidence of a very talented front office

Jordy, Jennings, Driver, Cobb, Jones, Adams, Cook, Jimmy, Aaron Jones, Eddie Lacy and a few others. That's a lot of skills

So I guess it just comes down to your general POV in terms of how you view that particular stat.

I'm being told by a fan of both Mannings that this is evidence of both Mannings making the most of their talent where Rodgers hasn't. Apparently it's a steep challenge to throw to 1st round picks, as opposed to later round weapons. The hatred toward GB and AR is so ridiculous they can't even put forth a consistent argument.

That SI cover is from what, 2010-2011?  MM's decline as a HC paralleled the atrition of that group.  The only guy on the roster over the last 5 years that would belong in that group would be Adams.  One guy.

The FO was "lights out" early on.  And "nobody's home" later.

@Satori posted:

You guys keep getting the WR depth chart wrong and I suspect its part of the general unhappiness around here.
EQ was gone all season and thus out of sight/ out of mind. 

Adams/ EQ/ Lazard & Funchess/ MVS / Begelton

You'll all come around soon enough. 

And isn’t there ALWAYS growing pains for WR’s??  How long before my boy friend begins to feel comfortable with them.  May-be this year, all these guys will come through for us.......and hey there’s always my Division III boy.  

@DH13 posted:

That SI cover is from what, 2010-2011?  MM's decline as a HC paralleled the atrition of that group.  The only guy on the roster over the last 5 years that would belong in that group would be Adams.  One guy.

The FO was "lights out" early on.  And "nobody's home" later.

Probably due to FO attrition losing Dorsey, Schneider, and McKenzie. Makes a big difference. Ted should have thrown lots of money at Scot McGloughan to join his staff when he was fired by SF. He went to Seattle and won a SB with Schneider. Plenty of other talented FO people have been fired over the years and probably should have been courted to join. Maybe they were, but Ted’s staff needed some fresher and more talented personnel than Wolf and Highsmith.

Let's not forget DD was a 7th round pick...all is not lost...if even one of our receivers improves this season, and there's no reason to think they can't, we could be a top offense again.

We will need some defensive linemen to show some chops, though, besides Kenny.

I think Rodgers has two years left in GB, max.  Love will not sit for 3 years like Rodgers did, that's not what happens in the NFL now.  Most QB's start right away.  Mahomes was the last one to really sit and he only sat a year.

Most people here have been frustrated with some of Rodgers decision making over the last few years.  His stats haven't been typical Rodgers since he broke his collarbone (hasn't been a top 10 passer).  Some of that you can blame on MM and perhaps MLF's game plan, but there's no doubt he improvises a lot, both to our benefit and detriment (thankfully more of the former, but still).

I also think the draft is future looking, always.  With a new coach, you can't look at the draft in any other way than filling out the wishes of the coaches game plan moving forward.  5 wide sets and sandlot football are not his game plan.  Gute has drafted accordingly.

Gute also is not shy about letting players go before their time may be up.  Bulaga is an example of that, so is Matthews, Cobb and Jordy.  Aaron is in another league, but Gute seems to be a guy who is willing to let players go two years too soon than two years too late.

If I had to make a prediction on what happens with 12 and Love...Rodgers plays a shortened 2020 season (because of coronavirus) and plays a full 2021 giving Love a year and a half on the bench, and if Love is who the Packers think he is, Rodgers is either traded or retires.  If the former, my guess is a trade is for a player and some picks, probably not a bunch of 1st's.  Similar to the Alex Smith deal to Washington.  Other clubs will want to clear cap space for Aaron.

All of this of course assumes Love is the QB they think he can be, which of course remains to be seen.

@Chongo posted:

This is inconceivable...

Career TD passes to 1st round picks:

Brees 104
Brady 105
P Manning 293
Favre 127
Marino 84
Rivers 35
*Rodgers 1
Roethlisberger 69

*Marcedes Lewis 2019

— Cole Cubelic (@colecubelic) April 27, 2020

Rodgers also threw one to the Bengals 2016 first round pick William Jackson.

I can't believe what I'm reading. 

You mean Rodgers didn't throw a TD pass to Justin Harrell or Derrick Sherrod?!?!?

@Satori posted:

Its kinda weird how that stat is presented / received.
On the one hand some will use it as an indictment of the Packers front office.
On the other hand, they accumulated so much talent without spending a 1st, its evidence of a very talented front office

Jordy, Jennings, Driver, Cobb, Jones, Adams, Cook, Jimmy, Aaron Jones, Eddie Lacy and a few others. That's a lot of skills

So I guess it just comes down to your general POV in terms of how you view that particular stat.

Of those who left, what did they do without Rodgers?

Jennings - Worse
Cobb - Same 
Jones - Worse
Cook - Better
Lacy - Worse

Only Cook fared better without Rodgers and I attribute that to MM. 

@BrainDed posted:

Of those who left, what did they do without Rodgers?

Jennings - Worse
Cobb - Same 
Jones - Worse
Cook - Better
Lacy - Worse

Only Cook fared better without Rodgers and I attribute that to MM. 

Cook and J. Finley were the only TEs the Packers have had over the last 20 years that can really scare a defense down the seam. Cook was only healthy for part of the year and Finley's career ended early (but he was such a head case he'd have probably held out for a trade or big money anyway).  Guys like Bubba Franks, Ed West, and a couple of others were decent, but the Packers TE position has held them back many times over the last two decades. 

The 96 Packers offense was elite because they had a Hall of Fame level receiving TE in Keith Jackson. The older Keith Jackson the Packers had was a still a red zone force and that's what Jimmy Graham was supposed to be. 

@PackLandVA posted:

Rodgers also threw one to the Bengals 2016 first round pick William Jackson.

Fun Fact: that was 1 of only 2 Pick 6's Rodgers has thrown in his career. For reference Josh Allen, Deshaun Watson, Kyler Murray, Jimmy G and Sam Darnold have all also thrown 2 in their young careers while Drew Brees is the active leader with 27. 

Fun Fact Part Deux: Both Pick 6's were to the last name Jackson. Tarnard Jackson (TB) and William Jackson (CIN) were the culprits. 

That stat (TDs to R1 WRs) adds further evidence to Rodgers as the GOAT.

Or, it supports a theory of "it doesn't matter where or how you get them, just get football players".

There's too much focus on the 1st round. The Packers have drafted the following 12 guys in the top 3 rounds in the last 30 years. 

Ty Montgomery (3), Davante Adams (2), Cobb (2), Jordy (2), James Jones (3), Jennings (2), Terrence Murphy (2), Javon Walker (1), Ferguson (2), Derrick Mayes (2), Freeman (3), and Brooks (3). 

That's a really good group of WRs filled with a number of Pro Bowl level guys, but no Fall of Famers. Terrence Murphy had potential, but was forced to retire with spinal stenosis. Other than than, there were three poor picks (Montgomery, Ferguson, and Mayes) but even these guys were serviceable back of the roster guys - just not starting level. Adams, Cobbs, Jordy, Jennings, Walker, Freeman, and Brooks were all Pro Bowlers at least once and James Jones was also above average. 

Despite the fact they've only used 1 first round pick on a WR in the last 30 years, it's been a decent group. Of course, the QBs made them better, but most of those guys would have started for most NFL teams. It's not like Favre and Rodgers were working with total stiffs. Sterling Sharpe is by far the best WR the Packers have lined up in the last 30 years, but there's a few Packer (but not NFL) HOFers at WR the last 30 years. 

The key take home is that with some exceptions, the WRs they drafted in the first three rounds worked out well and the WRs they drafted after the 3rd round in that period never really panned out. The biggest exception, of course, is Driver (7th round). Bill Schroeder (6th round) was a whipping boy on the old chat site, but he was over 900 yards in 3 different years. Corey Bradford (5) was serviceable. But that's about it out of 30 post-3rd round WR picks in the last 30 years.

https://www.pro-football-refer.../teams/gnb/draft.htm

I think you have to invest some higher picks to get the athleticism you need to be a top level starting NFL WR. The Packers haven't drafted any WRs in the last two drafts and haven't drafted one in the first 3 rounds in the last 5 drafts. I trust that Gutey will get another guy in the next 3 months to give some depth there. 

This might be the closest thing to an answer we get on his state mind on this topic...probably ever. Rodgers doesn’t give a shit about manufactured drama. 

@Chongo posted:

This is inconceivable...

Career TD passes to 1st round picks:

Brees 104
Brady 105
P Manning 293
Favre 127
Marino 84
Rivers 35
*Rodgers 1
Roethlisberger 69

*Marcedes Lewis 2019

— Cole Cubelic (@colecubelic) April 27, 2020

Are you sure this list is not 1st round playoff pick-6?

I was surprised at the 127 number for Favre throwing TDs to 1st round picks. I hadn't thought there was a lot beyond those thrown to Sterling Sharpe. Here's a partial list I could assemble. I came up with 128, so maybe one of the TDs I have for one of these guys was thrown by a backup QB in mop up, but I think this is the entire list. 

Sterling Sharpe - 42

Bubba Franks - 32

Javon Walker - 22

Keith Jackson - 11

Percy Harvin - 11

Dustin Keller - 3

Mark Ingram - 3

Randy Moss - 2

Andre Rison - 1

Darrell Thompson - 1

The best Favre-related TD story is to a 5th round pick. His first TD to Kittrick Taylor in 1992 to win his first game in Green Bay was the only TD pass Kittrick Taylor ever caught in the NFL. 

Exactly!!!  Just the presence of very good WRs like Jennings, Nelson, Cobb and Jones in itself made it prohibitive to draft a WR in the first round.  2019 and 2020 are probably the ONLY drafts since 2007 that it would have made sense to draft a WR.  

Just for thought, WRs, TEs, and RBs drafted in the second and third round since 2005 (when Rodgers was drafted):

WRs: 7 (Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, Adams, Jones, Montgomery, Murphy)

TEs: 4 (Finley, Rodgers, Sternberger, Deguara)

RBs: 4 (Jackson, Green, Lacy, Dillon)

That comes out to about 1 offensive skill position player per draft since Rodgers was drafted in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.  

I think this shows just how good Rodgers is.  He didn't need first round WRs to be great.  He turned good WRs into great WRs.  And that's what you should expect when you pay your QB top 3 money.  

@MichiganPacker2 posted:

There's too much focus on the 1st round. 

Ty Montgomery (3), Davante Adams (2), Cobb (2), Jordy (2), James Jones (3), Jennings (2), Terrence Murphy (2), 

That's a really good group of WRs filled with a number of Pro Bowl level guys, but no Fall of Famers.

The key take home is that with some exceptions, the WRs they drafted in the first three rounds worked out well and the WRs they drafted after the 3rd round in that period never really panned out. The biggest exception, of course, is Driver (7th round).

Agree the focus on just 1st round WRs Rodgers has had to throw to is, at best, a deceptive argument given how many good 2nd rounders (and a 3rd rounder) he had to throw to ... in years past.

But, but, but, the record reveals that the Pack has in recent years gone away from using premium picks (until this season) on the O generally and WRs specifically:

Murphy 2005 (injury wipeout)

Jennings 2006

J. Jones 2007 (3rd rounder)

Nelson 2008

Cobb 2011

Adams 2014

Since 2014 ... the only WR selection has been a 3rd round pick on Montgomery who played a handful of games at WR before being switched to RB -- where he was complete Meh.

In fact, the only offensive players taken in rounds 1-3 during the 5 drafts between 2015 and 2019 were Montgomery (a JAG RB), Spriggs (bust), Jenkins (great rookie year), and Sternberger (injured and no contribution in his only season). 

Then again, it is hard to focus on WRs when you're wasting round 1-3 picks on so many DBs like Randall, Rollins, Josh Jones, and (it looks like) Josh Jackson.

@SteveLuke posted:

In fact, the only offensive players taken in round 1 during the 5 drafts between 2015 and 2019 were Montgomery (a JAG RB), Spriggs (bust), Jenkins (great rookie year), and Sternberger (injured and no contribution in his only season). 

Whattttttttttttttttttttt?

@SteveLuke must've crammed walnuts up his ass

None of those 3 players were first rounders & the Packers definitely drafted more than 3 offensive players in 5 years throughout the entire draft.

Not quite sure what he meant. 

@GBFanForLife posted:

Whattttttttttttttttttttt?

Rounds 1-3 is what I meant but did not write.

@CUPackFan posted:

He turned good WRs into great WRs.  And that's what you should expect when you pay your QB top 3 money.  

Cool. Can we get a good WR then?

Good point