Henry posted:GrainBelt66 posted:
What's the word of the day for half the idiots on this board?
Penis.
Henry was one that I respected the most.
That was your first mistake.
Fedya posted:Henry was one that I respected the most.
That was your first mistake.
I would have to agree with this statement.
Henry posted:Again, the biggest point is he is the HEAD coach who is making all the decision on the field yet he absorbs none of the blame. He's going to be a pivot point for all the new changes on this team. It is easier for you guys to roll out blame to a QB who has clearly shown what he can do and means to this team than McVince. It just amazes the hell out of me.
But you’re doing the same thing you’re criticizing others for. You’re pointing the finger 100% at him for mistakes and 0% for success, it can’t be both. He deserves blame for things, so does Rodgers and TT and Capers and other players and coaches. It is a team sport afterall.
Also no one is blaming Rodgers for everything. He might throw a lot of perfect passes, but he’s not a perfect QB, he makes mistakes also and he deserves blame when the offense were paying him 33 million a year to run, doesn’t work...which has happened.
This thread will come into focus by week 10. It’s also not entirely crazy to think that the majority of the arguments made from all sides will turn out accurate. Packers are a fairly complicated team due to Rodgers talent.
I’ll only add this. I think Mike has made things vastly more difficult for himself over the years for reasons only he’ll be able to speak to and explain someday. Which he probably won’t do.
Pakrz posted:WTF did I just walk into here?
Nothing, nothing at all
Nor will the dark one in the Northeast. But he doesn’t have to due to his jewelry. Gotta win a couple more. Let’s do this!
Fedya posted:Henry was one that I respected the most.
That was your first mistake.
Probably
I still respect, everyone is entitled to an opinion. Even jaymo
everyone is also deserving of respect until they prove otherwise, Vikings fans.
some just want a fight
Not the right time to have the conversation obviously, but I’m good with moving on from MM when the time comes. What’s this, his 12th season? Winning one SB with the world’s greatest player at the most important position isn’t exactly stellar. As successful as GB has been with wins and playoffs, they have normally fallen short of expectations each year. We saw exactly what GB looked like after subtracting one great player. Not good.
Pakrz posted:Not the right time to have the conversation obviously, but I’m good with moving on from MM when the time comes. What’s this, his 12th season? Winning one SB with the world’s greatest player at the most important position isn’t exactly stellar. As successful as GB has been with wins and playoffs, they have normally fallen short of expectations each year. We saw exactly what GB was looks like after subtracting one great player. Not good.
This. He's Tom Coughlin right now. Fear he's passed his expiration date.
Grave Digger posted:Henry posted:Again, the biggest point is he is the HEAD coach who is making all the decision on the field yet he absorbs none of the blame. He's going to be a pivot point for all the new changes on this team. It is easier for you guys to roll out blame to a QB who has clearly shown what he can do and means to this team than McVince. It just amazes the hell out of me.
But you’re doing the same thing you’re criticizing others for. You’re pointing the finger 100% at him for mistakes and 0% for success, it can’t be both. He deserves blame for things, so does Rodgers and TT and Capers and other players and coaches. It is a team sport afterall.
Except I haven't. McVince gets his past laurels and I give him OC credit continually but being kinda okay really doesn't fit with the theme of cleaning house and winning Superbowls with Rodgers. That's my biggest point. It's not that McVince is complete horse**** (other than his management skills) but just like TT and everyone else who got the axe he probably should've been shown the door.
Like I've previously said, I can understand trying to maintain some kind of continuity but you're also sticking with a guy that's burned out and will likely coast on what Roders gives him. Anyone that says otherwise is fooling themselves. Also like I said, if McVince has been stripped of his ability to make horrible management decisions then super fantastic pie in the sky great! I have no doubt having Philbin back will make a big difference. Siamese OCs. Just that simple.
The 100% opinion part is me saying there is no way in hell I would ever consider him a "great" NFL coach ever again. He can have success in his glorified OC role, and I hope he does, but there is no way in hell trotting out those stats and trying to compare him to Belichek, etc. will mean jack squat diddly.
I mean for **** sake's, even Rodgers took a pot shot at him about the scheme a couple years ago.
Okay, I agreed with Henry on another thread but I'll disagree with him on MM. Not that I want to have a major discussion that's already been hashed out here, (okay, maybe) but a couple of things:
1. MM in the past was able to adapt when things didn't pan out. He has gotten away from that to become too stuck in his way the past couple of years. He needs to get back to adapting. "We do what we do" should not be a motto.
2. BB is the best coach out there. Petersen may take over that spot, but we won't know that for a couple of years. Consistency is a large part of that. MM has been consistent in getting GB to the playoffs, but he needs to take another step to take them further in the playoffs. I don't know that I want to play musical coaches to find another guy with that consistency at a minimum -- at least just yet.
3. AR has gotten away from what made him (and MM) most successful. Those short timing routes, hitting open guys a split second before they are actually open, opting for a checkdown, etc. Watch the video. You'll see the window open on a short route and the receiver is there, but AR waits to see if the second window opens. By then, the line can't hold up (need work there), and AR has to move out of the pocket or the DBs catch up to the receivers (more speed needed, hopefully VS and/or Moore). Then Jordy or Cobb or Adams would bail him out by being the best in the league at adjusting or AR just runs and gains yards. If AR goes back to hitting guys on shorter routes, he moves the chains in two downs. He may not get the whopping big yards or the pub that comes with the playground moves, but he a) makes solid gains, b) helps his line, c) lets his WRs catch-and-run, d) saves the wear-and-tear on his body. Yards-per-completion is all of a sudden a gold standard, but YAC is just as valuable. When the team was really on top, everyone sang the praises of the team's YAC. Go back to that and ignore the fantasy game.
4. MM needs to get on AR's case and rein him in, much as Holmgren did to Favre.
5. MM is on a basically one-year trial contract. Get it done or get gone. I don't know that I like that, as the team knows he may be a lame duck and people tend to think "the grass is always greener." It makes me wonder how the team will perform this year...
In short, keep MM until he either falls flat on his face -- which may be this year -- or not.
Fandame posted:
3. AR has gotten away from what made him (and MM) most successful. Those short timing routes, hitting open guys a split second before they are actually open, opting for a checkdown, etc. Watch the video. You'll see the window open on a short route and the receiver is there, but AR waits to see if the second window opens. By then, the line can't hold up (need work there), and AR has to move out of the pocket or the DBs catch up to the receivers (more speed needed, hopefully VS and/or Moore). Then Jordy or Cobb or Adams would bail him out by being the best in the league at adjusting or AR just runs and gains yards. If AR goes back to hitting guys on shorter routes, he moves the chains in two downs. He may not get the whopping big yards or the pub that comes with the playground moves, but he a) makes solid gains, b) helps his line, c) lets his WRs catch-and-run, d) saves the wear-and-tear on his body. Yards-per-completion is all of a sudden a gold standard, but YAC is just as valuable. When the team was really on top, everyone sang the praises of the team's YAC. Go back to that and ignore the fantasy game.
This I agree and disagree with. Yep, Rodgers will roll out of the pocket on 2nd or 3rd reads but to say the quick slant stuff has been called in on a regular basis only for Rodgers to ignore it doesn't float. There was a big element of predictability. You can definitely attribute good defenses simply covering up receivers but the whole thing was stale. Bad defenses looked better than they were. The Wizard was stale, McVince was stale. Everybody knew what was coming most of the time. So would I say that leads to Rodgers being more freelance on the field? Yes, but as much by necessity as it was for long ball.
edit: And I'm juxtaposing that against last year. Just a lot of the same stale crap with a horrible QB. I think it was finally towards the end of the season when it dawned on McVince that he better be using the run game a hell of a lot more to at least grind some time off the clock.
Disappoints:
A condition by the NFL about the Packers wearing a jersey with the 100 years patch was that it had to 100% exclusive to the NFL. They can't sell the jersey or the patch.
Any jersey you see for sale with the patch, or the patch alone, is fake.
So much for putting a Classic Elite Rodgers 100 jersey next to my 75 Favre jersey.
Thanks NFL.
YATittle posted:Pakrz posted:Not the right time to have the conversation obviously, but I’m good with moving on from MM when the time comes. What’s this, his 12th season? Winning one SB with the world’s greatest player at the most important position isn’t exactly stellar. As successful as GB has been with wins and playoffs, they have normally fallen short of expectations each year. We saw exactly what GB was looks like after subtracting one great player. Not good.
This. He's Tom Coughlin right now. Fear he's passed his expiration date.
I think Tom won 2 with Eli...
I'd give Coughlin the nod over McVince. He used the full toolbox.
NumberThree posted:Disappoints:
A condition by the NFL about the Packers wearing a jersey with the 100 years patch was that it had to 100% exclusive to the NFL. They can't sell the jersey or the patch.
Any jersey you see for sale with the patch, or the patch alone, is fake.
So much for putting a Classic Elite Rodgers 100 jersey next to my 75 Favre jersey.
Thanks NFL.
How about you just use the Favre jersey as a sanitary napkin?
I guess I just disagree Hank. I think Murphy sat down with everyone and said “WTF is the problem” and MM and others probably said they weren’t getting the 53 they wanted, so he stuck MM with a GM that will give him what he wants and is letting the season play out with HIS guys. I think that’s how we got Jimmy Graham, Mo Wilkerson, and quality draft picks over guys with “potential” or bargain basement UFA’s. MM gets labeled as being too rigid, but I think TT refused to deviate from his stance on FA’s and the draft to the detriment of the team. MM has had his fair share of problems and I don’t disagree he’s done a poor job replacing departed staff, but I think it’s fair to say he’s had a big part in the success of this team beyond just being a good OC. This season will be very revealing because I think he’s getting what he wants.
As for who would replace him, James Betcher from Arizona fits your criteria as a quality young defensive mind. I’d also talk to David Shaw, he’s a really good coach. If Jim Harbaugh doesn’t beat Ohio St he may be willing to bolt back to he NFL.
Exceeds: 2018 coordinators
Disappoints: 2017 coordinators
I really think it's going to be apparent how lacking the offensive coaching was in 2017. the last time I truly thought this offensive scheme looked good was when Philbin was here. Probably a bit of hyperbole there but the offensive scheme has been seriously lacking, where the game plan has always been "Rodgers be the greatest and make things happen. Just an overall lack of easy yards. So hopefully Philbin can put in some plays to scheme guys open vs. just expecting each individual to be incredible on every play.
And nothing needs to be said on defense. Dom was garbage so as long as Pettine is average, we should see significant improvement.
121-70 regular season record and a SB. You don’t fire that guy after one bad season, especially when he took his team to the playoffs eight straight years before that one bad season.
Maybe he’s past his prime. Maybe he’s too loyal and hardheaded. Maybe his QB room wasn’t as fine as he claimed it was. Either way, he’s earned the right to try to right the ship....at least for one more season.
Its unfortunate that some of us have already cemented our final opinions on MM. If the Packers disappoint again this year, it’ll be MM’s fault. If they win, then they’ll have won in spite of MM. It’s gonna be a long season for some of us.
Pikes Peak posted:YATittle posted:Pakrz posted:Not the right time to have the conversation obviously, but I’m good with moving on from MM when the time comes. What’s this, his 12th season? Winning one SB with the world’s greatest player at the most important position isn’t exactly stellar. As successful as GB has been with wins and playoffs, they have normally fallen short of expectations each year. We saw exactly what GB was looks like after subtracting one great player. Not good.
This. He's Tom Coughlin right now. Fear he's passed his expiration date.
I think Tom won 2 with Eli...
He won one because MM didn't replace TOG with AR12 to start the 2nd half.
Exceeds - Page 1 of this thread
Disappoints - Pages 2-3 of this thread
Grave Digger posted:
As for who would replace him, James Betcher from Arizona fits your criteria as a quality young defensive mind. I’d also talk to David Shaw, he’s a really good coach. If Jim Harbaugh doesn’t beat Ohio St he may be willing to bolt back to he NFL.
No thanks! I think he burned through his players way too quickly, and now Michigan is tiring of him as well. Too short a shelf-life and too hokey for me!
If MM fails this year, I'd look at Shaw.
ammo posted:Jim Leonard. Well, maybe in 2020.
Trump will be hard to beat.
Tavis Smiley posted:NumberThree posted:Disappoints:
A condition by the NFL about the Packers wearing a jersey with the 100 years patch was that it had to 100% exclusive to the NFL. They can't sell the jersey or the patch.
Any jersey you see for sale with the patch, or the patch alone, is fake.
So much for putting a Classic Elite Rodgers 100 jersey next to my 75 Favre jersey.
Thanks NFL.
How about you just use the Favre jersey as a sanitary napkin?
Gross, not wiping my hands with that. I’ll use it for toilet paper, maybe.
Tavis Smiley posted:Do we employ a x4 Peace Officer?
Yes, Iowacheese - who's on vacation.....4 LIFE.
X4 forum police....No Infraction too small
Exceeds: Josh Jackson and one of the rookie wideouts. Adams if he can avoid the concussions. King if he can stay on the field.
Disappoints: Geronimo is overrated- do not expect much from him. Both Cobb and Monty will continue to miss games due to injuries.
Brak posted:Anyway, I need to focus on the Cocks right now. Biggest game of Muschamp's tenure here.
Have a great weekend everybody!
I'd like to apologize to everybody who had to watch that ****show yesterday. The Gamecocks suck. Jake Bentley sucks. Go pack!
I watched the Cocks lose - they tried after giving up the early pick-6. Georgia is good tho.
There is no shame losing to Georgia. They are loaded. Arizona... now that’s a different story. Holy suck. Preseason hype in Tucson was all about Kevin Sumlin and K. Tate.
I know better.
I'll add the Gators to the "boy my team sucked" list from yesterday.
31 straight wins vs Kentucky...streak snapped.
Fandame posted:Okay, I agreed with Henry on another thread but I'll disagree with him on MM. Not that I want to have a major discussion that's already been hashed out here, (okay, maybe) but a couple of things:
1. MM in the past was able to adapt when things didn't pan out. He has gotten away from that to become too stuck in his way the past couple of years. He needs to get back to adapting. "We do what we do" should not be a motto.
2. BB is the best coach out there. Petersen may take over that spot, but we won't know that for a couple of years. Consistency is a large part of that. MM has been consistent in getting GB to the playoffs, but he needs to take another step to take them further in the playoffs. I don't know that I want to play musical coaches to find another guy with that consistency at a minimum -- at least just yet.
3. AR has gotten away from what made him (and MM) most successful. Those short timing routes, hitting open guys a split second before they are actually open, opting for a checkdown, etc. Watch the video. You'll see the window open on a short route and the receiver is there, but AR waits to see if the second window opens. By then, the line can't hold up (need work there), and AR has to move out of the pocket or the DBs catch up to the receivers (more speed needed, hopefully VS and/or Moore). Then Jordy or Cobb or Adams would bail him out by being the best in the league at adjusting or AR just runs and gains yards. If AR goes back to hitting guys on shorter routes, he moves the chains in two downs. He may not get the whopping big yards or the pub that comes with the playground moves, but he a) makes solid gains, b) helps his line, c) lets his WRs catch-and-run, d) saves the wear-and-tear on his body. Yards-per-completion is all of a sudden a gold standard, but YAC is just as valuable. When the team was really on top, everyone sang the praises of the team's YAC. Go back to that and ignore the fantasy game.
4. MM needs to get on AR's case and rein him in, much as Holmgren did to Favre.
5. MM is on a basically one-year trial contract. Get it done or get gone. I don't know that I like that, as the team knows he may be a lame duck and people tend to think "the grass is always greener." It makes me wonder how the team will perform this year...
In short, keep MM until he either falls flat on his face -- which may be this year -- or not.
This