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The Heckler posted:

I always thought Hundley was meh when seeing him on TV but when I saw him in person in the last game in Detroit I realized he was just terrible.  As you said Tdog he looked like he totally had zero ability to make anything happen.  I am sure he is a great guy and a great teammate but the Packers can't go in to another season with him as the only backup.

"he looked like he totally had zero ability to make anything happen" - that's the real kicker.  in the Dec 23rd game, MM called a great game, I kid you not.  it's just that Hundley couldn't throw a pass that was anywhere near any of the WRs to make a play on it.  guys were open, guys had a step on their coverage...  and the ball was 5-10 yards off the mark.

Foles is much closer in QB to Wentz than Hundley is to AR.  Easier to tweak an offense than to redesign it.  Problem is AR let's you do things in an offense than almost no other QB can do.  And you want to maximize those abilities in said offense.  Unfortunately that success leaves with the QB.  Foles can (and has done in the past) many things Wentz can do, just not all of them and not as well.  Hundley can do very little of the things AR can.  So you really need to find a better QB.  One that can read some D and make some throws past 15yds. 

You don't redesign an offense so a backup, if needed, can run it better.  You find a better backup.

MM screwed himself by sticking with BH because no matter how much he tried to fit a gameplan to his talents, he didn't seem able to execute it.  

I doubt Sudfeld would have done what Foles did.  i.e., you need a better backup.

But PHI was really an outlier in the backup QB quality category.  Few teams can afford or even find a QB that good to sit second chair.  You could argue MIN was being run by a backup QB so then you've got 2 out of 32.  And a great D doesn't necessarily make it possible either.  JAX struggles with their drafted starter.

MM's fault wasn't in not fitting the O to Hundley.  It was believing Hundley could run whatever it was he fed him on game day, even with adjustments.  He couldn't and that's not the fault of the offense design.  You can only accomplish so much with <15yds routes and your OL is threadbare.

So maybe I missed this in my neglect of all things Bengals........but when did AJ McCarron become a good QB?  I'm hearing and reading that someone is going to pay him $20m now that he's a free agent.  Really? He hasn't played and at no point did I ever hear that he was "pushing" Andy Dalton, a pretty average QB in his own right.  Can anyone let me know what I missed?

RatPack, you're making me blush.  

The backup QB spot will be interesting, but the most pressing need is pass rush.  Neither of our starting OLBers makes enough plays on a consistent basis to allow this defense to turn the corner into a top 10-15 defense.  It seems that "getting home with 4" is the recipe for disrupting good offenses.

I think McCarthy wanted to give him time to develop, which is fair. QB is the hardest position in football and this offense isn't simple. I don't begrudge McCarthy sticking with him, I wish Hundley had been able to improve week to week, but he didn't. I have a hunch that the backup QB position is one of the major issues that showed the "silos" that Murphy referenced in making this change. Perhaps McCarthy wanted a better backup and TT couldn't or wouldn't make it happen. I expect one of Gute's mandates is to get MM and Pettine the players they want and need rather than being too rigid with team building philosophy. 

michiganjoe posted:

Really skeptical of the notion that Hundley was forced on an unwilling QB guru. Most likely explanation is MM made a horrible misjudgment of his abilities and the result was woefully inadequate QB play and an indelible stain on his legacy.

I don't necessarily think he was forced on MM, I think he wanted Hundley and likes what he's seen in practice and in  meetings, but I don't think TT was willing or able to procure a better option when it was clear BH wasn't ready for primetime. You don't know how a player will react until you see him in a regular season game. I don't know who that better option was, but either TT wasn't willing to pursue them or a deal couldn't get done (either UFA or trade). Maybe MM was stubborn and didn't want a veteran starter, but if that was the case there had to be a point where TT should have stepped in and forced a better QB on MM. I doubt that was the case though, I think McCarthy would have taken on a vet after the Saints debacle during the BYE. 

Last edited by Grave Digger
Grave Digger posted:

I think McCarthy wanted to give him time to develop, which is fair. QB is the hardest position in football and this offense isn't simple. I don't begrudge McCarthy sticking with him, I wish Hundley had been able to improve week to week, but he didn't. I have a hunch that the backup QB position is one of the major issues that showed the "silos" that Murphy referenced in making this change. Perhaps McCarthy wanted a better backup and TT couldn't or wouldn't make it happen. I expect one of Gute's mandates is to get MM and Pettine the players they want and need rather than being too rigid with team building philosophy. 

I also think that one of the off season priorities is going to shore up the backup QB situation.  I of course have zero idea what is going on at 1265 but I am sure there have been some heart to heart conversations about the backup QB situation.

I also strongly agree that I expect that Gute's philosophy is going to be to get the coaches the players that they need.  Now I don't expect Gute to go out spending like a drunken sailor but I do expect at least an attempt to get better players and not be so rigid like you said. 

Re: Hundley...could be coincidence, but the week before the Ravens game, Hundley was in Eau Claire to be the keynote speaker for an Epilepsy event (think it was a Tuesday night) - not sure if it took away from his preparation time, but he was the suckiest suck that ever sucked in the Ravens game.  Commend the giving of his time, but that was a TERRIBLE game - he followed up that crappy Ravens game by nearly beating the Steelers in Pittsburgh the next game.

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