Henry posted:

A lot of strawmen in that argument.  Not even sure how Rothliesburger being a pile of shit works into Brown not being a cancer in Green Bay.

I'd prefer the new coach to shake things up.

Fair point on the Big Ben-Brown dynamic.

The main point is that I think the reward greatly outweighs the risk, and the worst case scenario is that he does become a cancer and you cut him. I wouldn't sign him as a free agent for a 90 million in guaranteed money (a Khalil Mack type contract) because then you are stuck and can't cut him. But to get a Hall of Fame receiver near his prime for a third round pick and a 12 million dollar cap hit if it doesn't work out is worth it.

Ironic that the penultimate "players coach" Mike Tomlin is having trouble getting two of the best players in the league to play for his team.  Not saying its his fault, but Leveon Bell and Antonio Brown are arguably two of the best at their respective positions and they want out....must be pissing off Steeler fans to the highest degree.  

Steelers are going to get hurt on the cap hit if they unload AB, whether its before March 17th or after. 

A lot of posters here didn't want to pull the trigger on Mack last year. Draft picks were too important. I wanted Mack at any cost. We all know how that turned out! If Brown could be had for a reasonable amount you do it. As been stated, if he flames out you cut him. If you want the Superb Owl you have to take some chances.

A player that disrespects his coaches, teammates, and owner? No, thanks.

Way too much downside to overcome any potential benefit of bringing in a huge asshole like Brown. 
T.O. was a great talent, too, and we managed just fine without him.

I don't think the Packers win the championship without Andre Rison.  Then again, leaving practice and not showing up for the next one is serious stuff.

I wonder how Brown would react if the Packers talked things over with him and said, "We'd love to have you, but if you pull that crap here, we'll ship you out faster than a New York second."

One other thing.  I am too lazy to do the cap stuff.  That said, I still remain more concerned with o-line.

Henry posted:

My issue is taking away resources from building a defense and oline.  Brown isn't going to be worth the contract if Rodgers is getting murdered behind guys like McCray.

Agreed. You at least need competent OL. No more Spriggs and McCray.

The reason to look at Brown is that you get him without having go pay out a massive guaranteed signing bonus. 20-25 million a year for Brown takes too many resources away. 12 million is a lot more doable.

DH13 posted:

Twitter isn't just for social media.  You can follow pretty much any news source in existence.  It's how I keep up on trade (my job) news and other interests.  And there are a handful of really smart and or funny people I follow.  I never write anything.

If you're a passing game nerd, look up 'receiver school' on twitter.  Fascinating breakdown of route running.  I think they also have a 'quarterback school'.

I originally liked Twitter as a good, specific news feed but it over the top idiocy would always bleed into it.  Plus, I'm me so that's never a good combo.  Social media is pure pavlovian conditioning IMO.  Add some features to keep the morons off the feed and I'm good.  Plus, Neera Tanden is an anti-democratic POS.  If you didn't know that, she's POS and now you know. 

Point me out to some good foosball and gif feeds and maybe I'd reconsider.

MichiganPacker posted:
Henry posted:

My issue is taking away resources from building a defense and oline.  Brown isn't going to be worth the contract if Rodgers is getting murdered behind guys like McCray.

Agreed. You at least need competent OL. No more Spriggs and McCray.

The reason to look at Brown is that you get him without having go pay out a massive guaranteed signing bonus. 20-25 million a year for Brown takes too many resources away. 12 million is a lot more doable.

Yeah, a reasonable consideration.  Unfortunately, this

That seals it as a No for me. New contract? Forget it.

Henry posted:
MichiganPacker posted:
Henry posted:

My issue is taking away resources from building a defense and oline.  Brown isn't going to be worth the contract if Rodgers is getting murdered behind guys like McCray.

Agreed. You at least need competent OL. No more Spriggs and McCray.

The reason to look at Brown is that you get him without having go pay out a massive guaranteed signing bonus. 20-25 million a year for Brown takes too many resources away. 12 million is a lot more doable.

Yeah, a reasonable consideration.  Unfortunately, this

Henry posted:
MichiganPacker posted:
Henry posted:

My issue is taking away resources from building a defense and oline.  Brown isn't going to be worth the contract if Rodgers is getting murdered behind guys like McCray.

Agreed. You at least need competent OL. No more Spriggs and McCray.

The reason to look at Brown is that you get him without having go pay out a massive guaranteed signing bonus. 20-25 million a year for Brown takes too many resources away. 12 million is a lot more doable.

Yeah, a reasonable consideration.  Unfortunately, this

 

DH13 posted:

Twitter isn't just for social media.  You can follow pretty much any news source in existence.  It's how I keep up on trade (my job) news and other interests.  And there are a handful of really smart and or funny people I follow.  I never write anything.

If you're a passing game nerd, look up 'receiver school' on twitter.  Fascinating breakdown of route running.  I think they also have a 'quarterback school'.

I kind of do the same with twitter.  I never tweet anything out but I do follow things I am interested in on it and for me in my line of work there are some useful things I follow that help me.  

But, then there is the evil side of me that gets a huge kick out of the true idiots who tweet.  The buffoonery on twitter makes me shake my head and laugh at the same time. I swear we are not far off from being the society that was shown in the movie Idiocracy.  

Twitter is great because you can follow random shit like former Bengals WR Chad Johnson telling Devante Adams today he could cover Adams 1 on 1 because he’s studied DBs and then Adams clowning Chad that young men in the league can’t cover him but his tired old ass thinks he can stay with him because he has vet smarts. 

My goodness. Adams against Chad Johnson is nothing Chad Johnson ever wants to ever actually happen. 

Interesting group of non-stars that could fit in GB.  The OLB from WAS looks good for Pettine's D.

Packerswire Underradar FA's

Smith, who just turned 26 years old a few weeks ago, has 24.5 career sacks in just four seasons. But maybe the most attractive aspect of Smith’s game is his reliability. He’s never missed a game in his pro career, playing in all 16 games in each of his four seasons.

But it’s not just rushing the passer for which Smith offers value. The 6-6, 255-pounder is excellent in the run game. He finished as PFF’s No. 23 run stopper among qualified edge defenders and was the No. 19 overall edge defender.

I expected HHCD to be done with football after this past season.
Judging by his play, his head is anywhere but on football, and I don't know how he could expect to play like that for another 2-3 years.
I think we all know teams who have to put a warm body out there just to have enough players on the field, but given a choice, I'd opt for the warm body over HH.

When I think of Spriggs, I can't help of thinking of dudes like Allen Babre and Marshall Newhouse. Hardly what you would call stellar tackles and at best were average at playing the position, yet they hung around the league year after year. 

I could easily see the same thing happening with Spriggs. If the Packers cut him, it would certainly be understandable. But my guess is he won't be unemployed for long. Teams just won't give up on a player who even remotely resembles a OT. 

Also, this is nuts:

NT Kenny Clark: There’s no question about Clark’s return. The debate is whether the Packers should sign him to a long-term deal later in the season. They have him under contract for two more seasons, so it’s not necessary. But if he continues on this path, he’s going to be a star. He was on pace to play 80 percent of the snaps until injuring his elbow late in the year. He had six sacks, 10 pressures, three QB hits and three tackles for loss. Amazingly, he missed just four tackles.       

packerboi posted:

When I think of Spriggs, I can't help of thinking of dudes like Allen Babre and Marshall Newhouse. Hardly what you would call stellar tackles and at best were average at playing the position, yet they hung around the league year after year. 

I could easily see the same thing happening with Spriggs. If the Packers cut him, it would certainly be understandable. But my guess is he won't be unemployed for long. Teams just won't give up on a player who even remotely resembles a OT. 

Also, this is nuts:

NT Kenny Clark: There’s no question about Clark’s return. The debate is whether the Packers should sign him to a long-term deal later in the season. They have him under contract for two more seasons, so it’s not necessary. But if he continues on this path, he’s going to be a star. He was on pace to play 80 percent of the snaps until injuring his elbow late in the year. He had six sacks, 10 pressures, three QB hits and three tackles for loss. Amazingly, he missed just four tackles.       

Yeah they need to get ahead of this like they did Davante Adams. We can criticize late-term TT for a lot of things, but signing Adams to that deal was great considering his production in 2018. Clark's production is especially compelling considering the injuries we had to Mo Wilk and Daniels as well as the lack of production from the OLBs. He was THE guy teams had to gameplan for and he still produced. Lock him up. 

I'm willing to give Spriggs one more shot through Training Camp for the reason you pointed out as well as the fact that we're moving to a ZBS. He's a good fit for a ZBS from a physical standpoint, but again it's all mental. 

I'd like to see Spriggs without Cogbot - New O-Line coach & scheme might help - I at least want to see him in training camp.

Next to Aaron Donald, I believe Clark is the best DT in the league - he should be locked up contractually until he's 30.

Depending on how free agency and the draft work out I would be just fine with Spriggs coming in to camp on a prove it basis.  And I do believe that the ZBS is a little more finesse in nature and that might (emphaisis on the word might) be what may work for Spriggs.  I guess the bottom line for me is that if it was up to me I would bring as many OL to camp as you possibly can.

 

Goldie posted:

Dang it....looks like Randall Cobb is next to go......   

http://www.theredzone.org/Blog...sign-WR-Randall-Cobb.    Loved Randall Cobb....gonna miss him.

He really was awesome.......  1/2 a decade ago.  At least he did have 1 really good game last year that brought back old memories.   I think he has some football left in him, but I don't know that he's ever going to be an elite slot guy like he once was. 

The Heckler posted:

I actually think getting Clark extended sooner rather than later might be necessary.  Maybe not this offseason but I think for sure next year since you don't want him to hit free agency in his prime at 24-25 years old.  

He won't get away one way or the other. He's a franchise tag guy if it comes down to it but get it done later in the 2019 season.  Short of an injury his price will only continue to climb through 2020. 

YATittle posted:
Goldie posted:

Dang it....looks like Randall Cobb is next to go......   

http://www.theredzone.org/Blog...sign-WR-Randall-Cobb.    Loved Randall Cobb....gonna miss him.

link didn't work.

The Green Bay Packers are unlikely to re-sign impending free agent wide receiver Randall Cobb according to Michael Silver of NFL Network.

A stalwart of the Packers offense since being selected in the second round out of the University of Kentucky in 2011, Cobb has had some great years as Aaron Rodgers' favorite slot receiver including a 1200-yard campaign in 2014 but he has grown less and less effective as the injuries have piled up.  Cobb has not played a full 16-game season since 2015 and is no longer an upgrade over the younger, cheaper receivers in Green Bay.  The 28-year-old will try to rebound with another NFL team  after averaging 43.7 yards over his last 37 games.

Sorry....here’s the article as it was on  RedZone.  

We shouldn't forget about Geromino Allison either. Before getting hurt, he was really solidifying himself as the number 2 WR. In essentially 4 games, 20 catches, 303 yards receiving 2 TDs. He looked pretty damn good. 

In fact, had both he and Cobb stayed healthy, I really think Allison would have overtaken Cobb as the #2. 

We don't know at this point what Cobb's role would have been in MLF's O and know even less about how guys like Kumerow, ESB and MVS will fit.  Slot receiver can take on a wide variety of forms, if that's what everyone's talking about here.

I may have been one of the biggest Randall Cobb fans during his time with the Packers.  But, he cannot be counted upon to put together a full season without being injured anymore and if he is on the field you cannot invest big in a guy who has averaged 43.7 yards over his last 37 games.

But, I would be ok if they signed him to a prove it contract for say one year.  As Fandame said you need some veteran presence on a team.

The Heckler posted:

I may have been one of the biggest Randall Cobb fans during his time with the Packers.  But, he cannot be counted upon to put together a full season without being injured anymore and if he is on the field you cannot invest big in a guy who has averaged 43.7 yards over his last 37 games.

But, I would be ok if they signed him to a prove it contract for say one year.  As Fandame said you need some veteran presence on a team.

Although often injured, Cobb's had some great moments as a Packer:

- Rookie game 108 yd kickoff return; looked like nothing could stop him

- 2013 game-winner vs Bears to win the division

- 2018 game winner vs Bears to seal "The Comeback"

Hard to rationalize a big contract at this point but it's no wonder AR loves him.

Cobb's been key in crunch time many more times than the ones listed above.  But his body is betraying him now.  Sure it'd be great to keep him around for stability but I don't think the WR room has space for him with all the young guys we're trying to develop, plus I'm guessing at least one day 2 pick coming in April.

The Saints are rumored to be a potential destination for Cobb as well. If you brought him in at something like 2 years and 8 million, he'd be a great investment for a playoff team. If you're the Pats, Saints, Rams, Chiefs, etc. you'd bring him in as your backup slot guy/third down receiver and give him 4-5 touches a game and he'll hold up better. He'd be a tremendous guy to make a couple of play to make a difference in the big games and the playoff games if he was healthy. 

The problem is that if he goes for the most money, he'll sign with a weaker team that may give him 8-10 million a year and then up his usage to try to justify the investment. He'll have some good games and then get dinged up and be just like he was for Green Bay the past few years. 

WolfPack posted:

if Patriots,Chiefs or Saints sign him he could really do some damage.

I agree especially if he hends up in NE. I am sure if he went their he suddenly be healthy again and perform at his old level.  That is just how it seems to work with the Pats.  

Other teams to watch out for because they have cap room to burn is Cleveland (and all of the GB connections) and the Jets who need offense badly.  Buffalo also is desperate for WR help but not sure if they have the cap room or if anyone would want to go there.

As for the Saints I think they are pretty close to right up on the cap so not sure about them but if you put him with Brees? look out.

 

MichiganPacker2 posted:

The Saints are rumored to be a potential destination for Cobb as well. If you brought him in at something like 2 years and 8 million, he'd be a great investment for a playoff team. If you're the Pats, Saints, Rams, Chiefs, etc. you'd bring him in as your backup slot guy/third down receiver and give him 4-5 touches a game and he'll hold up better. He'd be a tremendous guy to make a couple of play to make a difference in the big games and the playoff games if he was healthy. 

The problem is that if he goes for the most money, he'll sign with a weaker team that may give him 8-10 million a year and then up his usage to try to justify the investment. He'll have some good games and then get dinged up and be just like he was for Green Bay the past few years. 

He will likely command more like 2 years/12-15 million in my opinion. He still has some juice, I don't think he's worth the 12M cap number he carried in 2018 though. Under 8M is where he needs to be considering he still has some positives.

ammo posted:

What the hell is Jerry feeding those guys? 

 

They were just following in the footsteps of Greg Hardy who Jerry signed despite the fact he had been arrested for domestic violence previously. This was that story. Based on this, I don't think Jerry would hesitate to sign anyone for any reason (other than, oh never mind). 

On May 13, 2014 Greg Hardy attacked me in his apartment. Hardy picked me up and threw me in the tile tub area of his bathroom. I have bruises from head to toe, including head, neck, back, shoulders, arms, legs elbow and feet. Hardy pulled me from the tub by my hair, screaming at me that he was going to kill me, break my arms and other threats that I completely believe. He drug me across the bathroom and out into the bedroom. Hardy choked me with both hands around my throat while I was lying on the floor. Hardy picked me up over his head and threw me onto a couch covered in assault rifles and/or shotguns. I landed on those weapons. Hardy bragged that all the assault rifles were loaded. Landing on those weapons bruised my neck and my back. Hardy screamed for his 'administrative assistant' (Sammy Curtis) to come into the room and hold me down. Curtis came into the room, grabbed me from behind and held me down. Hardy and Curtis then took me into the living room area. I wasn't nearly strong or fast enough to escape. I begged them to let me go & I wouldn't tell anyone what he did. They took me out into the hall, pushed me down & went back inside the apartment. I crawled to the elevator and ran into [Charlotte Mecklenburg Police Department]. 

RE: Gutes comment on Graham and non comments on Matthews and Cobb.

1 is under contract, so you speak positively. 

The other 2 are about to be FAs, you don't tip your hand.

But, lots of speculating on what Gutekunst meant draws readers in during a mostly quiet time. 

Any interest in Justin Houston since he's on the block? 40.1 cap hit over the next 2 years and then free agency. Had 9 sacks in 2018 and had a fine season overall (still a top 15 player at his position), but hasn't played a full season since 2014 and is 30 years old. Depends on what KC wants for him I guess. They need to offload his cap hit to afford Dee Ford's Franchise Tag, so it would seem they don't have much leverage. JAX got a 3rd and a 5th for Dante Fowler, who is younger and cheaper, but not nearly as good. Might take a 3rd straight up for Houston.

packerboi posted:

One of the all-time great throw and catches..

That was such a sweet dagger for a couple reasons: playoffs, payback for a similar Hail Mary by Eli when we lost to them in the playoffs and they still had a chance in this game until that destroyed them. Second half the Gmen were sleepwalking through it all.

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