Pakrz posted:It would be nice to know what Gute is/was willing to give up for Brown.
Dude is a drama queen, but Brown and Adams would be stupid.
I would take that over a safety any day, but Antonio Brown will get toxic eventually. It is in his DNA.
It's true the #Packers were not in the initial trade talks with #Steelers WR Antonio Brown, but if the compensation drops and there's no guaranteed money, they'll talk about it. And why not? For a mid-round pick, the risk wouldn't be that great. The contract is key.
â Tom Silverstein (@TomSilverstein) March 8, 2019
Yes if the compensation is a mid round pick and there's no guaranteed money then it's worth the risk, he's an impact player. I find that scenario hard to believe though. Brown is like every veteran player, he wants guaranteed $$'s.
brown is all about the benjamins. that is all.
That's fine, he will be happy and highly productive as long as he's paid and the team is winning. Again everything relies on compensation for PIT and Brown...if the deals are modest and don't handicap the team then go for it. He wouldn't be the first headcase a team takes on to win a championship. If they want more than a 4th and he has high guaranteed $ demands then say no thanks.
Lions release T.J. Lang.
Packers did it first! 
Safety Tashaun Gipson released.
On that note... there is ZERO excuse for GB not significantly upgrading S in FA. There are a ton of decent guys out there.
Agreed, even if they don't land Thomas or Collins there shouldn't be any reason we go into next season with Brice, Jones, or Greene sniffing a starting role. It will be a major failure by the FO if we're starting Tramon paired with one of those guys.
wow, malik jackson and gipson, i would be interested.
Pakrz posted:On that note... there is ZERO excuse for GB not significantly upgrading S in FA. There are a ton of decent guys out there.
I would happily take DECENT at safety.
Michael Bennett traded to NE for a 5th round pick.
michiganjoe posted:Lions release T.J. Lang.
Hey so glad I found this before I posted it.......
hereâs an article about it.
Bennett to N.E. makes sense. It's probably the only team in the NFL that can handle another Bennett brother.
There better be some god damn oline pickups in FA.
Pakrz posted:It would be nice to know what Gute is/was willing to give up for Brown.
Well, the price has to have fallen, right?
pkr_north posted:brown is all about the benjamins. that is all.
Well, yes. Is it so hard to think a player wants to make money while they can? If you mean he is selfish on the field, that is a different story
Henry posted:There better be some god damn oline pickups in FA.
Is this how you really feel or are you playing coy with us?
The Packers have waived LB Antonio Morrison per source. He was acquired in a trade with the Colts in 2018.
Silverstein actually makes a decent case for keeping Perry over Graham...
He has been an injury waiting to happen for much of his career, but over the past five years, he has averaged just over three missed games.
Over that span he has had 26 sacks, one interception, nine passes broken up and four forced fumbles. Altogether, the output wouldnât seem worth the $11 million in cash heâs due this season. But when you see what lesser athletes with fewer sacks are about to get paid, youâll think Perry is a bargain.
All the top edge rushers have been taken off the market because their team slapped a franchise tag on or signed them, so all that is available is a second- and third-string class of pass rushers who are going to break the bank simply because they are all that is available.
Look at some of their recent totals:
Preston Smith, Washington (26 years old): four seasons, 24 sacks, four interceptions, 13 pass break-ups, four forced fumbles.
Dante Fowler, Rams (24): four seasons, 17 missed games, 16 sacks, six passes broken up, four forced fumbles.
Trey Flowers, Patriots (25): four seasons, 18 missed games, 21 sacks, six pass break-ups, five forced fumbles.
Cameron Wake, Dolphins (37): five seasons, 11 missed games, 46.5 sacks, one interception, seven pass break-ups, 13 forced fumbles.
Ziggy Ansah, Lions (30): five seasons, 14 missed games, 40 sacks, one pass break-up, eight forced fumbles.
ZaâDarius Smith, Ravens (26): four seasons, six missed games, 18.5 sacks, five pass break-ups, three forced fumbles.
Itâs going to cost a lot more than $11 million to sign Preston Smith, Flowers, Ansah and possibly ZaâDarius Smith. The market is flooded with cap space and not a lot of pass rushers so you can bet some teams will fall in love to the tune of $12-15 million per year with three or four in that group.
Meanwhile on Graham...
One reason the Packers are sticking with Graham is that they're desperately undermanned at the tight end position with converted wide receiver Robert Tonyan the only other option with NFL experience. The draft is full of tight ends, but in coach Matt LaFleur's first year, he's going to need some veterans.
The thing is, Graham isn't really a tight end. He's a wide receiver and LaFleur can't count on him being an effective blocker in the wide zone rushing attack he'll use. So, he'll be in search of tight ends anyway.
I'm no fan of Perry and maybe you think MF can rejuvenate Graham and make him productive again where MM couldn't, but there's no denying that Graham is 1) not the ideal fit TE for this scheme 2) isn't what he used to be as a threat vertically and 3) is a terrible fukking blocker when many of us would like to see MF improve the running game. I think we expected Graham to be that seam/Cover 2 busting vertical threat that we lost with Jordy and it could be true that MM shit his pants with how to use him, but regardless of what MM did with him I don't think he would have been a threat in the seam he used to be or even close to what Jordy was even if MM used him correctly. Perry is not exactly a dominant threat either and isn't worth his price tag at all, but I do see some value with his ability against the run and his age. Tough choice, in reality neither should be making what they're making and GB should have dealt with this depth issue at both positions a lot sooner.
Tavis Smiley posted:Henry posted:There better be some god damn oline pickups in FA.
Is this how you really feel or are you playing coy with us?
The whole McCray thing has chapped my ass.
I'd keep Perry if he could play in a full body cast.
Rather have Cook over Graham
Saw Weddle signed with Rams. Not a big deal. Also saw on ESPN:
-Karate Kid on BBC
-Bridesmaids on E
-Sixteen candles on AMC
-Raiders of the lost Ark on Paramount
-AND Good Times on TVOne
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I think Graham has 2 qualities at this point in his career; his size and his experience. He's a BIG target anywhere on the field, and should be abusing LBers on 3rd down plays for conversions.
Brown is as phony as a $3 bill.
"Trade me".
"You're going to Buffalo".
"I don't want to get traded to there".
Grave Digger posted:Agreed, even if they don't land Thomas or Collins there shouldn't be any reason we go into next season with Brice, Jones, or Greene sniffing a starting role. It will be a major failure by the FO if we're starting Tramon paired with one of those guys.
It was a major failure by the FO last season that Brice was starting. And you could even make the same argument about Clinton-Dix, who quit on the team late in the 2017 season.
Orlando Wolf posted:
Thatâs the 2nd time that I know of where Collins mentioned GB.... Iâm certain heâs just a fan though and that thereâs been no tampering going on.
NC STate Wolfpack Womenâs Basketball fan
Excellent observation sir.
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I see Landon likes to bully the slow kids.
Bleacher Report says Pack is interested in Dee Ford LB from the Chiefs
If we take either Collins or Thomas in FA, we will still need to draft a Safety. One of the top 6 (N. Adderley, D. Thompson, J. Abram, C.G.Johnson, J. Thornhill and T. Rapp) should be available with our pick, #44, in the 2nd round. Once the 3rd Round comes along, most of these guys will be gone.
What is Dee Ford worth. Pick 12? pick 30? I would give them 12. apparently the 49ers want him too. I dont see them offering pic 2 for him and packers can top whatever else they offer. Maybe packers can drop down from 12 in the 20s and give them that one while pickign up another in the top 3 rounds.
i think out second saftety will come out of Breeland or Joshua Jackson.
YATittle posted:Bleacher Report says Pack is interested in Dee Ford LB from the Chiefs
I thought the Chiefs put the tag on Dee Ford. Didn't they?
12 for Dee Ford is too much for me. I think Jackson could make an excellent safety in time. He likes to tackle and has exceptional ball skills.
Pakrz posted:12 for Dee Ford is too much for me. I think Jackson could make an excellent safety in time. He likes to tackle and has exceptional ball skills.
Agree, 12 for Dee Ford is way too much. I wouldn't give up 30 either. As for Jackson, I thought his tackling was terrible last season.
Price may be too high, both in salary and draft pick. They want a second.
https://247sports.com/nfl/gree...s-Packers-129873816/
Ford would be well worth a second round pick. Heâs just 27 as well. From NFL com:
Ford is slated to make around $15.4 million on the tag in 2019, a price tag that the Packers ($36 million in cap space) and 49ers ($66.7 million) are clearly both willing and able to pay, at least for this season.
Rapoport reported Tuesday that Kansas City was willing to trade Ford for a second-round pick, as the 3-4 outside linebacker might no longer be as big a factor in new defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo's 4-3 defense.
While there are questions surrounding Ford's fit with the Chiefs, there's no denying his talent and upside. The linebacker contributed to a feverish Chiefs pass rush last season with 13 sacks and a league-high seven forced fumbles.
Green Bay has openly been in the market for an edge rusher, and Ford could be a defining member of Mike Pettine's defense with the Packers.
Dee Ford had 17.5 sacks in 51 games prior to his breakout season in 2018 (contract year) when he posted 13 sacks in 16 games.
â Michael Cohen (@Michael_Cohen13) March 9, 2019
Nick Perry had 12.5 sacks in 46 games prior to his breakout season in 2016 (contract year) when he posted 11 sacks in 14 games. #Packers
Not saying Ford is Perry, but the team needs to exercise caution with a guy that hasn't done it consistently. That's a lesson they should have learned from Nick.
Absolutely. No way is Ford worth a 2nd round pick AND a huge contract. Too little production prior to his contract year. He's a better pass rusher than Perry, but it's a fair comparison.
IDK, if we traded our second pick I look at it like this (not considering the contract $).... the chances of a second round pick being as good as Ford within the next two years are slim, the chances of a second round pick ever being as good as Ford are below average. In addition, we have the 30th pick as a bonus, which we can consider the better replacement for our second round pick. Even if we gave up the 30th pick, we are in essence getting Alexander and Ford for Davenport (who the Saints took with our pick).
Agreed. Why would you ever value a draft pick over an established talent?
Fair, but how good is Ford really? He was considered a bust prior to last season. I'd be OK giving up a 2 or I'd be OK giving him a huge contract. I just don't like doing both.
Iâm seeing that logic (Known commodity versus a crapshoot draft pick). Lord knows we need heat from the OLB slot.
Tough to complain about:
- Sign Landon Collins in FA
- Trade the 2nd round pick for Dee Ford
- Take Sweat,Ferrell, White, etc at 12
- Take OL, TE or S at 30
Talk about a night and day turnaround.
I remember all the hand wringing last year over Mack. "He's not worth the 1st round pick." Ect. Ect. Yes he was!
Ford is not Mack.
Again, check his depth perception. As in FA just like the draft, get guys who show they produce consistently. Enough one year wonders and pajama Tarzans.
YATittle posted:Ford is not Mack.
Correct, But nobody wanted to "waste" a top pic on Mack either.
This is one of the best years in recent history for guys that can rush the passer. An elite prospect will be there at 12. Thatâs why I wouldnât go too crazy on Dee Ford.
Justin Houston might actually be the better choice. Heâs older, but has been more consistent and certainly wonât come at the same cost as Ford.
There isnât a single guy in the draft that has proven a thing in the NFL. Dee Ford posted double digit sack totals in 2 of his last 3 seasons (He was injured and only played in 6 games the other year).
Iâm not saying they shouldnât consider a guy like Ford, but I wouldnât give away the farm for him either.
At a minimum it will take a 2nd rounder to get him. The Packers 2nd round pick this year is almost like another 1st rounder.
Then there is the contract factor. When I hear âVon Millerâ type money thatâs a lot of guaranteed jack. No rookie - even taken 12th- will come close to what Ford could get as an UFA.
I would rather they spend big bucks on a safety like Collins or Thomas because they have a lot of decent options in the draft to get an OLB or LB. Ideally, they draft a LB like White and trade up to get a pass rusher like Sweat.
Interesting read. Many Packers will be getting raises, next season including Spriggs!
https://www.packersnews.com/st...se-kicks/3109150002/
Pakrz posted:There isnât a single guy in the draft that has proven a thing in the NFL. Dee Ford posted double digit sack totals in 2 of his last 3 seasons (He was injured and only played in 6 games the other year).
Youâre glossing over the âhe was injuredâ part. That injury led to back surgery in late 2017. He also had back surgery in college.
Ford is worth a 3rd rounder - nothing higher.
I agree with Boris
Pakrz posted:12 for Dee Ford is too much for me. I think Jackson could make an excellent safety in time. He likes to tackle and has exceptional ball skills.
Tackling is not one of Jackson's strong suits. He needs to succeed in the slot or he'll wash out like Rollins.
Well, Brown made it to the Raiders...
They gave Pittsburgh a 3rd and 5th round pick, and Brown a new $50M contract with $30M guaranteed.
The Steelers get a cap mess.
Raiders agree to deal for Brown
Best place for him.
Increase the likelihood the Raiders draft a QB?
Pakrz posted:There isnât a single guy in the draft that has proven a thing in the NFL. Dee Ford posted double digit sack totals in 2 of his last 3 seasons (He was injured and only played in 6 games the other year).
I would rather pony up big money for Moseley/safety combo and get your edge rushers in the draft along with a couple of mid tier signings. Moseley is about the safest signing you can get and immediately improves the defense. Clay would be more than fine if he had a supporting cast of Moseley inside and a high pick on the other side.
The Silverstein argument of keeping Perry is growing on me too. If you aren't relying on Matthews and Perry for everything, you could actually get some meaningful downs out of the guy. Perry is an ass kicker against the run and can get home. Perry even mentioned something about not being approached about a contract renegotiation. Offer Matthews a mid-tier contract and see if Perry renegotiates. That takes care of a lot of depth issues as well as having a good rotation.
DH13 posted:Who would we rather have, Thomas or Collins? Can't have both.
Thomas. Collins isn't that good in coverage.
I'd draft a rookie Safety, or two, just so, hopefully, we won't have to revisit the position again in FA or the Draft, any time soon. We would have one of the youngest groups of players in the DB/Secondary in the league and they would be together for a while. We could actually work at getting other positions in future drafts, for a change.
A lot of good safeties in the draft this year.
El-Ka-Bong posted:Increase the likelihood the Raiders draft a QB?
I think it does. Or else the Giants panic and trade up to the Jets #3 and take Haskins. Oakland then drafts best defensive player and the Jets still get a very good D guy and more picks.
Only had to give up a 3rd & a 5th.
I think I said , if the Pack traded #30 they would get the Steelers 3rd rounder in return plus Brown.
Pretty good deal for the Raiders. There's very few teams that can handle that circus. Raiders are a circus so they go without saying. Patriots & Packers could handle him. That pretty much it.
Let's see what happens. If the Raiders nail this draft it's 100% because of Mayock. It certainly isn't Gruden.
mrtundra posted:I'd draft a rookie Safety, or two, just so, hopefully, we won't have to revisit the position again in FA or the Draft, any time soon. We would have one of the youngest groups of players in the DB/Secondary in the league and they would be together for a while. We could actually work at getting other positions in future drafts, for a change.
That formula hasn't worked for years now. I don't care if they draft a safety but it better be no earlier than a 3rd.
Iâd be ok taking a S in the 2nd. Adderley comes to mind.
i don't give up anything > 3 or 4 for ford, but i would pay up for a g/t and even 2 safeties...honey badger and thomas...just me, we need some attitude on the back end of our d...then draft opens right up.
doesnt seem like any pass rushers are around, so have to home brew them it seems. since safeties are a plenty, just grab em while they are there...there's a saying, strike when the iron is hot, well...go get em.
There was talk on Twitter also about shipping Perry to KC for Ford and some configuration of picks on both sides. KC is switching to 43, which is a better fit for Perry, and heâs under contract for 2 more years. Sounded more like speculation than actual rumor.
It would be a way better fit for Perry. If that softened the cost I'd do that to swap contract year overachievers.
Grave Digger posted:There was talk on Twitter also about shipping Perry to KC for Ford and some configuration of picks on both sides. KC is switching to 43, which is a better fit for Perry, and heâs under contract for 2 more years. Sounded more like speculation than actual rumor.
When does speculation become a rumor or vice versa?
Henry posted:mrtundra posted:I'd draft a rookie Safety, or two, just so, hopefully, we won't have to revisit the position again in FA or the Draft, any time soon. We would have one of the youngest groups of players in the DB/Secondary in the league and they would be together for a while. We could actually work at getting other positions in future drafts, for a change.
That formula hasn't worked for years now. I don't care if they draft a safety but it better be no earlier than a 3rd.
There won't be any Safeties, of note, available after the 2nd round. This is if they do not acquire a Safety in FA. FA changes draft pick plans quite a bit.
How long before Bhawoh Jueâs son is draftable?
Just saw that Ford registered 84 pressures in 2018 while Perry, CM, Fackrell, and Gilbert COMBINED for 87...ððž
El-Ka-Bong posted:Increase the likelihood the Raiders draft a QB?
Heck yes.......... Derek Carr = The Kirk "BUST" Cousins of the West
Justin Houston was released today. Is now a FA.
Earlier this offseason, the Packers hired Justin Houston's position coach. That, combined with the team's need for pass-rush boost, makes Green Bay a natural option for Houston. https://t.co/ZxSCC6PSlW
â Jason B. Hirschhorn (@by_JBH) March 10, 2019
Correct me if Iâm wrong, but isnât Houston also a team captain type dude. My point is, besides being a productive player, I think he also brings a sense of veteran leadership that GB could use on defense.
Ford (27) is 3 years younger than Houston (30), but Houston should be a little cheaper to sign and won't cost a draft pick. Get it done Gute.
Grave Digger posted:There was talk on Twitter also about shipping Perry to KC for Ford and some configuration of picks on both sides. KC is switching to 43, which is a better fit for Perry, and heâs under contract for 2 more years. Sounded more like speculation than actual rumor.
Iâd carry Perry to the airport.
CoPackFan posted:Earlier this offseason, the Packers hired Justin Houston's position coach. That, combined with the team's need for pass-rush boost, makes Green Bay a natural option for Houston. https://t.co/ZxSCC6PSlW
â Jason B. Hirschhorn (@by_JBH) March 10, 2019
Did Houston like his coach?
heyward posted:Grave Digger posted:There was talk on Twitter also about shipping Perry to KC for Ford and some configuration of picks on both sides. KC is switching to 43, which is a better fit for Perry, and heâs under contract for 2 more years. Sounded more like speculation than actual rumor.
Iâd carry Perry to the airport.
i will help you. I will make sure we wrap him in bubble wrap he doesn't get hurt and it voids the trade.
Yeah, the Brown trade is cap hades for Pitt this coming year, but after that they automatically free up $21 million from Brown, plus this year is the last big hit for Big Ben at $23 million. They want to extend Benâmaybeâand would make it cap-friendly. But with Brown gone, I could see Pitt letting Ben play out the year, him retiring, and Pitt starting over with an awful lot of cap space. No Brown, Bell getting out, Ben is 37... time to reset.
Houston at a fraction of the price for no draft pick would be so much better than trading a premium pick AND paying Ford a massive new deal. Having Houston mentor a first round pick would be pretty nice.
Pittsburgh dumpsters these days ... ( via @luxurybox220) pic.twitter.com/d1FanJ7BWT
â NFL on ESPN (@ESPNNFL) March 11, 2019
Welcome back, Dante! ðĪðļ#LARams + @dantefowler have agreed to terms on a new contract ð° Âŧ https://t.co/BZAKGewU3n
â Los Angeles Rams (@RamsNFL) March 11, 2019
Raiders stay in Oakland. Craving Bazillionaires like milwaukee.
Ze'Darius Smith might actually be the best option of who is available at OLB:
Wasn't just sacks for Za'Darius Smith either. Had a better pressure rate than Brandon Graham, Demarcus Lawrence, both Watt brothers, and Myles Garrett. https://t.co/33bBjqXKXv
â Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) March 11, 2019
Thought this was an interesting take on the twit from eye in the sky:
Tashaun Gipson was an essential piece in Mike Pettineâs scheme in Cleveland. Gipson allowed Pettine to play Single High without disguise because Gipson was able to cover and blitz. The blitzing was used as a run stopping element that transitioned to pressure on pass plays.
It's either Jackson's agent is using GB to play hardball with Philly or GB is looking for a better version of Mo Wilkerson. We have a deep DL, I can't imagine they re-sign Mo if they sign Jackson.
Hearing that former Jags DL Malik Jackson is close to a new deal, with Green Bay and Philly as the primary options.
â ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) March 11, 2019
Nothing wrong with extra DL to add to the rotation.
Mo would come at a reasonable price anyway.
But I agree, these agents always use Green Bay to get more money for their players
Looks like Philly got him for $10M over 3 years. Pretty nice deal for Philly, he's still a pretty good interior rusher. On the bright side Wilkerson should only cost $2-3M per year max!
EDIT: Schefter is saying $30M over 3 years. Makes a lot more sense.
Grave Digger posted:It's either Jackson's agent is using GB to play hardball with Philly or GB is looking for a better version of Mo Wilkerson. We have a deep DL, I can't imagine they re-sign Mo if they sign Jackson.
Hearing that former Jags DL Malik Jackson is close to a new deal, with Green Bay and Philly as the primary options.
â ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) March 11, 2019
Gutekunst has said multiple times that the Packers want to be in on any FA conversations. Agents will use that as "interest" to increase leverage. But it doesn't mean the Packers are/were serious contenders in the negotiation.
The interest in Jackson is less surprising when you look at this quote from when Pettine was hired:
Remember, #Packers DC Mike Pettine said all these things when he was hired last year. He wants interior rushers. https://t.co/0V2LHcJCAR pic.twitter.com/lNInMKlMOR
â Zach Kruse (@zachkruse2) March 11, 2019
Makes me think GB might have less urgency than some think to land one of the top pass rushers available. Again I think Pettine's system, based on what it look like with NYJ, was not reliant on edge guys to be dominant edge rushers. It was reliant on them being sound against the run though and executing properly.
As long as you're not counting on him to be your #1 receiver, he's a pretty good utility player. Definitely a return game upgrade.
#Packers mentioned as a team for Cordarrelle Patterson, which makes sense. HUGE upgrade in the return game. Can be a factor stretching the field, in the backfield, and in the screen game. Plus, won't be expensive. https://t.co/V5x1OSTlvH
â Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) March 11, 2019