EC Pack posted:

Unpossible.  We all know it would have to be the Vikes for the opener. 

They after all are one of the greatest franchises in current, recent and all times.

So says the two blowhards that infect one particular thread....

Well we all know that the Vikings defense is so brutal that players from other teams will actually get badly hurt just facing them. 

So I wonder if the Packers play the first Thursday if that would mean they would get the Thursday night game over with and they wouldn't have to play one later?

hope it isn't Packers/ bears. Those sorts of games should be played later in the year. I hate it when the NFL plays big rivalries like this out the gate.

Have GB play some crappy team like the Patriots or Seahawks out the gate then play the real rivalries in Nov and Dec.

Aaron update:

"I feel great," Rodgers told Kay Adams and Kyle Brandt of the NFL Network. "My body feels really good. Instead of getting surgery postseason, decided to kind of go through a different routine with my knee than I've done in the past, and I'm feeling really, really good. Got a concussion the last game, that's cleared up. I'm getting back into my workout routine, but the first month of the offseason is a lot about yoga and traveling."

Rodgers and girlfriend Danica Patrick toured New Zealand and he said the trip included a stop in Hawaii to visit with golfer Jerry Kelly, who will be his playing partner during this week's Pebble Beach Pro-Am.

Alluding to the hiring of LaFleur to succeed the fired Mike McCarthy, Rodgers said, "A lot of change in life, in general. It's tough at first, but it usually works out for the best. So I'm excited about what's going on in Green Bay and the future there, and just enjoying my time off."

Packers Edleman might already be on the roster. I think MLF can use EQ and Kumerow the same way. 

Important to note that Edleman isn’t doing anything extraordinary. He’s almost always in motion to determine man or zone. Or Gronk runs motion. Either way it’s for Brady to see coverage. Edleman runs a 5-7 yard stem and then has freedom to break in / out / sit down depending on where the soft spot is. He rarely runs a known pre snap route unless it’s to the seam. 

Now. Edleman and Brady are virtually unstoppable because they are both seeing the same hole in the defense. It doesn’t happen overnight but Welker and Amendola ran the same patterns for NE  equally as effective. 

There is no reason MLF can’t coach EQ and Kumerow to be used with the similar results. 

Kumerow & St. Brown are nothing like Edelman. Edelman thrives on his short area quickness, change of direction, and explosion out of cuts. His "confined area times" are incredible; 3.92 short shuttle and 6.62 3 cone drill. For comparison Kumerow's are 4.26 for short shuttle & 6.9 for 3 cone. St. Brown did not run either at combine or pro day, but at 6'5" I can't believe they were anywhere near Edelman's numbers. Not saying they will not be good players but they would not be as successful running the types of routes Edelman does. 

 

 

Edleman wasn’t the 232nd guy selected in the draft because of his physical greatness. He’s 50% ability, 30% football IQ, and 20% film rat. 

You can make quick guys look slow if you let them run themselves out of position. And he’s great at letting them oblige him. 

Zero chance Bo Jackson can play an effective Barry Sanders role. They are two completely different body types. 

This idea you have to be 5’11 and shifty to be a great slot reciever is bullshit. Can you recognize coverage and quickly find the vacated spot? Can you play football? 

If Tyler Boyd at 6’2 can become a ****ing nightmare in the slot with Andy Dalton then EQ has a great opportunity with Rodgers and MLF. 

Janis is a tough sell. Rams offense was never the same after losing 6’2 210 lb slot reciever Cooper Kupp. 

Football is always evolving. Cant fill spots looking for “body types”. Find football players. Then coach them up. Goes for every position. 

Pikes Peak posted:
El-Ka-Bong posted:

I also think it is great everyone forgets Edleman might have been so good in the Superbowl because he got to rest for the first four games of the season

After missing a season for knee surgery.

And juicing up on the cream and the clear. And I believe he is still juicing. Look at the definition and quickness and NEs propensity to cheat.

This is great news! 1) This guarantees we won't have a short week Thursday game during the season and 2) we will start the season with a mini-bye. The only things more fun than embarrassing Chicago in week 1 is embarrassing them in week 17 to keep them from the playoffs and embarrassing them on their own turf to keep them from the SB!

Isn't the week 1 TNF game technically a SNF game in terms of who gets scheduled on Thursdays?  Meaning you get another Thursday game?

Last year's opener was Atlanta at Philadelphia.  Atlanta played again on Thanksgiving at New Orleans, while Philadelphia played Thursday, Oct. 11 at NYG.

packerboi posted:

This also hasn’t happened since 2005:

#Packers coach Matt LaFleur is changing the practice schedule, wants to hold joint training camp sessions with another team and vowed to build a culture rooted in discipline. There’s a new sheriff in Green Bay.

If I remember,  2005 was not a very good year.

packerboi posted:

This also hasn’t happened since 2005:

#Packers coach Matt LaFleur is changing the practice schedule, wants to hold joint training camp sessions with another team and vowed to build a culture rooted in discipline. There’s a new sheriff in Green Bay.

Remember the Cheese League? The NFL training camps that were located in Wisconsin? Once per camp, the teams would "scrimmage" another team based at a UW college. We had the KC Chiefs, as the Home team, at UW-River Falls. They hosted the vikings who drove in from Winter Park for the day. The following camp KC hosted the New Orleans Saints who drove up from their camp at UW-Lacrosse. LaFleur's plans remind me of those days.

#Packers new Head Coach Matt LeFleur told reporters in Arizona this week he's watched every single play of Quarterback #Aaron Rodgers for the last 2 years. That's about 1500 snaps he's reviewed. 

Radio discussing this today who were there when LaFleur talked about this said LaFleur looked like he already has his game face on. He appears to really grinding when it comes to his plans for the 2019 Pack. 

LaFleur then said he looked back into Rodgers older film and one of the plays that stood out was in a game against the New York Jets and he plans to show the play to Rodgers when he meets with him at the start of offseason workouts on Apr. 8. 

“Some of the traits you always look for in a QB … they brought an internal cross-dog blitz and he hit Jordy (Nelson) over the middle,” LaFleur said via Wes Hodkiewicz of Packers.com. “It’s what we call our no-flinch. There was a free runner, I think it was Bart Scott came running in there free and just how he stood in the pocket and delivered an accurate ball and took (a hit), really he got folded in half like a suitcase. But that’s one of my all-time clips of him, one of my favorite clips of him.”

Where does Jordy rank in the top receivers in Green Bay. Of course Don Hutson would be #1 but I never saw him play. For guys in the last 50 years. I think it would go James Lofton, Sterling Sharpe, then Jordy. If Javon Walker would have stayed healthy and stopped whining about his contract he would have been top five but since he didnt and could not, the top five is rounded out by Greg Jennings, and Davante with Davante moving up the list. 

Floridarob posted:

Where does Jordy rank in the top receivers in Green Bay. Of course Don Hutson would be #1 but I never saw him play. For guys in the last 50 years. I think it would go James Lofton, Sterling Sharpe, then Jordy. If Javon Walker would have stayed healthy and stopped whining about his contract he would have been top five but since he didnt and could not, the top five is rounded out by Greg Jennings, and Davante with Davante moving up the list. 

Floridarob, I think you have it right.  Like you, never saw Hutson play, saw all the others, Hutson still #1.  I think those who never saw saw Lofton may not realize how incredible he was -- truly elite height, hands, speed and smarts.  Sharpe was a beast.  Both should have been Packers much longer than they were.  You watch these replays of Jordy and are reminded just how much he contributed over the years.  What a great player:  https://www.packers.com/video/...he-green-bay-packers

When comparing current vs past WRs, we also have to keep in mind rules then vs now. 

Then, corners and safeties could play, you know, defense. They could drill WRs, play real bump and run, and grab. 

Now? Imagine a 21 year old version of Sharpe playing now. With all the rules slanted toward the offense. 

Holy shit...

packerboi posted:

When comparing current vs past WRs, we also have to keep in mind rules then vs now. 

Then, corners and safeties could play, you know, defense. They could drill WRs, play real bump and run, and grab. 

Now? Imagine a 21 year old version of Sharpe playing now. With all the rules slanted toward the offense. 

Holy shit...

Antonio Brown posted 5 strait seasons with 1200 plus receiving yards, 

Sharpe could have done that with one hand tied behind his back.

Floridarob posted:

Where does Jordy rank in the top receivers in Green Bay. Of course Don Hutson would be #1 but I never saw him play. For guys in the last 50 years. I think it would go James Lofton, Sterling Sharpe, then Jordy. If Javon Walker would have stayed healthy and stopped whining about his contract he would have been top five but since he didnt and could not, the top five is rounded out by Greg Jennings, and Davante with Davante moving up the list. 

Good one.  I would have to go Hutson, Lofton, Sharpe, Driver, and Jordy

I think in today's NFL Lofton and Sharpe would go freaking nuts and I can't even imagine how good their stats would be.  Can you even imagine Rodgers throwing to those two?

It's hard for me to conclude Lofton was definitely better than Sharpe or Sharpe was definitely better than Lofton.

I have to give them a tie!

Lofton was awesome, but Sharpe found a way to get so many receptions even though it seemed he was all the offense had.  I don't know how he managed to do that!

Goalline posted:
Boris posted:

Didn't know where else to put this. 

Guess Bulaga likes @ManCity

He is an enormous City fan. He only watches soccer and golf. No other sports. "Sports"? Fortunately, City lost yesterday to Tottenham. Sorry, CHONGO.

Meh...you give up that many goals, you deserve to lose. I'm over it. Win the PL, and all is forgiven.

phaedrus posted:

It's hard for me to conclude Lofton was definitely better than Sharpe or Sharpe was definitely better than Lofton.

I have to give them a tie!

Lofton was awesome, but Sharpe found a way to get so many receptions even though it seemed he was all the offense had.  I don't know how he managed to do that!

They also played in completely different eras in terms of what a DB could do to a WR. Same with Sharpe and current players. 

Goalline posted:
Boris posted:

Didn't know where else to put this. 

Guess Bulaga likes @ManCity

He is an enormous City fan. He only watches soccer and golf. No other sports. "Sports"? Fortunately, City lost yesterday to Tottenham. Sorry, CHONGO.

Already commented on in the soccer forum....  

I think I’d try to unload Spriggs on another team. Probably not possible, at least not right now. But maybe during preseason with some other teams’ injuries.  Or maybe someone thinks the ol’ “new scenery, new results” mantra.  Probably not.

Glad the traded up to jump in front of the Bears who were “rumored” to want Spriggs.  Instead, they got Cody Whitehair. Bears win that one.

I really don't want to do the arithmetic on all the teams, but the Packers could easily have the tallest WR corp in the NFL, and it's likely a prescription for failure. They're always talking about some tall WR doing what the Patriots/Steelers/etc. smurfs have done to gather all those Super Bowl rings. I was right years and years ago. It's impossible. The dummies in GB have ruined the careers of two of the greatest QB's the NFL has ever seen. The two SB's GB has won in their "they gotta be tall" WR era, had two WR's who were major in the SB wins who were under 6': Jennings and Howard.

So this year they will probably try a 6'5" returner. Innovation in Idiotsville. 

Cue, it's because Brady is throwing the Edelman. Which SB did they win when Brady was throwing to Moss? 

Smurf WR's dominate the primetime NFL; smurf WR's have almost all of the SB rings in the 21st century; WR's over 6' have very few, and it's for a physical reason: the slow, fat, uncoordinated slugs can't get open enough, and a 5'9" CB can easily out jump them on jump balls. Minitron has rings; Megatron and Moss don't.

Best WR Rodgers has ever had: DeSean Jackson. 

 

 

 

 

 

EQ and MVS aren't slow or fat.  None of them are really.

Sorry the game is ruined for you Johnny, but the NFL has changed.  They hardly wear pads anymore and smurfs are first to get hurt.

Good hearing from you again though (not being snide it's been a while since you posted).

P.S.  Trevor Davis is the returner.

I don't understand the narrative but it makes me laugh every time I read it. 😆

Johnny Z = 5'5" WR who no team in the NFL wanted in the 70's?

Moss & Megatron didn't win Super Bowls because they didn't play with Favre or Rodgers.

Is Larry Fitzgerald a big fat slob?

Boris posted:

I don't understand the narrative but it makes me laugh every time I read it. 😆

Johnny Z = 5'5" WR who no team in the NFL wanted in the 70's?

Moss & Megatron didn't win Super Bowls because they didn't play with Favre or Rodgers.

Is Larry Fitzgerald a big fat slob?

Larry Fitz? Another fat slug without a Super Bowl ring.

I've already been beating the j'mon drum.  Toughest skill to develop is route running and he already excels there.    He struggled with the read-and-adjust routes in MM'S O.  Now he and MLF need to get him locked in on the new O.

But the new FO is going to have a hard time cutting a 2nd rounder from just a year ago.

I'll just put this here from SI:

I’m arguing the Packers improved the most this offseason because they’ve undertaken a much-needed culture overhaul. Mike McCarthy’s coaching was stale and he had lost control of the team. Aaron Rodgers was changing many of McCarthy’s play calls at the line of scrimmage, the offense stalled without a consistent veteran threat Rodgers could rely on and the defense lacked the talent to keep the team alive.

By firing McCarthy and hiring Matt LaFleur, the Packers are starting fresh—and anything is better then the mess they became last season when they lost to a 2-9 Arizona Cardinals team, in cold weather, at home. Green Bay has also addressed the weaknesses in its defense with the additions of pass rushers Zadarius Smith and Preston Smith, and safety Adrian Amos. The free agent signings marked a departure from the thrifty free agent budgeting of previous GM Ted Thompson. In the draft, Green Bay focused on defense again in the first round with Michigan defensive end Rashan Gary and Maryland safety Darnell Savage, and later added a pass catching threat in tight end Jace Sternberger. So the team has an improved defense paired with a revamped offense. If Rodgers buys into the system, Green Bay will return to form.

Johnny Z posted:

I really don't want to do the arithmetic on all the teams, but the Packers could easily have the tallest WR corp in the NFL, and it's likely a prescription for failure. was throwing to Moss? 

Smurf WR's dominate the primetime NFL; smurf WR's have almost all of the SB rings in the 21st century; WR's over 6' have very few, and it's for a physical reason: the slow, fat, uncoordinated slugs can't get open enough, and a 5'9" CB can easily out jump them on jump balls. Minitron has rings; Megatron and Moss don't.

Best WR Rodgers has ever had: DeSean Jackson. 



Clearly you don't want to do the arithmetic, because holy crap, that would point out that pulling things out of your ass isn't a great plan.

3 of the top 4 receivers for 2018 NE >6'1"

4 of the top 4 receivers for 2017 Eagles >6'

3 of the top 4 receivers for 2016 NE >6'1"

2 of the top 4 receivers for 2015 Den >6'3"

3 of the top 4 receivers for 2014 NE >6'3"

Need I keep going?  

Ghost of Lambeau posted: 

Here are a couple prototypes.  Joey Clark & Lou (the toe) Groza

FK-PS-Joey Clark  FK-Lou-Groza

I don't know about the "short" requirement though.  

 

Apologies in advance; I can't help myself. 

Apparently, when Tom Dempsey played for the Saints, he was tagged with the nickname "Sofa" for obvious reasons. He promised his coaches he was was going to lose weight and report to camp next year in shape, and told them they were going to have to change his nickname to "Loveseat"! 



DH13 posted:

I've already been beating the j'mon drum.  Toughest skill to develop is route running and he already excels there.    He struggled with the read-and-adjust routes in MM'S O.  Now he and MLF need to get him locked in on the new O.

But the new FO is going to have a hard time cutting a 2nd rounder from just a year ago.

I just want him to catch the ****ing ball.

The Josh Jackson thing, I hope GooeyChews learned not to hang onto turds any longer than necessary.  They don't have the luxury of depth in the backfield.

El-Ka-Bong posted:

Check out the volume in those cups. Either the fans are getting screwed on their beer or he spilled a 1/3 of the cup getting to his seat.

Only reason I noticed is because I hate it when I buy a beer anywhere and only get a partial glass.

phaedrus posted:
ChilliJon posted:

Friend in DePere that knows things tells me J’mon Moore will be the surprise this year. He also said Josh Jackson and Josh Jones will be leaving soon. Neither is fully invested. 

What's up with Josh Jackson?

Everyone claims to know stuff - until it is clear they don't.  Call me skeptical, but what else has he predicted in the past that came true? 

Maybe he knows MLF made a version of his play book called "2019 Packer Offensive Playbook for Dummies".  That could solve one thing for Moore, but what about his drops?  He couldn't catch anything under the lights at Lambeau last year on family night.  He had those problems at Missouri as well.  So how or why  will he surprise this year? 

And Josh Jones stuff has been all over the news, but prior to that being passed over for other players had to be incriminating.  So one could connect the dots there.

Why does he think Josh Jackson will be leaving soon?  Did he say?  Last year was Josh's 2nd year in any defensive backfield at any level.  The guy has room to grow - lots of it.  And with injuries last year, he needed to play some safety.  So maybe the perceived lack of a position for him to focus on is the reason?  I use the word "perceived" because the coaches may know but aren't saying.  I am asking because I don't really know.  

It would be interesting to see what "meat" he could add to that metaphorical bone.  

no, no, no, everyone must form an opinion about the two sentences and pontificate endlessly for at least two days about the possible ramifications of the sentences in all possible ways that they could conceivably be taken.   then and only then will true disinformation become clear.

I think MLF is smart enough to know, and actually has a record of, tailoring his offense to fit his talent.  He'll be working on putting AR in the best position for  success like he is for everyone else.  If they have different ideas on how to make that happen, we may have a problem.

That is a good article thanks for posting it.   Wow people sure did rush to judgement on this one acting like they were butting heads and not getting along already.

I see a lot willingness to comprise and working together to make the offense the best it can be.  I am sure the initial conversations could have been difficult but I bet they turned out well.

The Heckler posted:

I see a lot willingness to compromise and working together to make the offense the best it can be. 

There it is again.  "Happy medium," "middle ground, "compromise"(typo fixed):  No, no and no, IMO. 

There's only one General; AR is only the Captain.

Fandame posted:

 Whatcha think? 

I think folks should know better than to click on a Florio article. He's just a bitter viking fan and Packer hater. I guess he got what he wanted....clicks and over-reaction. 

I kinda love the fact that Rodgers owns a space in Florios insecure mind  

Florio's a hack and a click-baiting scumbag.  But while he definitely put his own twist on it, the quotes are the same in both articles, and the Silver piece itself recognizes there seems to be a philosophical conflict going on between AR and MLF that needs to be ironed out:

So, to summarize: Rodgers wants to take advantage of his intelligence and experience to attack defenses, and LaFleur wants him to buy into a proven system that, because of its ambitious pre-snap activity and overall philosophy, restricts the quarterback's ability (and, theoretically, his incentive) to do so.

Here's what Silva is saying is specifically the conflict.  The first paragraph is LaFrog talking about his offense and the lack of audibles, the second is what AR was hinting he still wants to do:

"I guess from what you consider the true standard of 'audibles,' you're right -- we have not had that," LaFleur said last Tuesday during a second conversation in his office. "Because, you know, we pride ourselves on having concepts that have answers for whatever. Now, it might not always be the best answer, but you have an answer. But when there are plays that are called that have maybe not a very good answer, we typically call two plays and we run one or the other, based upon the look that the defense is giving us. The quarterback chooses, and there are criteria: We try to teach him the criteria for why we would want this play over the other play."

Rodgers, of course, has spent years conjuring potential adjustments that extend well beyond the binary model. Yet even if the quarterback feels as though he has the answers at the line, there are other forces working against him: specifically, mechanical limitations and time. Many of LaFleur's play calls will require pre-snap activity, such as players going in motion, that complicate any potential departure from the script, and narrowly reduce the window on the play clock within which Rodgers must operate. Says one coach familiar with the system: "The time you actually have to change the play, on a 40-second clock, is so limited. There are so many nuances to it, that by the time you get through everything there are maybe 10 seconds at the line of scrimmage."

I'm really liking the sound of MLF's system and hope AR buys in 100%.  This "putting his stamp on it" kind of talk is for the birds.  We know all too well Rodgers wants to throw it on every play.  He needs to just run the offense and run the plays given to him.

DH13 posted:

I think MLF is smart enough to know, and actually has a record of, tailoring his offense to fit his talent.

Yup. I think MLF is installing his offense and realizes (and has said so) that he's never had a Aaron Rodgers before. Not going to allow your QB to call many audibles when he's a young RG3, Hoyer, Mariota, Gabbert, Schaub, etc...ugh. Probably going to be different play-call variations between now and week 1. 

The over-reaction caused by the florio article is creepy...skip bayless like. Maybe we should look to get Gregg Jennings take ? 

The full context of the Mike Silver article provides a more balanced insight in to what's occurring. New coach working with hall of fame QB - in June !!! 

 

El-Ka-Bong posted:

My favorite part of the last 6 years was watching the play clock go down to 1 and AR calling a rifle quick TO.  Is that going to go away?  #sadface

Exactly. Our offense had about as much rhythm as a Jewish mom.  All the audibling did was let the defense dictate what the offense was doing.  It's part of why we were so predictable, IMO.  DC's were giving looks knowing exactly how we would respond.

LaFlower has the right idea.  Keep them on their heels.  Make them respond to you, not the other way around.  I'm thinking AR will be totally on board once it starts clicking. 

"Get on board with (him) or shut up." LOL JUST KIDDING!

 

let's get everyone in time and in sync and executing the plays correctly and efficiently and THEN let's talk about options and audibles.  it's way too early for improv.  I would think AR knows that.

and, yes, sick to death of walking up to the line of scrimmage and running the play clock down to 1 second.  OL gets no rhythm or power off the line and are on their heels cuz the D knows it's time to go.

get up to the line, have a look around, start a cadence and get after it.  make the D respond to you for a change.

I respect AR's immense talent at the QB position.  However, that doesn't change the fact that he's a pompous douche and has been for years.  His job is to listen to the coach, make plays and win football games.  He gets caught up in the "I'm smarter than everybody else" game.  Play within the offense superstar. 

Need to be honest, especially since Week 1 is @Chicago followed by Minnesota:

 

This sounds like a giant cluster-f*** waiting to happen. I suspect it won’t be until week 4 or 5 until this entirely new system has some sort of collective recognizable rhythm. I don’t see this being an easy adjustment, or one the entire offense will simply execute. I also wonder what it does to AR’s 12-man opportunities.  

Regardless, this certainly isn’t to say the last few years have been smooth: poor play calling, injuries, and general malaise hit the entire team hard. But at least we’ll find out right away if this new system is the real deal or not. 

Viks win the off-season Superb Owl year after year, while Packers fan grips over out-of-context comments in click-bait articles.

Each year the H5 household plans their summer trip north to God's country between this Viks off-season triumph, Packers fan angst, and the time shit gets real in mid August.



Silverstein has flipped and flopped on the front office and will on the Rosgers/Lafleur relationship. 

Woulda coulda shoulda, but Guy LaFleur needs to work on stamina and finishing games with this team. Teams that finish games are 12-4, teams that can’t seal the deal are 6-9-1. Lots of youth in 2018 that hopefully will learn from this. If they do then there’s reason for optimism.

 

Grave Digger posted:

Woulda coulda shoulda, but Guy LaFleur needs to work on stamina and finishing games with this team. Teams that finish games are 12-4, teams that can’t seal the deal are 6-9-1. Lots of youth in 2018 that hopefully will learn from this. If they do then there’s reason for optimism.

 

Meaningless tweet. Any fan of a losing team can say something similar. In fact, this is what every Jets fan I know has been telling me for 20 years. Not finishing games is the MO of all bad teams.

Having a bright, talented HC who is motivated to excel ought to help. The additional talent that Gutekunst has replaced bummers with over past 2 years is stellar.

This new staff will rock, as will this team. I'm fully confident in that. Starting week 1. Look out Bears, look out Queens... ditto Broncos, Eagles, Cowboys, Detroilet, Raiders, Chiefs, Chargers, Panthers, Niners, Giants, Skins...

MLF and his team will be a nice wake up call to the rest of the NFL this year. Seriously, we have not seen this level of talent assembled here in GB in nearly a decade.

(I can't believe I didn't say anything bad about Mike McPizzabox in that, but, just imply the inverse of my first sentence for my feelings on that blind squirrel who found a nut. Oh, yeah, and Ron Zook can kiss my a$$). 

heyward posted:

 

Grave Digger posted:

Woulda coulda shoulda, but Guy LaFleur needs to work on stamina and finishing games with this team. Teams that finish games are 12-4, teams that can’t seal the deal are 6-9-1. Lots of youth in 2018 that hopefully will learn from this. If they do then there’s reason for optimism.

 

Meaningless tweet. Any fan of a losing team can say something similar. In fact, this is what every Jets fan I know has been telling me for 20 years. Not finishing games is the MO of all bad teams.

Yeah that’s true, that’s what I said as well. Thanks.

heyward posted:

 

Grave Digger posted:

Woulda coulda shoulda, but Guy LaFleur needs to work on stamina and finishing games with this team. Teams that finish games are 12-4, teams that can’t seal the deal are 6-9-1. Lots of youth in 2018 that hopefully will learn from this. If they do then there’s reason for optimism.

 

Meaningless tweet. Any fan of a losing team can say something similar. In fact, this is what every Jets fan I know has been telling me for 20 years. Not finishing games is the MO of all bad teams.

Disagree tho I would throw out the last 2 games.  By then the wheels came off.

At Rams, at Pats, at Seattle?  Most teams with losing records are not competitive by the 4th quarter.  Rams made the SB.  Barring the infamous kickoff return, fumble, the game is winnable in LA with a couple minutes left.

The point is the Packers were competitive with both SB teams away into the 4th quarter.  Most losing teams absolutely would not be,

It's a valid point.

I think there is a difference between "being competitive with a SB team" in the middle of the regular season vs in the post season or actually in the SB.  It may sound like nitpicking but I get tired of the "but they almost  beat the Rams" argument when someone is trying to suggest this team was better than they actually were last year.

I agree Heyward. This is going to be a completely different team this season. Looks great on paper. We'll just have to see. At least the info we've gleaned thus far is encouraging. Best to be reserved and see what they do.

I'll venture, 19-0, and we will be the ones popping champagne every year... I'm sick of those  '72 Fish.

michiganjoe posted:

Any analysis of the team's repeated failure to finish under MM has to include the playoff choke in Seattle. 

I actually do not think that loss was on McCarthy at all. There were repeated clusterfuks by the players on the field that combined to lose that game.

The Packers have simply had too many dumb players. 

 

AtTheMurph posted:
michiganjoe posted:

Any analysis of the team's repeated failure to finish under MM has to include the playoff choke in Seattle. 

I actually do not think that loss was on McCarthy at all. There were repeated clusterfuks by the players on the field that combined to lose that game.

The Packers have simply had too many dumb players. 

 

Running Lacey into the line three times while trying to take time off the clock instead of abusing a one-armed Richard Sherman was MM's main contribution.

AtTheMurph posted:

I actually do not think that loss was on McCarthy at all.  

The coach is ultimately responsible for the product on the field.  Think a coach that took special teams more seriously likely may have ended up with a different result.  Game really did alter my view of MM as a head coach.

Was MM responsible for Peppers telling Burnett to take a powder on his INT return with only Wilson to beat to the EZ and blockers leading the way? 

You can go back and forth forever on who was "ultimately responsible" for that collapse.  And we have.  How about it was everyone's fault.

If I saw this correctly, just exactly 3 weeks from today rookies report into GB Training Camp.  I honestly didn't realize training camp was that close until I saw that on the NFL Network scroll last night.

For me personally, these are the lowest expectations I've had for a Packers' team in a long long time.  The last time I felt this way was 2006.  Now 2006 itself wasn't a particularly good year, but holy cow did things get better after that for the next 10 seasons.  Here's to hoping that whatever transpires this year can lead to a 10 season span as great or greater than 2007-2016 was. 

michiganjoe posted:

The coach is ultimately responsible for the product on the field.  Think a coach that took special teams more seriously likely may have ended up with a different result.  Game really did alter my view of MM as a head coach.

This. 

MM was also chiefly responsible for the environment and accountability level he fostered and allowed in the locker room as well. Later in his regime, players from guys like DaTone Jones, Nick Perry, Jason Spriggs, Quinten Rollins, HHCD  etc were allowed to grossly underperform or be chronically hurt, and have no worries about losing their spots on the team or even their starting roles despite contributing next to nothing in games. 

And prior to Gutey, rogue players like Ty Montgomery and Damarius Randall were allowed to flat out disregard coaches orders and calls and nothing would happen (recall Randall's hissy fit at half time that didn't result in reduction in playing time the following game). Not to mention Bak's stories of guys being late to the plane, late to practices, and again, nothing happened to them. 

Yes, individual players certainly have responsibility for their performance on the field. But when you know your HC ain't going to do shit to you if you do screw up or do what you want, that's a huge problem and you begin to understand why there was a lack of accountability. It starts and ends with the coach. 

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