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The 2010 team is obviously better because we know 100% they're a SB winning team. There's no comparison. The point isn't to say the 2019 team is just as good and is SB bound, but there are similarities in what made that team special...highly talented veteran leadership, quality depth stepping up, explosive players on offense, etc. The Falcons looked absolutely elite, stuffed with talent from top to bottom that plowed through the regular season, they weren't unbeatable and neither are any of the teams in the NFC playoff field. All it took was for GB to get confidence, play smart football, and take advantage of opportunities. There's no reason this GB can't do the same this year because the pieces truly are there IF we guys stay healthy and player to their abilities. They can play in the wildcard round and bounce Minnesota, then go to New Orleans and bounce them and then go shove it down Seattle's mouth in Seattle on their way to Miami to send Brady into retirement as a loser. 

Last edited by Grave Digger
phaedrus posted:

GD,

Man, I see this differently.

It emerged like crazy and what it was at season's end was the best team in the NFL. 

If by season's end you mean February, I'd agree. If you are talking the end of the regular season, no way. No one had them going anywhere in the playoffs. 

Last game of the year they beat the Bears 10-3. 60 yards rushing. Less than 3 yards a carry. Most of those rushing yards were Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers at QB was pretty pedestrian that game. Jay Cutler was Jay Cutler, that's why we won that game. Bears were driving to tie the game near the end then Cutler did Cutler things. 

Erik Walden came out of nowhere to have a monster game. Don't think we heard much from him again after that. We had him and Charlie Peprah starting after all those injuries. Anyone remember Quinn Johnson? I don't. He started that game. 

If Walden and Peprah are good enough to be starting on a Super Bowl winning team, so are Martinez and Lowery. 

Who's going to be the 2019 version of James Starks or Erik Walden or Fill In You Own 3-4 Game Wonder From The Past? If that happens at the right time you have lightening in a bottle and everything changes. 

All the pretzel twisting comparing the two teams' offenses is completely missing what set the 2010 team apart.  The D.  Never trailed or lost a game by more than 6 points!  That gives the offense all kinds of extra room to operate.  It's almost like you're saying the fact the 2010 offense didn't score that many points in certain games is a GOOD comparison to this year's offense.  

Boris posted:
13X posted:

10-3 is fantastic but the reality is they just aren’t that good. 

I guess they should have about 6 of their wins taken away for poor style points. 

We heard this kind of shit leading up to the 2010 playoffs.

Style points is one thing I laugh at people with.  This isn't college football where you have to look good winning and have a flashy resume.  In the NFL it doesn't matter if you win 6-3 or 63-0 you win and you get in the playoffs.

How you win and lose does provide some indication as to how good of a team you are. Getting your ass handed to you by the Niners and then struggling to beat a poor Redskin team at home doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.

DH13 posted:

All the pretzel twisting comparing the two teams' offenses is completely missing what set the 2010 team apart.  The D.  Never trailed or lost a game by more than 6 points!  That gives the offense all kinds of extra room to operate.  It's almost like you're saying the fact the 2010 offense didn't score that many points in certain games is a GOOD comparison to this year's offense.  

Losing by 6 or 36, is there a difference? Good teams find ways to win, bad teams find ways to lose. The 2010 team never got worked over like 2019 did against the 49ers, but they did allow 24+ points to some pathetic offenses (MIN, DET, MIA).  This 2019 team is finding ways to win. The fact that both offenses can struggle with consistency isn't good, but it is a fair comparison. What set 2010 apart from other years wasn't just the defense, it was the leadership and culture. 50% of the games in 2010 (including playoffs) they allowed 20+ points, so it's not like the defense locked down every team on the schedule. The fact that the 2019 keeps rebounding from losses with wins is a great sign that there's strong leadership that is keeping this group together. Some folks are skeptical that a playoff run is possible and certainly I'm not convinced this team is going to be able to get the job done, but I won't count out the veteran leadership pushing everyone to succeed. 

The Packers are a team that nobody wants to play in the playoffs. 

  1. They have a dynamic RB
  2. They have a pass rush
  3. They have a League MVP & Super Bowl MVP at QB.

I assure you.... Nobody wants to face this team in the playoffs. They would all much rather play Seattle or Minnesota or the Rams. Or any team from the NFC Least. 

GB has Aaron Rodgers, that's been enough in the past to get deep in the playoffs. Regardless of his up/down play and his supporting cast, you can't ever sleep on him. The difference from 2011-2018 and 2019:

Image result for za'darius smith

Image result for preston smith

Boris posted:

The Packers are a team that nobody wants to play in the playoffs. 

  1. They have a dynamic RB
  2. They have a pass rush
  3. They have a League MVP & Super Bowl MVP at QB.

I assure you.... Nobody wants to face this team in the playoffs. They would all much rather play Seattle or Minnesota or the Rams. Or any team from the NFC Least. 

Disagree- I would think Seattle, SF and NO would all look forward to playing this Packer team. 

Grave Digger posted:
DH13 posted:

All the pretzel twisting comparing the two teams' offenses is completely missing what set the 2010 team apart.  The D.  Never trailed or lost a game by more than 6 points!  That gives the offense all kinds of extra room to operate.  It's almost like you're saying the fact the 2010 offense didn't score that many points in certain games is a GOOD comparison to this year's offense.  

Losing by 6 or 36, is there a difference? Good teams find ways to win, bad teams find ways to lose. The 2010 team never got worked over like 2019 did against the 49ers, but they did allow 24+ points to some pathetic offenses (MIN, DET, MIA).  This 2019 team is finding ways to win. The fact that both offenses can struggle with consistency isn't good, but it is a fair comparison. What set 2010 apart from other years wasn't just the defense, it was the leadership and culture. 50% of the games in 2010 (including playoffs) they allowed 20+ points, so it's not like the defense locked down every team on the schedule. The fact that the 2019 keeps rebounding from losses with wins is a great sign that there's strong leadership that is keeping this group together. Some folks are skeptical that a playoff run is possible and certainly I'm not convinced this team is going to be able to get the job done, but I won't count out the veteran leadership pushing everyone to succeed. 

I’m certainly not counting them out either and hope they get red hot, but like many I am skeptical.

13X posted:
Boris posted:

The Packers are a team that nobody wants to play in the playoffs. 

  1. They have a dynamic RB
  2. They have a pass rush
  3. They have a League MVP & Super Bowl MVP at QB.

I assure you.... Nobody wants to face this team in the playoffs. They would all much rather play Seattle or Minnesota or the Rams. Or any team from the NFC Least. 

Disagree- I would think Seattle, SF and NO would all look forward to playing this Packer team. 

New Orleans is banged up right now, and Seattle is inconsistent and I do not believe their OL can handle the Smiths right now. Key is if Pettine schemes correctly to find the right guy to spy Wilson.

I disagree if you're saying teams would rather face NO, Seattle, or SF instead of GB when we say the Packers are a team no one wants to face in the playoffs. If we are saying they would rather face the winners of the East than GB, then yes.

Packer offense needs to develop some consistency before they can seriously be viewed as a difficult out in the playoffs. The herky-jerky and sputtering offense of late probably doesn't scare anyone.

Grave Digger posted:
DH13 posted:

All the pretzel twisting comparing the two teams' offenses is completely missing what set the 2010 team apart.  The D.  Never trailed or lost a game by more than 6 points!  That gives the offense all kinds of extra room to operate.  It's almost like you're saying the fact the 2010 offense didn't score that many points in certain games is a GOOD comparison to this year's offense.  

Losing by 6 or 36, is there a difference? Good teams find ways to win, bad teams find ways to lose. The 2010 team never got worked over like 2019 did against the 49ers, but they did allow 24+ points to some pathetic offenses (MIN, DET, MIA).  This 2019 team is finding ways to win. The fact that both offenses can struggle with consistency isn't good, but it is a fair comparison. What set 2010 apart from other years wasn't just the defense, it was the leadership and culture. 50% of the games in 2010 (including playoffs) they allowed 20+ points, so it's not like the defense locked down every team on the schedule. The fact that the 2019 keeps rebounding from losses with wins is a great sign that there's strong leadership that is keeping this group together. Some folks are skeptical that a playoff run is possible and certainly I'm not convinced this team is going to be able to get the job done, but I won't count out the veteran leadership pushing everyone to succeed. 

During the game it sure does.  When you're behind more than 6, or two scores, you often have to get rid of whatever running game plans you had.  They won 2 of the 3 games you referenced (MIN, DET, MIA) and yeah, they never got trucked like they did in SF.  This offense opens up the most when it has success running the ball.  Really hard to do that if your D isn't keeping the game close.  It absolutely matters.

I think you missed the point. A loss is a loss. To say a 6 point loss means more than a 36 point loss in the grand scheme is wrong IMO. Aaron Rodgers is correct, we can win ugly all the way to the SB. Who cares how teams win or lose, that's all that matters until playoffs. You are what your record says you are is always 100% true. Some folks want to try and say this team isn't as good as their record indicates, that's dead wrong. If you're stuck on process vs. results then yes there's a lot to get hung up on about this team, but ultimately they're doing enough to win. Our D is 13th in scoring, near the top in Red Zone scoring, and near the top in turnover differential, those are winning stats if you want to drill down. 

In a one and done situation I would always lean on playoff experience at the QB position to carry the day.   The fact of the matter is Rodgers (like Russell Wilson and Drew Brees) is very dangerous because of they are not new to playing in the postseason.  Minnesota, SF, Dallas and even Philly are a different situation.  The experienced guys won’t get freaked out by the bright lights and added pressure. 

The other issue is where you play.  It’s no secret that Seattle, New Orleans, GB and probably Minnesota have an edge because of their home field advantage.   Not that the Packers can’t win in those places, but it’s just more difficult. 

If the Packers play their A game in all facets it will be tough to beat them.  I think on paper the only team that has an edge is SF because they are so balanced and their coaches know MLF and his tendencies.  

 

Last edited by Tschmack
michiganjoe posted:

Best description I've seen of the Packers: they're playing like a .500 team but winning all the close games. Anything can happen once you're in but they'll need to develop some consistency on offense to have any real shot.

???

.500 teams do not find ways to find themselves at 11-3. They find themselves at .500.

This team is very well coached and they actually play for each other. Too many fans want to take the human aspect out of the game.

These guys really seem to buy into 'team', and that is how they are winning. Not always perfect, but finding ways to win. They actually play for each other.

.500 is not even close to an accurate description. I have seen a team that fights to the final bell every game. Even against LAC and SF.

I'll take ugly every day of the week.

and, please correct me if I am wrong, but the Packers lost only once to a top 10 defense. But, they have played against more than 4, maybe 5 or 6?

Identity? They find ways to win. Not always pretty, but a W is still a W.

^THIS^

I also will take ugly every week. I don't care if they win by a score of 3-2 in the NFL it is hard to win and if its an ugly win so be it.  This isn't college football where you need style points its the NFL and you take a win no matter how you get it.

What just blows my mind is how Packers fans are acting.  Spoiled freaking rotten.  I swear some fans won't be satisfied unless they are winning games 42-0 every week.  It the NFL that is just not realistic.

We should be absolutely stoked that they have righted the ship after two horrible  seasons and they are back.  Are they perfect far from it but each team in the NFL has its weaknesses.  Is it pretty? no but they are 11-3 with a real legit shot at a first round bye and a home game in the playoffs.  I will take that any season.

 

Last edited by The Heckler

To add to Heckler's post Gork and Mayo are still righting the ship.  There's only more to come like WR and ILB additions with acceptable levels of talent.  He can fill those spots in one year and all of sudden the roster is looking pretty well rounded out. 

Last edited by Henry
Henry posted:

To add to Heckler's post Gork and Mayo are still righting the ship.  There's only more to come like WR and ILB additions with acceptable levels of talent.  He can fill those spots in one year and all of sudden the roster is looking pretty well rounded out. 

Exactly and that is what has me freaking excited about this team.  Will they go far this year? who knows but I think the future looks really good.  Gute has shown that he will always be aggressive and do whatever it takes make them better.  

It really must suck as a fan to be so miserable when your team is 11-3 and thinking they are terrible.

 

I haven't ready anyone on here that thinks this team is terrible.  They have some shortcoming that don't instill a lot of confidence when looking toward the playoffs.  Is there enough to be excited about?  Absolutely.  But some of it might just be still trying to shake off the stank that descended upon this organization the previous several years.

There have been a lot of "yeah, but" arguments regarding their season so far but I think this game Monday night, if min doesn't "rest a bunch of guys for the playoffs", will be a pretty true indicator of where this team currently is and what we might expect going into January.

Last edited by DH13

Bad tackling, dropped passes, unnecessary sacks....there are still some things to clean up. They have a good running game which is a plus. I'm no fan of the bend but don't break defense, but it seems to be working.

DH13:
I haven't ready anyone on here that thinks this team is terrible.

It's a fiction.  It doesn't exist.  Or if it does on this forum, maybe with 1-3 posters max.

Boris:
I think every Packer player should apologize for being the worst 11-3 team in the 100 year history of the NFL.

Another fiction.  But, if you say the big lie often enough...

I fall into the category of being even ecstatic with this Packer season.  Like an unexpected gift to just fall from the sky.  The improvements are well beyond the best of my expectations.

I also tend to think that if God Himself rated the quality level of every 11-3 team, the Packers would fare somewhere below the average.  Worst?  Hardly, that's ridiculous and a lie.  No one has said this except you.

But, I never expected 11-3.  After 14 games, maybe my best hopes were 8-5.

It is possible to be totally psyched about the Packers and yet think they are a less than average 11-3 team.

Last edited by phaedrus
phaedrus posted:

Boris:
I think every Packer player should apologize for being the worst 11-3 team in the 100 year history of the NFL.

Another fiction.  But, if you say the big lie often enough...

But, I never expected 11-3.  After 14 games, maybe my best hopes were 8-5.

Oh really?

Why don't you crawl out of your hole & listen to the Locked on Packers podcast. Peter B had Arif Hasan on & he said "Weakest 11-3 team he has seen."

Yeah right....fiction.

Your math needs work. It's like a Viking fan

Last edited by Boris
Boris posted:
phaedrus posted:

Boris:
I think every Packer player should apologize for being the worst 11-3 team in the 100 year history of the NFL.

Another fiction.  But, if you say the big lie often enough...

But, I never expected 11-3.  After 14 games, maybe my best hopes were 8-5.

Oh really?

Why don't you crawl out of your hole & listen to the Locked on Packers podcast. Peter B had Arif Hasan on & he said "Weakest 11-3 team he has seen."

Yeah right....fiction.

Your math needs work. It's like a Viking fan

Oh, so he has seen every 11-3 team in the last 100 years.  Got it.

Boris,

I was wrong to post as I did and please accept my apology.  I thought you were dissing x4 posters when writing, "Worst 11-3 team in 100 years."  Had no idea you were referring to some podcast.

As far as the difference between what the podcast guy saw and the above (read: every 11-3 team), I see nothing wrong with a little hyperbole.

Last edited by phaedrus

Yes some X4 posters too. Some posters are talking about "one & done" in the playoffs. That may happen. But the ridiculous statement that they're a "bad" 11-3 team is complete effing garbage.

You are what you're record says you are. The Packers have earned an 11-3 record so far in the NFL. That ain't easy to do in ANY season. I am absolutely done with people that think this team is "lucky" or "they're not winning pretty"

The 1 thing I'll give everyone is they played so shitty vs. SF after having a bye. I'm hoping the rookie HC learned a lot from that loss. I think THAT GAME is the reason they're currently a +5.5 point underdog to the Vikings. 

"ZOMG! They don't look pretty!" It's a narrative that I'm on a mission to squash around the internet. 

No matter what happens..... this season is a GIGANTIC success. PERIOD!!

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