Round 1 Pick 26 (From Miami) QB Jordan Love Utah State

Some fans are also forgetting how QB friendly LaFleurs system is. In Rodgers first year under this system, he left a lot of plays on the field. Hell, in the NFCC game IIRC he missed a wide open streaking Adams that would have gone for a TD as well as Tonyan running wide open for a TD on the right side of the EZ.

And the plays that were left open don't require a QB to play out of his mind in order to make them. They are curl routes, inside slants, out routes and bubble screens that a Jordan Love should be more than capable of making.  MLF has also been brilliant at finding RB's screen and passing routes that constantly throw off defenses. Not to mention he's a coach who actually RTFB and doesn't just talk a good game in April like McVince did year in and out.

LaFleur's system is based on what Shanahan did in SF and McVay does in LA. Both of those teams went to the SB with Goff and Jimmy G at QB. Who are no where near where Rodgers is. But the point is, they do not have to be.

AR could very well be here through 2023 and beyond. And that's fine with me. But I believe that Gute and company have realized that the offense run here does not require an All-Pro/Pro Bowl and future HOF'er to make it work.

And that realization means a lot of dollars can be spent elsewhere to build an elite defense and give Love weapons all around him.  And that combination could easily mean GB gets to a SB via this way of doing things too. And there is nothing fucking wrong with that. This team rode Rodgers ability to carry this team on it's back for far too long.

In short, there's more then one way to skin a cat.     

@Goalline posted:

Good luck doing that though when your QB eats up so much cap room. With all the cap room 12 takes up he better be prepared to win it all “by himself “.

Not saying he’s not worth the money, but this is a team sport.

I have to push back on this oft used misnomer. Rodgers only accounted for
$ 21M in cap space last year - and that maneuver was done to allow the Packers the cap space to sign Smith Brothers, Amos and Billy Turner in FA.

Everybody gripes about the $ 37M cap hit in 2021, while happily ignoring the $21 M cap gift in 2020. Average them out and you're getting MVP QB play for only $29M / season- far less than a bunch of chumps like Cousins are making

Andrew Brandt said the idea that you can't build a Superb Owl winner with a top paid QB on your roster is wrong. You can  build a Super Bowl winner so long as your QB plays up to the paycheck - and Rodgers certainly has. Check out his OTC valuation for 2020.... $ 37Million, exactly what he's getting paid this year.

https://overthecap.com/player/aaron-rodgers/1085/

Rodgers is worth a hell of a lot more than 37mil. It’s just that history has shown that you can’t win the big one if your QB eats up more than 12% of the cap. It has never been done. Not even with the best QB I have ever seen. He badly outplayed Brady but the team simply wasn’t good enough.

@packerboi posted:

Some fans are also forgetting how QB friendly LaFleurs system is. In Rodgers first year under this system, he left a lot of plays on the field. Hell, in the NFCC game IIRC he missed a wide open streaking Adams that would have gone for a TD as well as Tonyan running wide open for a TD on the right side of the EZ.

And the plays that were left open don't require a QB to play out of his mind in order to make them. They are curl routes, inside slants, out routes and bubble screens that a Jordan Love should be more than capable of making.  MLF has also been brilliant at finding RB's screen and passing routes that constantly throw off defenses. Not to mention he's a coach who actually RTFB and doesn't just talk a good game in April like McVince did year in and out.

LaFleur's system is based on what Shanahan did in SF and McVay does in LA. Both of those teams went to the SB with Goff and Jimmy G at QB. Who are no where near where Rodgers is. But the point is, they do not have to be.

AR could very well be here through 2023 and beyond. And that's fine with me. But I believe that Gute and company have realized that the offense run here does not require an All-Pro/Pro Bowl and future HOF'er to make it work.

And that realization means a lot of dollars can be spent elsewhere to build an elite defense and give Love weapons all around him.  And that combination could easily mean GB gets to a SB via this way of doing things too. And there is nothing fucking wrong with that. This team rode Rodgers ability to carry this team on it's back for far too long.

In short, there's more then one way to skin a cat.     

   

Again,

1) First year of Mayo's tenure as a brand new HC.

2) Mayo full admitted they were still running a chunk of McVince's offense in the first year because a) implementing a new scheme as a new head coach was a lot.  b) guys had been running the same offense for so long there was a needed adjustment period, not just Rodgers.

Let's get that whole myth of only Rodgers had issues in 2019.  Here's the stat line for Rodgers "bad" season.

BTW, go ask Shanahan and Jimmy Cousins how plug and play QBs are in their system.  Couldn't have been the monster defense and all the top picks and FA gets that helped them destroy the Packers in the NFCC.  It sure the fuck wasn't Jimmy Cousins.  So going back to Jordan Love, the Packers need to have a top ten defense, solid Oline and solid run game for this plug and play mentality to work.

https://twitter.com/cheesehead...701775244197888?s=21

@Goalline posted:

It’s just that history has shown that you can’t win the big one if your QB eats up more than 12% of the cap. It has never been done. Not even with the best QB I have ever seen. He badly outplayed Brady but the team simply wasn’t good enough.

Rodgers only accounted for 10 % of the cap last year and the Packers didn't win a Super Bowl...so you cannot say that Rodgers cap hit was the reason for coming up short in 2020.

I understand the premise, but its a single data point and its not linear from season to season. Just look at how much variation there is for AR from year to year, that's why you really can't hang your hat on that one. 2 out of the last 3 seasons Rodgers was less than the "12 % of cap" cutoff. So being below 12 is no more predictive than being above 12%.

Mahomes only  consumed 4 % of the KC cap in 2020, but his valuation was same as Rodgers ($ 37 M) ...did they repeat as SB Champions ?
No they did not.

Reading this thread you would think that Gute drafting Love is responsible for an NFCC game where Rodgers throws a boneheaded INT, continuously forces it to Adams who couldn't catch anything that day, Jones fumbling twice, and the Def creating 3 turnovers the offense couldn't capitalize on.

That's a lot of heavy lifting and scapegoating for a single draft pick.

But they restructure Rodgers year to year Satori. His cap hit was higher for 2020, but in December 2019 they pushed enough money into the future to re-sign Bakhtiari, KC, and some of the other free agents. That’s why we have huge cap hits in 2021 and 2022. There’s no way restructuring Rodgers to lower these cap hits CANT include adding dummy years to spread out the hurt.

@vitaflo posted:

Reading this thread you would think that Gute drafting Love is responsible for an NFCC game where Rodgers throws a boneheaded INT, continuously forces it to Adams who couldn't catch anything that day, Jones fumbling twice, and the Def creating 3 turnovers the offense couldn't capitalize on.

That's a lot of heavy lifting and scapegoating for a single draft pick.

Yeah, that's it.  Not that people are making the case that Gunt continued the half in/half out approach to winning a Super Bowl or the fact using a 1st and a 4th on a project QB doesn't necessarily sound great for the whole half out approach either.  Jordan Love the player is secondary in this argument.  The heavy lifting comes from those trying to paint this as a scenario just like Favre/Rodgers and that the Packers will never again be without a HOF QB.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a defense that could help overcome those mistakes, say like 3 INTs?  A defense good enough to only allow 6 points on 3 picks?  Wow, that's impressive.

Not that I haven't said the same thing ad nauseum.

@Grave Digger posted:

Also how has he already lost? If anything he’s bet on Love and we won’t know how that turns out until 2024.

I'm not saying Love isn't or wont be a good player. What I'm saying is that I don't believe they pick him last year if they had any idea Rodgers would perform at the level he did.

Hindsight is 20 20 but they should have used those picks on someone who could have contributed this year especially being that we were literally 1 or 2 plays from being in the Super Bowl. Rodgers isn't going to be around for much longer. He is a generational talent and what Gute did in last years draft was beyond poor in my (and many others) opinions.

@Satori posted:

Rodgers only accounted for 10 % of the cap last year and the Packers didn't win a Super Bowl...so you cannot say that Rodgers cap hit was the reason for coming up short in 2020.

I understand the premise, but its a single data point and its not linear from season to season. Just look at how much variation there is for AR from year to year, that's why you really can't hang your hat on that one. 2 out of the last 3 seasons Rodgers was less than the "12 % of cap" cutoff. So being below 12 is no more predictive than being above 12%.

Mahomes only  consumed 4 % of the KC cap in 2020, but his valuation was same as Rodgers ($ 37 M) ...did they repeat as SB Champions ?
No they did not.

No doubt. Association does not prove causation. Agreed. If anyone is going to win the big one with a large chunk of the cap in pocket Rodgers will.

@Goalline posted:

Some dudes can see perfectly into the future...but never the past. If Love takes us to multiple Super Bowls he will be denying he said any of this.

No I won't and I never said Love would be a bad player.

Good, because evidence is to the contrary. The odds are good that Love will excel in this league.

@Grave Digger posted:

But they restructure Rodgers year to year Satori.

yes. I am aware - which is precisely why I said using 12% of the cap as some sort of cutoff is folly.

As far as Brian Gutekunst doing his job:

"According to Pro Football Focus, the Packers have the NFL’s 4th-most talented roster based on two years of PFF WAR, the site’s equivalent to wins above replacement."

@vitaflo posted:

Reading this thread you would think that Gute drafting Love is responsible for an NFCC game where Rodgers throws a boneheaded INT, continuously forces it to Adams who couldn't catch anything that day, Jones fumbling twice, and the Def creating 3 turnovers the offense couldn't capitalize on.

That's a lot of heavy lifting and scapegoating for a single draft pick.

Really need to include the substantial contribution of Kevin King.

@Goalline posted:

Some dudes can see perfectly into the future...but never the past. If Love takes us to multiple Super Bowls he will be denying he said any of this.

I know you aren't talking about me because that has never been the way I roll. 

I'll kick you clowns around even with a big fat mistake. 

Just look at Ankles Adams there Mr. Body Lean.

@Satori posted:

Is that why he sat in the green room for 5+ hours, passed over by 23 teams ?
If he wasn't a project, then why did he have to re-do all of his footwork from scratch, re-work how he holds the ball and learn every single fundamental of the Pro game to become one of the greatest ever ?

There is no part of his game that was ready for the NFL. That was a 3 year project. Whether you have the testicular fortitude to admit it...is irrelevant.

So mechanics is harder to master than having an innate ability to make solid football decisions?

Footwork?  Holding the ball high?  Did those result in INTs?  Because that kind of stuff sounds like the stuff any rookie would need to work on in the NFL.

Maybe Love catches up with the NFL game and his decision making gets better but comparing physical mechanics and brain mechanics doesn't stand.

So IF the mechanical stuff is all easily fixed, then why did 23 teams pass on Aaron Rodgers ? Surely 1 of those front offices should have figgered that out.

Also noted: Bert never  fixed his decision-making and he won a Superb Owl, a yellow jacket in Canton and the undying Love of a generation of fans

None of us knows jack diddly squat about Jordan Love, you're simply parroting (and clinging to) a randumb comment because it supports your ad nauseum position that Gute is doing it rong.

Frankly, its beneath you. But if you wanna wallow in it ....
Then wallow, wallow, wallow. I won't stop ya

"From where the Sun now stands...
...I'll entertain your ad nauseum no more, forever"

Now go get your shinebox... 

@packerboi posted:

Some fans are also forgetting how QB friendly LaFleurs system is.

LaFleur's system is based on what Shanahan did in SF and McVay does in LA. Both of those teams went to the SB with Goff and Jimmy G at QB. Who are no where near where Rodgers is. But the point is, they do not have to be.

   

I was thinking about this one previously - imagine how it looked to Shanny and McVay to see a true Maestro running their offense ?

Well, we don't have to imagine -  because after seeing Rodgers' MVP performance - Shanny traded a boatload of picks to move up to #3 and McVay traded away Goff and picks for Stafford.

I'm reasonably sure Aaron's 2020 performance impacted those franchise-altering decisions.

@Grave Digger posted:

Gute isn’t doing enough to get Rodgers to a Super Bowl. He’s not pursuing mid price vets that fill critical depth and ultimately make the difference when you’re playing for championships. Constantly rolling the dice on Kevin King, MVS, and Dean Lowry is not a path to beating Tampa or KC.

Rodgers isn’t taking less money to help afford a deep championship roster. Brady’s cap number is $10.5M, Rodgers is $37M. GB has to push money into the future just to afford to re-sign its core guys and maybe add a few rusty old vets.

Would Gute actually spend that $27M difference on veteran help or spend the bulk on up front money for Jaire and Davante? Probably the latter.

Both are the good guy and the bad guy of this story.

I don't begrudge Rodgers for not taking less coin.   Just when you think the Organization is willing to make some moves to go all in, FA signing frenzy in early Gute years, they go and use a #1 pick on his replacement the next year.

If I'm Rodgers, I say no thank you to a restructure.  Pay me in full or trade me.

Another quote from shanahan about his QB.

“I can’t guarantee that anybody in the world will be alive on Sunday, so I can’t guarantee who will be on our roster on Sunday,” Shanahan said.

https://profootballtalk.nbcspo...-roster-after-draft/

@Satori posted:

So IF the mechanical stuff is all easily fixed, then why did 23 teams pass on Aaron Rodgers ? Surely 1 of those front offices should have figgered that out.

Also noted: Bert never  fixed his decision-making and he won a Superb Owl, a yellow jacket in Canton and the undying Love of a generation of fans

None of us knows jack diddly squat about Jordan Love, you're simply parroting (and clinging to) a randumb comment because it supports your ad nauseum position that Gute is doing it rong.

Frankly, its beneath you. But if you wanna wallow in it ....
Then wallow, wallow, wallow. I won't stop ya

"From where the Sun now stands...
...I'll entertain your ad nauseum no more, forever"

Now go get your shinebox... 

Didn’t the Vikes pass on him twice.?

@BrainDed posted:

I don't begrudge Rodgers for not taking less coin.   Just when you think the Organization is willing to make some moves to go all in, FA signing frenzy in early Gute years, they go and use a #1 pick on his replacement the next year.

If I'm Rodgers, I say no thank you to a restructure.  Pay me in full or trade me.

And apparently he has done so. Onto the 2021 season.

@Pikes Peak posted:

Didn’t the Vikes pass on him twice.?

Yeah, but they had a good reason. They chose a DL and a WR. The 2 positions the Love haters were pining for the hardest. Oh, and the LB Queen.

It is all in the the name. The Queens passed on the QB to take a DL and a WR. Gute did the exact opposite to the Vikings. That sounds like a winning formula to me.

@Satori posted:

So IF the mechanical stuff is all easily fixed, then why did 23 teams pass on Aaron Rodgers ? Surely 1 of those front offices should have figgered that out.

Also noted: Bert never  fixed his decision-making and he won a Superb Owl, a yellow jacket in Canton and the undying Love of a generation of fans

None of us knows jack diddly squat about Jordan Love, you're simply parroting (and clinging to) a randumb comment because it supports your ad nauseum position that Gute is doing it rong.

Frankly, its beneath you. But if you wanna wallow in it ....
Then wallow, wallow, wallow. I won't stop ya

"From where the Sun now stands...
...I'll entertain your ad nauseum no more, forever"

Now go get your shinebox... 

So if Rodgers is picked #1 overall does Alex Smith fall all the way to #24?

I mean surely TT must of been the dupe in this whole scenario if he saw Rodgers as the best guy on the board.

Jordan Love is trending on Twitter

Gutekunst says there’s always room in ‘trusting the board,’ for “moving up for guys you think are special.” Says they’ve done that since he’s been in Green Bay.

That means they thought Jaire Alexander, Darnell Savage and yes Jordan Love were special players

— Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) April 26, 2021

Oh look, here’s the draft day recollections about Rodgers in 2005.

And I think that the team has had lousy backups at QB for a long time. Maybe it was a twofer? Get a good backup and possibly a starter. Love was drafted after (for him) Rodgers had a down season and injury’s in the near past. Perhaps the scouting dept really thought that this player was a real steal even with moving up to get him. And QB’s who can run had become the new thing in the NFL. I also believe that the team wants to be competitive for many years and not just all in for the short term. In any case I think that they expected this guy to sit for at least 3 years.

Rodgers is a hyper competitive guy and has pored his heart into this team and even the state of Wisconsin. He was pissed on his draft day and on Loves draft day. Right now he has the team over a barrel because of the unexpected salary cap woes. But if he doesn’t help the team by restructuring his contract then everyone will suffer.

No sure where this came from but I tuned into a Denver sports radio halfway into a segment.  The first sentence I head was the Pack and Broncs were talking a JL to Denver deal.  No specifics and no fact checking but who knows.

This was the Shlereth show this morning and he is somewhat plugged into the Broncos.

Going to trade Love for a 4th and a backup punter?  Always need punter depth.

@Boris posted:

Jordan Love is trending on Twitter

Gutekunst says there’s always room in ‘trusting the board,’ for “moving up for guys you think are special.” Says they’ve done that since he’s been in Green Bay.

That means they thought Jaire Alexander, Darnell Savage and yes Jordan Love were special players

— Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) April 26, 2021

Didn't Gute also trade multiple picks to move up to take Oren Burks in the 3rd when the highest any draftnik had him rated was in the 6th round?

Jordan Love still trending on Twitter

Jordan Love tonight pic.twitter.com/aTpCsPHRDZ

— Dr. Esox Masquinongy, Ph.D. (@customer_007) April 27, 2021

@Satori posted:

I was thinking about this one previously - imagine how it looked to Shanny and McVay to see a true Maestro running their offense ?

Well, we don't have to imagine -  because after seeing Rodgers' MVP performance - Shanny traded a boatload of picks to move up to #3 and McVay traded away Goff and picks for Stafford.

I'm reasonably sure Aaron's 2020 performance impacted those franchise-altering decisions.

Or they saw Goff and Jimmy G’s performances

Jordan Love is trending? pic.twitter.com/KkoP4WQ5fG

— The Game Day NFL (@TheGameDayNFL) April 26, 2021

@Satori posted:

So IF the mechanical stuff is all easily fixed, then why did 23 teams pass on Aaron Rodgers ? Surely 1 of those front offices should have figgered that out.

Also noted: Bert never  fixed his decision-making and he won a Superb Owl, a yellow jacket in Canton and the undying Love of a generation of fans

None of us knows jack diddly squat about Jordan Love, you're simply parroting (and clinging to) a randumb comment because it supports your ad nauseum position that Gute is doing it rong.

Frankly, its beneath you. But if you wanna wallow in it ....
Then wallow, wallow, wallow. I won't stop ya

"From where the Sun now stands...
...I'll entertain your ad nauseum no more, forever"

Now go get your shinebox... 

Shine box reference didn't work out too well for Billy Batts, lol.

So the moral of the story is that nobody gets out of here alive

And since it takes the exact same amount of energy to make yourself miserable as it does to be happy  - it seems like a rather easy choice.

That's one way to make an exit.

Pretty sure I wasn't the one take potshots but then it's a good thing I'm not a giant pussy like some of you hothouse flowers.

You do realize that makes me even more tenacious. 

I have not followed the “California is losing population because deal”,  the last I saw was YA saying it was because of taxes, not saying it wasn’t happening.

I just wish the Californians, Texans and Kansans would not be relocating to Colorado.  

Or.....Y.A. is full of shit.( Y.A. in Sports betting thread)

"The People leaving CA in droves is a fantasy. Some BUSINESSES did, but people are staying and our biggest issue is ridiculous real estate prices more than taxes."