One thing I forgot in my post above....what is with Ha Ha. Very tentative. There have been several times including 2 today where he would have broken on routes RIGHT in front of him and at least deflected the pass if not jumped on the route for the Int. Very very disappointed in his play all year
An ironic positive is that its going to cost a lot less money to extend Davante Adams. He was probably looking at a Nelson/Cobb type contract (4 years and at least 40 million), but he'll be lucky to get to 750 yards with Hundley under center.
PackerBackerDPM posted:One thing I forgot in my post above....what is with Ha Ha. Very tentative. There have been several times including 2 today where he would have broken on routes RIGHT in front of him and at least deflected the pass if not jumped on the route for the Int. Very very disappointed in his play all year
He’s had passes all year he could have broke on and picked. Instead he waits for a catch and then tackles. He’s looked very poor this year IMO.
. Finally all you tankers, season lost folks why the hell do you still watch if your are so convinced.?
Watching this crappy team? Just a bad habit. I should attend football AA or something.
Grave Digger posted:PackerBackerDPM posted:One thing I forgot in my post above....what is with Ha Ha. Very tentative. There have been several times including 2 today where he would have broken on routes RIGHT in front of him and at least deflected the pass if not jumped on the route for the Int. Very very disappointed in his play all year
He’s had passes all year he could have broke on and picked. Instead he waits for a catch and then tackles. He’s looked very poor this year IMO.
I agree, biggest disappointment on our defense this year
+ TT is drafting talent on both sides of the ball. A Jones is a treat!
- BH does not look like a viable NFL back-up with 3 years of experience
- Defense performance is consistently awful and I don't see Dom making things better. It's hard to argue TT only has an eye for talent on the offensive side of the ball.
chickenboy posted:CAPackFan95 posted:+
GB with Aaron Rodgers wins at least 10 games every year.
-
GB without Aaron Rodgers wins 2 to 4 games.
But yet we celebrate the genius of TT every year, all year long. The Green Bay organization often gets mentioned in the same breath as the one in in the Northeast but it ain't close. That team only continues to win when Brady goes down.
I will note, I will be more than happy to eat crow for this post if things turn around but I ain't optimistic about it.
Last time Aaron went down we made the playoffs. The guy in the Northeast did not without Brady. NEXT!
PackerBackerDPM posted:One thing I forgot in my post above....what is with Ha Ha. Very tentative. There have been several times including 2 today where he would have broken on routes RIGHT in front of him and at least deflected the pass if not jumped on the route for the Int. Very very disappointed in his play all year
Ha Ha is ****!
Goalline posted:chickenboy posted:CAPackFan95 posted:+
GB with Aaron Rodgers wins at least 10 games every year.
-
GB without Aaron Rodgers wins 2 to 4 games.
But yet we celebrate the genius of TT every year, all year long. The Green Bay organization often gets mentioned in the same breath as the one in in the Northeast but it ain't close. That team only continues to win when Brady goes down.
I will note, I will be more than happy to eat crow for this post if things turn around but I ain't optimistic about it.
Last time Aaron went down we made the playoffs. The guy in the Northeast did not without Brady. NEXT!
NE missed the playoffs, but they won 11 games doing it, all without Brady. The Packers were 8-7-1 with Rodgers for half the season, and barely squeaked in. Important to note that, I think.
Which is more important? Making the playoffs or beating 11 ****ty teams?
packerboi posted:michiganjoe posted:Hundley needs to play better but MM needs to remove the shackles and let him play.
Hundley shouldn't have a basic knowledge of the offense. Or just know the framework.
No. He should know this offense UP and Down. Sideways and forwards and backwards. He's had 3 years to sit and watch and observe. He's had 3 years to pick Aaron's brain and take everything in each week he stood and had a front row seat on the sidelines.
This isn't Seneca Wallace we're talking about or even Scott Tolzein. That MM is handcuffing him this much in 7 quarters of play means he either doesn't trust Hundley (then why is he starting?) OR his QB develop system is more smoke and mirrors.
I'll give MM the bye and another home opportunity for Hundley in 2 weeks. If things aren't seriously opened up and your not seeing #7 passing the ball and at least trying to take shots down the field, then there's a major problem with MM's system.
Saints aren’t exactly a murderers row...at home, healthy OTs.... we should have won this game. Equal blame on Hundley and D. You’ve got Jordy, Cobb and Tae...you can’t compete more passes than that? GAFB
I think this team is emotionally lost without Rodgers. No one has stepped into the vacuum left by him, and MM hasn't adjusted yet either. Instead he's calling plays to not lose rather than win. I say "yet" because MM made some moves last year to get the team on track, and hopefully he can do the same after the bye this year. But this team needs a new mindset. Rally 'round, next man up, whatever, it can't be just words any more; it has to be a mindset.
That and they need to get rid of Compers.
Goalline posted:Which is more important? Making the playoffs or beating 11 ****ty teams?
I'll put it this way, how many games do you imagine that 2013 team would have won if Rodgers tore his ACL in the first quarter of the first game? If you say they still would have won enough to make the playoffs, you're just a goofy person.
+ looks like Dom Capers will be the presenter for Drew Brees when he enters the hall of fame
+ McCarthy's lack of success without an all world QB surely has to bring the step of an all new coaching staff closer---it appears it's the only way to purge Capers......Mike Sherman was a highly successful football coach---nobody, but nobody missed him
curious what Callahan wouldve done today
I was really looking for the team to rally around the loss of AR and step up their play. Looked good for a series or 2 then went downhill from there.Pretty much exposed as Rodgers and the 7 dwarfs. Thats what happens when you have a team that revolves so much around 1 player.
New England is a much different situation because they have a more plug and play system on offense. weve seen backups and rookies come in and have success early.
Any chance at reviving the season lies with the Detroit game. Drop that one with the kind of putrid play we saw today and we're in big trouble.
I think this will force Ted to look at drafting or acquiring a qb this spring
Pack-Man posted:Goalline posted:Which is more important? Making the playoffs or beating 11 ****ty teams?
I'll put it this way, how many games do you imagine that 2013 team would have won if Rodgers tore his ACL in the first quarter of the first game? If you say they still would have won enough to make the playoffs, you're just a goofy person.
**** you, you can’t read that which did not materialize either. Bury your holier than thou attitude up your ass and admit you are stupid fool.
To me this isn’t something that needs to be rationalized- without Rodgers, this is an average at best football team coached by average at best coaches. Didn’t think that was true before. Pretty convinced now.
I had such high hopes for 2017.
Goalline posted:Pack-Man posted:Goalline posted:Which is more important? Making the playoffs or beating 11 ****ty teams?
I'll put it this way, how many games do you imagine that 2013 team would have won if Rodgers tore his ACL in the first quarter of the first game? If you say they still would have won enough to make the playoffs, you're just a goofy person.
**** you, you can’t read that which did not materialize either. Bury your holier than though attitude up your ass and admit you are stupid fool.
Music City posted:To me this isn’t something that needs to be rationalized- without Rodgers, this is an average at best football team coached by average at best coaches. Didn’t think that was true before. Pretty convinced now.
I had such high hopes for 2017.
Dagger
Pack-Man posted:Goalline posted:Pack-Man posted:Goalline posted:Which is more important? Making the playoffs or beating 11 ****ty teams?
I'll put it this way, how many games do you imagine that 2013 team would have won if Rodgers tore his ACL in the first quarter of the first game? If you say they still would have won enough to make the playoffs, you're just a goofy person.
**** you, you can’t read that which did not materialize either. Bury your holier than though attitude up your ass and admit you are stupid fool.
The hope I had was that there is not a truly dominant team in the NFL and that Green Bay could somehow sneak into the Super Bowl and upset somebody---not unlike 2011...The shellacking at Atlanta changed my mind, Rodgers injury removed all doubt....The problem is not Hundley ...the coaching staff is just getting handled. It is time to re-tool...even if it takes jettisoning Thompson.
I'd like to scheme against Capers, he just aint got it no more---How many looks has he had against the Saints? They have more film than MGM. It looked like it was the first game this defense had ever played.....And McCarthy---running those slow developing sweeps....what are you doing?---Jones is having great success with quick hits and full back leads against the N.O undersized defense......nope we're going to string it outside --playing right into N.Os strength in speed......McCarthy was a great offensive game coordinator--so was Mike Holmgren....he has reached his expiration date...it's plain to see when Rodgers is not bailing him out.....
I actually like Hundley...I think if they let him open up the offense he'll win a couple of games...They need to sign a Vet though, I've never understood how Callahan has kept a roster spot..we will be in the running for the number one pick if Hundley gets hurt.
Music City posted:To me this isn’t something that needs to be rationalized- without Rodgers, this is an average at best football team coached by average at best coaches. Didn’t think that was true before. Pretty convinced now.
I had such high hopes for 2017.
The disappointing thing is that they probably have more good players than they've had in the past 5 years. K. Clark and Mike Daniels may be as good a pair of interior DL as any team in the league has. CM3 is not what he was, but he still makes some impact plays. Martinez finally gives them a decent ILB. Perry is a good player. Burnett and Dix (even with his recent regression) are a good safety tandem. House and King at least put up some resistance at CB. Bak and Bulaga are clearly upper tier in terms of pairs of OTs. Aaron Jones is a real find. The TEs are at least a threat again. When you look at the team this year and consider who the preferred starters are, who do you really look at and think - Wow this guy is awful and needs to be replaced immediately? In previous years, you would see guys out there getting a lot of snaps like Hawk, Brad Jones, the 2016 versions of Randall and Rollins, MD Jennings, the 2016 version of James Starks, Don Barclay, Marshall Newhouse, Richard Rodgers, etc. I think a lot of us could identify a few players every year that just sucked. This year, except for the injuries, you'd maybe say Randall, but I don't think there's anyone else obvious.
The problem is they went from the best player in the league as their QB to a guy (at least today) that looked like someone who can't make the throws an NFL QB needs to be able to make to be competitive.
Anthony Barr took this team from being 6-1 to 4-3 right now. If Rodgers doesn't get hurt, they were on track to go about 13-3 and play home playoff games. Now, I think that 6-10 is in play. We'll find out more against the Lions, but unless Hundley comes out in two weeks and establishes he can make the 15 yard out throws, teams will know they only have to cover inside the hash marks and put 9 guys in the box. The offense will stay really ugly.
I had high hopes that our defense would be much improved this year, but it is looking like it was false hope. The "parts" on defense certainly look better than the "whole" right now.
FLPACKER posted:I had high hopes that our defense would be much improved this year, but it is looking like it was false hope. The "parts" on defense certainly look better than the "whole" right now.
The defense is much better. They had trouble with Atlanta and Dallas, but those are good teams that will put up points on a lot of defenses.
In the other 5 games, they've given up
9 - Seattle
17 - Bengals (Rodgers threw a pick 6)
14- Bears
23 -Vikings (no second half TDs)
26- Saints (1 second half TD)
All of those defensive points would be good enough to win with Rodgers at QB. It's not like they are giving up 40 points and not giving the offense a chance to win. Brees is going to the HOF. If the Green Bay defense got to play against Hundley like he played today, they'd have looked pretty damn good too.
I'd like to have the early 2000s Ravens or the 1985 Bears defense too, but that's not what we have. What we have is more than good enough to win with Rodgers, but not with an offense that's going to struggle to put up 20 points every game.
I still think that our individual talent on defense is better than what the defense is playing as a whole. Watching the Patriots right now, whose defense has really struggled this year, but at the moment have shut out Falcons. Do they really have better players on defense than we do?
It's not the points they give up, it's the inability to stop the other team at crucial times. Every third-and-long is a nail-biter as to if they stop them or not. They give up ground faster than the Oklahoma land rush, and then try to hold them from the 20 in. If they need a stop to get the other team's O off the field, they can't get it.
While MM makes adjustments at halftime, I don't think Dom even thinks about what the other team might do differently, much less has a plan for when it does. He's like a deer in headlights who never saw the car coming.
+ Seeing plenty of nice bucks. Should be able to find plenty to do on game days.
- Losing A-Rod is making MM and Capers look even worse.
Don’t get me wrong I don’t want to excuse the ineptitude on offense in 2nd half but the defense could have at least stopped one of the 2nd half Saints possessions. We did have a lead in the 2nd half after all.
And yes the individual talent looks better just as a whole it’s not and that again screams coaching.
Pack-Man posted:Esox posted:Pack-Man posted:The receivers are all over-rated and overpaid. None of them possess the talent needed to be a star on a team with an average QB. Look at Greg Jennings and James Jones when they tried to play elsewhere. Rodgers makes them what they are.
Disagree
Who's the star? Who is going to be the Terrell Owens or Randy Moss who can overcome poor QB play? Get back to me in week 17 and tell me I'm wrong. None of these guys will come close to 1000 yards. Based on how they look today and last week, 700 yards may be asking too much, even for the "top" receiver.
Apples to oranges. Are you saying that Hundley, the D and the rest of the team are at least average? WRs are the least of concerns. However, the TEs do suck! I really do not think Moss or Owens would have done any better.
Tale of two halves.
14-7
3-19
WolfPack posted:if Hundley has another passing rating in the 30.0 range against Detroit, Im gonna lean towards "He just aint got it"....
Fair enough
From my amateur perspective the game turned on the Packers second drive. 3rd and 1 and MM called a pass to Adams that no hope of being a completion. Even if Adams catches that he more than likely would have been tackled short of 1st down yardage. RTFB, get the 1st down and the fair catch penalty doesn't happen.
Also why the 59 yard FG at the half. Man up and throw a Hail Mary or at least a quick out to get 10 yards or so. . Maybe you get a catch or a PI. No way was Crosby making a 59 yarder in todays conditions.
And while Jones had some good runs in the 2nd half the passing game was abysmal.
I don't agree the talent on defense is very good. Clark is coming on, Daniels is disruptive, Perry and Matthews are solid and with Burnett hurt, that's really the upper-tier players right now with Clinton-Dix's .....regression(?).
Martinez is average, which looks good relative to recent history. King and Jones are rookie-ing the heck out of things, making as many mistakes as plays. At least they look fairly promising, the rest of the defense is just guys with maybe Lowry ascending.
Fandame posted:It's not the points they give up, it's the inability to stop the other team at crucial times. Every third-and-long is a nail-biter as to if they stop them or not. They give up ground faster than the Oklahoma land rush, and then try to hold them from the 20 in. If they need a stop to get the other team's O off the field, they can't get it.
While MM makes adjustments at halftime, I don't think Dom even thinks about what the other team might do differently, much less has a plan for when it does. He's like a deer in headlights who never saw the car coming.
But aren't you describing what most fans in the league are thinking when their defense is playing against Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Roethlisberger, and a few others?
Here's Rodgers stats this year with 3rd and at least 9 to go. Basically, half the time he converts. When Rodgers (or Brees, etc.) go back to pass in those situations you're thinking they are going to get it. When Hundley goes back in that situation, I'm thinking - just don't throw a pick.
| 3rd (or 4th) down and 9+ yards to go | 8 | 15 | 148 | 53.3 | 9.87 |
MichiganPacker2 posted:The biggest minus is that it doesn't look like Hundley can make the key throws that a good NFL QB needs to make (or at least MM doesn't seem to think so). No outs, no post patterns, no slants, no back shoulder throws. It was all dump downs, under routes after guys run off the coverage deep for 5 yard gains, and flairs out of the backfield. The last Hundley threw showed why they don't trust him. A wounded duck over the middle. Other than that, an under thrown bomb to Jordy, a jump ball to Cobb, and a throw to Adams that was too far outside. Hundley didn't make any mistakes and the OL had a good day blocking for the run (or at least Jones made it look good) and Hundley still couldn't make anything happen in the air after a full week of starters reps and three training camps.
Basically, a report card for downfield throws - well, not a good grade. Not good at all.
Goalline posted:. Finally all you tankers, season lost folks why the hell do you still watch if your are so convinced.?
Watching this crappy team? Just a bad habit. I should attend football AA or something.
Whaaat? I thought this was the football AA. My bad.
ammo posted:From my amateur perspective the game turned on the Packers second drive. 3rd and 1 and MM called a pass to Adams that no hope of being a completion. .
Yeah, that was one hellavah f'd up call. Where's my IPA?
Johnson posted:I actually like Hundley...I think if they let him open up the offense he'll win a couple of games...They need to sign a Vet though, I've never understood how Callahan has kept a roster spot..we will be in the running for the number one pick if Hundley gets hurt.
Why? What has Hundley shown that would lead you to think he just needs to be unleashed.