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MichiganPacker2 posted:
Fandame posted:

It's not the points they give up, it's the inability to stop the other team at crucial times. Every third-and-long is a nail-biter as to if they stop them or not. They give up ground faster than the Oklahoma land rush, and then try to hold them from the 20 in. If they need a stop to get the other team's O off the field, they can't get it.

While MM makes adjustments at halftime, I don't think Dom even thinks about what the other team might do differently, much less has a plan for when it does. He's like a deer in headlights who never saw the car coming.

But aren't you describing what most fans in the league are thinking when their defense is playing against Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Roethlisberger, and a few others? 

Here's Rodgers stats this year with 3rd and at least 9 to go. Basically, half the time he converts. When Rodgers (or Brees, etc.) go back to pass in those situations you're thinking they are going to get it. When Hundley goes back in that situation, I'm thinking - just don't throw a pick. 

3rd (or 4th) down and 9+ yards to go81514853.39.87

Yeah, that may be true against an elite QB that they'll make it half the time, but I'm holding my breath against Trubisky, Dalton, Keenum, et al. 

Grave Digger posted:

+ the inability of some of you to handle adversity (can we even call our favorite team losing โ€œadversityโ€?) is both disturbing and hilarious. โ€œEvery player on the team sucksโ€ seems to be the latest drunk consensus.

- X4 is going to be the Factory of Sadness for a while it seems. Itโ€™s a fun place to read, but dodging the stream of pessimism is going to be tough.

The X4 logo should be replaced with this pic for a while:

I told people to couch their expectations.  It must be the QB controversy.  

ammo posted:

From my amateur perspective the game turned on the Packers second drive. 3rd and 1 and MM called a pass to Adams that no hope of being a completion. Even if Adams catches that he more than likely would have been tackled short of 1st down yardage.  RTFB, get the 1st down  and the fair catch penalty  doesn't happen

Good post.  I screamed the same thing at the TV when it happened.  Why?  Why that play call?  Absolutely horrendous.  RTFB.  Keep moving the chains.

Tschmack posted:

+++

Ran the Fall 50 in Door County in glorious conditions - and Ma Nature spared us for 24 hours with the monsoon today. 

A Jones.  We may actually have found a legit RB.  He was the lone bright spot. 

MM owning the results in the presser.  He said he was "disgusted" of the second half effort and results.  I concur. 

The fans that gutted out that game today in schit conditions.  They deserved better. 

-----

J Jones.  He may have a bright future ahead of him but he was awful today. 

Run defense sucked.  Pass defense was worse.  Simply embarrassing performance when they needed to step up. 

Paging Jake Ryan and Kyle Fackrell.  Make a ****ing play. Just one.  Sincerely, the game of football. 

Monty - time to get healthy and get back to playing WR.  It ain't working man. 

The OL.  They got manhandled today.  By the Saints.  Not exactly the Steel Curtain.  Where's the pride and effort?

 

 

I am not sure if you have been paying much attention to the Saints D or not.

After getting a**-raped the first 2 weeks of the season, both huge losses with a lot of yards and points against, they have been very good.

Positives? 

A. Jones gives us something out of the RB position they have needed

Martinez is playing his heart out and Matthews is still making a difference

They have the bye week to get healthy and work with BH

I didn't see any major injuries

Negatives:

Zone defense

The defense looking like it was on roller skates especially in the 2nd half

Defense making decent stops on 1st and 2nd downs and gave up 3rd down conversions consistently

Defense was on the field for 72 plays

Dom is still employed

Sense a theme from me on the defense?

 

I have to admit...I'm beginning to get uninspired with MM's system.  Rodgers looks great in it, but it is very telling to me that he depends on Rodgers more than Rodgers depends on him.  I watch a good amount of other NFL games and those offenses seem to be much more creative than what MM does.  Rodgers would put up crazy numbers in a lot of those systems based on what "average" QBs on those teams are doing.  Pittsburgh, Philly, Jacksonville, LA Rams, obviously NE.   It's just become increasingly clear that MM's offensive success stems from Rodgers being able to buy time for receivers to get open, rather than an offensive scheme that gets players open for him to find.

I watch what Pittsburgh, Philly, even NE and others and can't help but wonder what our QBs and WRs would do in those offenses.  I think the offense has a ton of talent, but MM's scheme isn't really working in their favor.

Defense, I'm beyond even caring anymore.  It's the same thing every year.  Has TT hit on all the defensive draft picks, of course not.  But there certainly is plenty of talent there, way too much for the same basic mistakes to be made over and over and over.  TEs and the middle of the field are always wide open.  Been that way for years.  Again, I don't think Compers' scheme is a fit for these players.

Positives: Aaron Jones, Martinez, Matthews, Kenny Clark, McCray, the two INTs and Perry's sacking Brees-both have rarely happened to Brees this season. 

Negatives: How our Defense couldn't get out of each other's way. The Saints moving the ball at will. All the 3 and outs we had. It may be early to judge Hundley, but, this week, Aaron Rodgers' long term replacement is not on this team. We had no time outs to use in, at least, the last five minutes of the game. How our defensive scheme can leave half the field uncovered on plays. What positions do we draft, trade or go into FA for to fix this team? 

YATittle posted:

And McCarthy---running those slow developing sweeps....what are you doing?---Jones is having great success with quick hits and full back leads against the N.O undersized defense......nope we're going to string it outside --playing right into N.Os strength in speed

 

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We do what we do. Which is dumb.

I think the fact that New Orleans started putting 9 guys in the box is what contributed to this. You can't run between the tackles if you don't have enough guys to block everyone, so they try to run stretch plays to get the edge or hope cutback lanes are there. Of course, the best way to beat this is to run play action and hit guys behind the linebackers down the seams, but either Hundley isn't capable of making those throws or MM isn't comfortable with Hundley making those throws. 

Last edited by MichiganPacker

+

1. Jones

2. 9-7 may win the division, 10-6 will make the Playoffs. If Rodgers can throw in Week 6 of recovery and be back for the Panthers, Vikings, and Lions then we only need to squeak out at least 2-3 wins until then. We get the Brown, Bucs, Ravens, Bears before Week 15. We went 2-4 without Rodgers last time and made the Playoffs in Week 17 in 2013.

 

-

1. Giving up 500 yards on a wet field after winning the turnover battle.

2. Defensive halftime "adjustments."

3. Play calling (i.e., refusing to run screen passes and utilize tight end dump downs when the Saints adjusted to stop Jones.

4. If they keep losing Rodgers will not step on the field this season at all--even if he's cleared.

Last edited by NumberThree
Maynard posted:

I have to admit...I'm beginning to get uninspired with MM's system.  Rodgers looks great in it, but it is very telling to me that he depends on Rodgers more than Rodgers depends on him.  I watch a good amount of other NFL games and those offenses seem to be much more creative than what MM does.  Rodgers would put up crazy numbers in a lot of those systems based on what "average" QBs on those teams are doing.  Pittsburgh, Philly, Jacksonville, LA Rams, obviously NE.   It's just become increasingly clear that MM's offensive success stems from Rodgers being able to buy time for receivers to get open, rather than an offensive scheme that gets players open for him to find.

I watch what Pittsburgh, Philly, even NE and others and can't help but wonder what our QBs and WRs would do in those offenses.  I think the offense has a ton of talent, but MM's scheme isn't really working in their favor.

Defense, I'm beyond even caring anymore.  It's the same thing every year.  Has TT hit on all the defensive draft picks, of course not.  But there certainly is plenty of talent there, way too much for the same basic mistakes to be made over and over and over.  TEs and the middle of the field are always wide open.  Been that way for years.  Again, I don't think Compers' scheme is a fit for these players.

I agree with your thoughts on the D I watch the games and just go meh the Packers are on D so if something good happens I will be happy but many times I just shake my head.  It seems like game after game and season after season that they just let someone run free over the middle.  There always seems to be one player from each opponent that does that and there are never adjustments being made to stop it.  The other thing is physicality on D.  I watch a lot of other teams and many defenses have that edge, nastiness, and attitude that comes with good defenses.  It has been years since we have had that.  I do believe the players are there for the D to work I just think the coaching just isn't there.



Lost my dad to cancer in '72, not long after Lombardi passed. Dad loved Lombardi and the 60's Packers. He thought the world of Starr, the man. I remember very well watching those games with my dad. Starr will always be the best Packers QB in my lifetime. 

Hungry5 posted:


Lost my dad to cancer in '72, not long after Lombardi passed. Dad loved Lombardi and the 60's Packers. He thought the world of Starr, the man. I remember very well watching those games with my dad. Starr will always be the best Packers QB in my lifetime. 

That's a tough loss, even 45 years later.

Completely agree on your take of Starr. Favre revitalized the franchise in the 1990s, Rodgers continued on the tradition, but Starr/Lombardi was--and will always be--its foundation.

Does anyone subscribe to McGinn's new website? His headline pinned this on the coaches and was curious to hear what he wrote.

What's plaguing this team is the same thing that has happened in recent years:

1) The defensive system stinks. Yes, TT has missed on picks and there have been injuries. But any veteran good QB can just carve them up at will. 

2) The offensive system is completely predictable. MM deserves credit for developing 12 into an elite QB. But it's clear that MM cannot scheme anyone open. 12 does it himself by extending plays and rifling balls into the smallest of windows. Not a surprise that Hundley can't do the same. When NE was without Brady, that team managed to scheme guys open for back-up QBs. MM can't do it.

3) Not a factor in this game b/c tackles finally played entire game, but TT is the only GM in the league who sits on his hands and watches guards try to play tackle despite having the most valuable QB in the league back there.

This is the downside of not having an owner. TT, MM, Capers - they all need to go. They deserve praise for bringing a trophy to GB. But their act is beyond stale. It's time to move on and get a GM like Dorsey who will inject athleticism and talent through all possible channels and coaches who have the creativity to adjust and allow all players to succeed, not just the ones who are best in the league. Will be an interesting off-season. Murphy has his standard excuse (injuries) to not make changes.

After a day to digest the game, I think McCarthy was maybe trying to protect Hundley yesterday and put the onus on other parts of the team to win the game.  Obviously, they showed they are not up to the task defensively to slow down someone as accomplished as Brees is.  I think McCarthy may loosen the reins on Hundley a bit more for the next outing.  That could be a good thing, or it could go south if Hundley ends up having a 3 INT day or something like that. 

That said... I think he may need to let Hundley sink or swim.  I don't know that he totally gave him a fair shot in this last game.  That said, maybe the reason he held back is he really truly doesn't believe Hundley can handle a high volume passing game without making too many mistakes.  I guess we will find out soon after the bye. 

Rockin' Robin posted:

3) Not a factor in this game b/c tackles finally played entire game, but TT is the only GM in the league who sits on his hands and watches guards try to play tackle despite having the most valuable QB in the league back there.

To be fair, the Pack has had an incredible amount of injuries at the tackle position and I don't think there is a GM out there that wouldn't struggle to fill a tackle spot when the first 4 tackles on the depth chart go down.   Lane Taylor was only forced to play tackle when 4 other guys went down and then he got hurt which forced them to go to their 6th option.  I don't know how many GMs keep 5 tackles, but I think even a team like New England would struggle to figure out what to do if they lost their top 4 OTs.  

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