Agree DB. This offense has been anything but predictable this year and that may be there biggest asset. It becomes much more difficult for teams to take away their strongest threat. LaFleur is mixing it up very well. Compare this with 1-2 years ago. I think they're still developing in terms of being able to make it all flow flawlessly, hence the delays and slow communications. I'm expecting it to continue to improve.

Ubetcha posted:

Agree DB. This offense has been anything but predictable this year and that may be there biggest asset. It becomes much more difficult for teams to take away their strongest threat. LaFleur is mixing it up very well. Compare this with 1-2 years ago. I think they're still developing in terms of being able to make it all flow flawlessly, hence the delays and slow communications. I'm expecting it to continue to improve.

It's nice to see a coach who mixes and matches according to the opponent rather than the stale same ol', same ol' every week. Yes, he has to smooth out the playcalling a bit after the first 15 to make the game flow better, but that will hopefully come in time. 

As NostraBoris has pointed out, this team really hasn't put together a complete game yet where Offense and Defense are both firing on all cylinders.  When that happens, this team will be lethal.  Hopefully it clicks in starting in late December.

I am not counting on the Special Teams, they  don't have any firing cylinders.  Hell, I don't think they heave heard about this invention called the wheel yet.

The “Aaron Rodgers underthrowing a deep ball” is really becoming a problem. The secondary dropping game-changing interception is becoming a problem. 

This team has aspirations of championship glory, and the plays are there to be made, and they’re not making them. Rodgers apologists never want to talk about this, but he’s making the money he makes for a reason. He’s not supposed to be pretty good. He has to hit the target 99.9% of the time. 

Music City posted:

The “Aaron Rodgers underthrowing a deep ball” is really becoming a problem. The secondary dropping game-changing interception is becoming a problem. 

This team has aspirations of championship glory, and the plays are there to be made, and they’re not making them. Rodgers apologists never want to talk about this, but he’s making the money he makes for a reason. He’s not supposed to be pretty good. He has to hit the target 99.9% of the time. 

Really?! Can you help me out with the name of a QB that's done this, ever? The record for completion percentage in a season is held by Drew Brees of the New Orleans Saints who completed 74.4% of his passes in 2018.

Pistol GB posted:

The safety was deep on that "underthrown" ball to MVS.  I thought he put it exactly where his 6'4 receiver could go up and get it in front of and over the 6'1 safety.  Valdez-Scantling should have had that.

Yup.  That was supposed to be a jump ball for MVS to win.

Ubetcha posted:
Music City posted:

The “Aaron Rodgers underthrowing a deep ball” is really becoming a problem. The secondary dropping game-changing interception is becoming a problem. 

This team has aspirations of championship glory, and the plays are there to be made, and they’re not making them. Rodgers apologists never want to talk about this, but he’s making the money he makes for a reason. He’s not supposed to be pretty good. He has to hit the target 99.9% of the time. 

Really?! Can you help me out with the name of a QB that's done this, ever? The record for completion percentage in a season is held by Drew Brees of the New Orleans Saints who completed 74.4% of his passes in 2018.

Understand the context- a play caller sets a series of plays in motion, setting up a single high safety and a one on one matchup for a WR. You spend several play calls setting this up- waiting for the time to strike- and you get it. The WR has 2 steps on the nearest defender. It’s everything you were trying to accomplish... and the QBs underthrows the ball and allows a beaten defender back into the play causing an incomplete pass. From the guy who cannot miss that throw. 

That’s the context. You can talk about irrelevant completion % and completely miss the point- which is simple... Aaron Rodgers cannot miss that throw. It is often the difference between winning and losing when the games matter the most. You pay that guy $100M+ to ensure that throw gets completed. 

Music City posted:
Ubetcha posted:
Music City posted:

The “Aaron Rodgers underthrowing a deep ball” is really becoming a problem. The secondary dropping game-changing interception is becoming a problem. 

This team has aspirations of championship glory, and the plays are there to be made, and they’re not making them. Rodgers apologists never want to talk about this, but he’s making the money he makes for a reason. He’s not supposed to be pretty good. He has to hit the target 99.9% of the time. 

Really?! Can you help me out with the name of a QB that's done this, ever? The record for completion percentage in a season is held by Drew Brees of the New Orleans Saints who completed 74.4% of his passes in 2018.

Understand the context- a play caller sets a series of plays in motion, setting up a single high safety and a one on one matchup for a WR. You spend several play calls setting this up- waiting for the time to strike- and you get it. The WR has 2 steps on the nearest defender. It’s everything you were trying to accomplish... and the QBs underthrows the ball and allows a beaten defender back into the play causing an incomplete pass. From the guy who cannot miss that throw. 

That’s the context. You can talk about irrelevant completion % and completely miss the point- which is simple... Aaron Rodgers cannot miss that throw. It is often the difference between winning and losing when the games matter the most. You pay that guy $100M+ to ensure that throw gets completed. 

So the amount you pay a QB ensures he completes passes?

Music City posted:
Ubetcha posted:
Music City posted:

The “Aaron Rodgers underthrowing a deep ball” is really becoming a problem. The secondary dropping game-changing interception is becoming a problem. 

This team has aspirations of championship glory, and the plays are there to be made, and they’re not making them. Rodgers apologists never want to talk about this, but he’s making the money he makes for a reason. He’s not supposed to be pretty good. He has to hit the target 99.9% of the time. 

Really?! Can you help me out with the name of a QB that's done this, ever? The record for completion percentage in a season is held by Drew Brees of the New Orleans Saints who completed 74.4% of his passes in 2018.

Understand the context- a play caller sets a series of plays in motion, setting up a single high safety and a one on one matchup for a WR. You spend several play calls setting this up- waiting for the time to strike- and you get it. The WR has 2 steps on the nearest defender. It’s everything you were trying to accomplish... and the QBs underthrows the ball and allows a beaten defender back into the play causing an incomplete pass. From the guy who cannot miss that throw. 

That’s the context. You can talk about irrelevant completion % and completely miss the point- which is simple... Aaron Rodgers cannot miss that throw. It is often the difference between winning and losing when the games matter the most. You pay that guy $100M+ to ensure that throw gets completed. 

Yes, I get the difference between intended outcome and what really happens. Wouldn't it be great if you could just spend a pile of money and know that everything will fall into place (see Kirk Cousins/Vikings)? Rodgers will make mistakes and miss some easy ones but I think he brings much more to the table to make up for them. Whether it's a $100M or some other number is just a factor of where NFL salaries are now. Do the Packers still beat the Chiefs if AR doesn't make a sick throw to Williams? You pay the money and take your chances. Not saying I like it, but it's reality.

Ubetcha,

In this case, I can't help but factor in comparing Rodgers today to Rodgers a couple years ago.  Rodgers in his prime was such a treat and it's hard to see less than that.

Of course, no one is immune to Father Time.  There is no doubt in my mind that Rodger's mobility has lessened.  As to the extent of his some time inaccurate passes?  Have no idea if the cause is age or something else.

Of course, the whole Father Time thing happens to all of them, if they play long enough.  The first time I really noticed it with Favre was a playoff game against the Vikings.  Pack was near the goal line and he could have easily run it for the TD.  Instead he threw a pass.  It may have been intercepted, I don't remember.  I do know the Pack did not get the TD.

Then there was that freezing game against the Bears.  He wanted no part of it.

Rodgers in his prime has been an incredible treat.  It's hard facing the reality that maybe those days are no more.

You are correct. Let's hope he makes a graceful transition and changes his game accordingly. I think it's already begun with LeFleur's offense kind of forcing him to adapt for his own good. The Favre images are burned in my brain. The lasting one being his INT vs the Giants, NFC championship game. Ugh! He looked like a Popsicle, just wanted to get it over with. 

phaedrus posted:

Of course, the whole Father Time thing happens to all of them, if they play long enough.  The first time I really noticed it with Favre was a playoff game against the Vikings.  Pack was near the goal line and he could have easily run it for the TD.  Instead he threw a pass.  It may have been intercepted, I don't remember.  I do know the Pack did not get the TD.

Wasn't that the one where he was also beyond the line of scrimmage?  So penalty + loss of down.  

I don't doubt it.  Hanging the entire season on a QB with a new coach, young questionable receivers and now a shift up in RBs being a big element in the passing game may have just a teensy weensy bit to do with it. 

A lot of time was wasted (McVince, McVince, McVince).  You can't recoup and regenerate in half a season.

DH is correct. 
I'll never forget that play. It was bad enough that he threw that pass knowing damn full well he was past LOS, but it was THE moment I knew he was no longer the "warrior"he was portrayed as. 
And it pissed me off he thought it was so funny afterward, having a big laugh about it after the play. 

If memory is still serving, we were behind in that game, and had reached a point of desperation, so the ultimate outcome may not have changed if he would have attempted to run it in.
But being able to see he no longer cared was unmistakable.

Here's the game:
https://www.pro-football-refer...res/200501090gnb.htm

Pack was down 24-10.  If you scroll way down, there is a play by play.  It was just before the end of the first half.

3rd and 6 at the 8, 29s left in 2nd quarter.
Brett Favre right end for 3 yards.  Penalty on Brett Favre.  Illegal forward pass.

Favre had 4 interceptions.  Game was in Lambeau.  Najeh (poopoo) Davenport scored a TD for the Pack!

(Can you imagine Rodgers throwing 4 int's?)

Timmy! posted:

DH is correct. 
I'll never forget that play. It was bad enough that he threw that pass knowing damn full well he was past LOS, but it was THE moment I knew he was no longer the "warrior"he was portrayed as. 
And it pissed me off he thought it was so funny afterward, having a big laugh about it after the play. 

If memory is still serving, we were behind in that game, and had reached a point of desperation, so the ultimate outcome may not have changed if he would have attempted to run it in.
But being able to see he no longer cared was unmistakable.

I think there were signs of decline even before this, but I agree this play sort of confirmed it.  When Favre was winning MVPs, there was no hesitancy in his game.  When he was a younger guy, he trusted his legs enough to go full bore to dive for a 1st down or TD.  By that 2004/05 playoff game, he didn't trust his legs anymore and it caused some hesitation in his game that was costly at times. 

The good news.... that same hesitancy in his game would rear it's ugly head as a VIking when if he had chosen to scramble instead of throw, he would have given the Vikes a fighting chance to win that game vs. New Orleans in the '09 Championship game.

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