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@Henry posted:

An example of why it's non-negotiable is the meat packers.  They would be immediately sued.   Calling themselves essential when they had record shipments to China.

Yep. And the general attitude of a lot of people was expressed by one of the conservative Wisconsin justice. Basically, because the meatpacking workers are heavily non-white, they don't count as much. 

https://www.inquirer.com/news/...acism--20200516.html

Earlier this week, the Supreme Court of Wisconsin overturned Gov. Tony Evers’ order for state residents to stay at home to contain the coronavirus.

During the course of arguments, Chief Justice Patience Roggensack was commenting on a spike in COVID-19 cases at a meatpacking plant when she observed, "These were due to the meatpacking, though. That’s where Brown County got the flare.

“It wasn’t just the regular folks in Brown County.”

Yep. And the general attitude of a lot of people was expressed by one of the conservative Wisconsin justice. Basically, because the meatpacking workers are heavily non-white, they don't count as much. 

https://www.inquirer.com/news/...acism--20200516.html

Earlier this week, the Supreme Court of Wisconsin overturned Gov. Tony Evers’ order for state residents to stay at home to contain the coronavirus.

During the course of arguments, Chief Justice Patience Roggensack was commenting on a spike in COVID-19 cases at a meatpacking plant when she observed, "These were due to the meatpacking, though. That’s where Brown County got the flare.

“It wasn’t just the regular folks in Brown County.”

I was in SDAK in May when the Souix Falls plants  had their outbreaks.  One of their dopey state senators said the reason the workers got the virus was because they lived in squalid, cramped and overcrowded housing.  Well duh, pay them a white mans wage and  perhaps they could improve their living conditions.

@mrtundra posted:

The Obama/Biden team had a plan to combat Ebola and contain it. The Obama/ Biden team beat it into submission. The Trump/Pence team had no plan, at all, to fight the coronavirus and only yesterday, mentioned they are working on a "strategy" to fight coronavirus. A little too late for almost 140,000 dead Americans. Trump tossed the Dubya Bush and Obama playbook for fighting a contagion. This failure is all on Trump.

WTH does this even mean? You are making a comparison like, Obama/Biden was able to contain one large cow with three legs and Trump/Pence had no plan to contain mosquitoes. Ebola and this corona virus are far different pests. One is no well adapted to infecting humans the other was probably made to infect humans over all other mammals.

Seems to me that the best strategy to fight the corona virus has been the one that Sweden implemented. They protected old and sick people and asked others to distance.

Sweden didn't destroy their economy. They aren't borrowing trillions of dollars from their children and grandchildren. They didn't mask up. They have similar results as other countries with regards to deaths and it appears that their pandemic is over, or very close to being over, and herd immunity is probably happening.

 

 

This just in.  You're wrong.  

Sweden admitted their plan failed.  The high risk population was especially hard hit.  Sweden also isn't full of assholes.  Even without a lock down order most did the right things all on their own and they still didn't reach herd immunity.

The Ebola virus was a wake up to plan for ANY pandemic, not just Ebola.  Again, it was a PANDEMIC plan, not an Ebola plan.  Pretty sure they knew all about SARS, which was/is another variant of COVID.  Then that plan and stockpile was gutted. 

Also, I don't think many people give two fucks about this new found fiscal responsibility of republicans when they are about to be evicted and can't put food on the table.

But hey, the stock market is doing pretty swell.  Too bad it's a fucking fake economy propped up with trillions of taxpayer dollars.  Those fiscal hawks always seem to miss that point. 

 I hear New Zealand is doing just great these days.  Sports and everything happening.  What was that about destroying the economy?  You mean we could've bit the bullet for a couple of months, paid 80% of small and middle sized business to keep the economy going, which wouldn't even come to 1 trillion dollars in comparison to the blind 4 trillion handed out to Wall Street, and not watch the GDP take a historic shit with massive unemployment and people on the brink of homelessness and hunger?  BTW, this was Josh Hawley's and Primia Jayapal's plan and was proposed in the early days.  Funny, never saw the light of day.

We could now be dealing with tracing and controlling local outbreaks vs. refrigerated trucks to hold corpses.  

  

Last edited by Henry

It goes beyond all the information you provided Hank.  The C19 virus attacks those with chronic conditions much more harshly than those without.   

We are a nation of unhealthy people and you add in the risk taking nature of how most Americans act and behave and it’s a recipe for disaster.  

Just look at obesity statistics between the two countries.  31% v 10%.   Yet we should act more like Sweden?  OK then, a lot more people will get really sick and die.  That’s a great strategy assuming your IQ is the same as our national average BMI (28). 

The reality is had we developed a comprehensive national testing and tracing strategy and mandated masks earlier we’d likely be well past the worst of this.  But no.....not in ‘Murica where our leaders ignore health experts and claim their rights and freedoms are being trampled so you can get a goddamn haircut or tattoo or massage or drink at the local tavern.  I mean, fuckin A damn the torpedoes already and get me a Clorox injection. 

I often wonder if we actually tried to fail on purpose things could be this bad?  Yet every day I’m less disappointed by the suckage that occurs and the spread and deaths continue to rise virtually unchecked. The most powerful nation in the world with unlimited resources and we are getting lapped by New Zealand and South Korea.   So much winning my ass.  

 

Last edited by Tschmack

We were also lapped by Iceland, Denmark, and other countries. The biggest difference? Those countries looked around and thought of the good of everyone and not just their selfish selves. They also believe in *gasp* science. 

hate to even bring this up, but what went on at Lake Butte des Morts this past weekend...  maybe we need a lot of stupid people to die?    hey, let's stand around in our own piss and party on the covid!!!!   yeeeaaaww

and Sturgis......250,000 people expected this week in Sturgis......no masks, and when they all go back to their homes......that’s right, THE GAWD DAMN VIRUS will probably be brought back with them.      

Pandemics tend to be a little all consuming especially in the thread labeled "72 NFL Players Test Poz For Corona".

You want to know why it's so frustrating?  Because I want to watch fucking football but assholes in this country are likely going to make that impossible. 

So quite frankly, once people stop acting like fucking pricks so we can get back to some semblance of normal life then we can stop talking about it ad nauseum.

Last edited by Henry
@AtTheMurph posted:

WTH does this even mean? You are making a comparison like, Obama/Biden was able to contain one large cow with three legs and Trump/Pence had no plan to contain mosquitoes. Ebola and this corona virus are far different pests. One is no well adapted to infecting humans the other was probably made to infect humans over all other mammals.

Seems to me that the best strategy to fight the corona virus has been the one that Sweden implemented. They protected old and sick people and asked others to distance.

Sweden didn't destroy their economy. They aren't borrowing trillions of dollars from their children and grandchildren. They didn't mask up. They have similar results as other countries with regards to deaths and it appears that their pandemic is over, or very close to being over, and herd immunity is probably happening.

 

 

Right, probably. 

@Henry posted:

You want to know why it's so frustrating?  Because I want to watch fucking football but assholes in this country are likely going to make that impossible. 

And a super-large majority of those assholes are likely in the we want our sports demo. Just can't connect the dots. Covidiots.

@Fandame posted:

We were also lapped by Iceland, Denmark, and other countries. The biggest difference? Those countries looked around and thought of the good of everyone and not just their selfish selves. They also believe in *gasp* science. 

And they don't mask......makes one wonder.

They treat the virus like everyone should. They try to protect the people most at risk and not try to force everyone else into draconian BS like shutting down their business and sitting at home waiting for the govt cheese to arrive.

@AtTheMurph posted:

And they don't mask......makes one wonder.

They treat the virus like everyone should. They try to protect the people most at risk and not try to force everyone else into draconian BS like shutting down their business and sitting at home waiting for the govt cheese to arrive.

Did you know that Draco was an actual person? I didn't, until now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draco_(lawgiver)

A lucky positive test for the Vikes' Cameron Smith! Of course, one of us regular folk would have just keeled over, but good for him that they found it...  

From the Strib: "Vikings linebacker Cameron Smith said Saturday that COVID-19 screening may have saved his life.

"Smith, a 2019 fifth-round draft pick out of USC, said he’ll need open heart surgery to address a condition discovered after he tested positive and underwent additional cardiac screening. He was placed on the reserve/COVID-19 list on July 29 and will not play this season.

"'Earlier this week, I found out I need open heart surgery to fix a bicuspid aortic valve that I was born with,' Smith posted on his Instagram account. 'Although this will unfortunately end my 2020 season, it is really a blessing that we found this as my heart is severely enlarged and wouldn’t have lasted much longer.'”    Linky

He says he will be able to play again. Lucky, lucky man.

 

@H5 posted:

And a super-large majority of those assholes are likely in the we want our sports demo. Just can't connect the dots. Covidiots.

Like the knuckle dragger in Home Depot the other day with his Vikings hat on, his mask around his neck, eating a candy bar to have an excuse and walking up next to people. 

@Herschel posted:

Like the knuckle dragger in Home Depot the other day with his Vikings hat on, his mask around his neck, eating a candy bar to have an excuse and walking up next to people. 

Did you realize he was a knuckle dragger before or after you saw the hat?

@Thunderbird posted:

I found this interesting, i was thinking about getting a gaiter myself, glad I didn't.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyl...finds-183034882.html

I guess anything like a fleece poly actually breaks up droplets even more.  Apparently the disposable doc masks are the best outside of the N95 masks.

@Henry posted:

This just in.  You're wrong.  

Sweden admitted their plan failed.  The high risk population was especially hard hit.  Sweden also isn't full of assholes.  Even without a lock down order most did the right things all on their own and they still didn't reach herd immunity.

The Ebola virus was a wake up to plan for ANY pandemic, not just Ebola.  Again, it was a PANDEMIC plan, not an Ebola plan.  Pretty sure they knew all about SARS, which was/is another variant of COVID.  Then that plan and stockpile was gutted. 

Also, I don't think many people give two fucks about this new found fiscal responsibility of republicans when they are about to be evicted and can't put food on the table.

But hey, the stock market is doing pretty swell.  Too bad it's a fucking fake economy propped up with trillions of taxpayer dollars.  Those fiscal hawks always seem to miss that point. 

 I hear New Zealand is doing just great these days.  Sports and everything happening.  What was that about destroying the economy?  You mean we could've bit the bullet for a couple of months, paid 80% of small and middle sized business to keep the economy going, which wouldn't even come to 1 trillion dollars in comparison to the blind 4 trillion handed out to Wall Street, and not watch the GDP take a historic shit with massive unemployment and people on the brink of homelessness and hunger?  BTW, this was Josh Hawley's and Primia Jayapal's plan and was proposed in the early days.  Funny, never saw the light of day.

We could now be dealing with tracing and controlling local outbreaks vs. refrigerated trucks to hold corpses.  

  

This just in. I am not wrong. 

Sweden did not admit their plan failed. Here is the direct quote that led the hysterical media to get you to believe such BS; 

“Clearly, there is potential for improvement in what we have done in Sweden, still can’t give an exact answer on what other measures should have been taken. That question remains, I think.  Anders Tegnell - Swedens top epidemiologist.

He also said this two seeks ago: “It really is yet another sign that the Swedish strategy is working,” Tegnell said. "It is possible to slow contagion fast with the measures we are taking in Sweden.” That doesn't sound like an admission of failure to me, but maybe it does to you.

And based on what is happening now in Sweden where new infection rates are dropping quickly v. many other countries where rates are again spiking might lead one to think that maybe with a virus that cannot be contained that the best course of action is to protect those at greater risk and assume that everyone else if going to catch it until you can get to herd immunity and it goes away. 

The whole idea of lockdowns and everything else was to "flatten the curve" so that medical facilities were not over run. The assumption behind that strategy was that you cannot contain it. You can only slow it until enough people are immune it doesn't run wildly through the population. The narrative was changed to some new BS but some of us remember.

There are pandemics every 25 years or so. Ebola was never a worldwide pandemic because Ebola isn't airborne. And the plan for a pandemic is exactly what we have seen all over the globe. And how successful is it? I'd say not very. The virus is everywhere and was going to be everywhere no matter what we did short of killing everyone so they couldn't catch it. The activities that are required to keep urban lives going means you are going to spread the thing. It is a foregone conclusion.

And what Republicans have this new found fiscal responsibility? If they cannot put food on the table and are going to be evicted maybe we should ask them if they want to go back to work rather than forcing into poverty either now or later when they have to repay all that "free money" they get. The risks to 95% of the population are almost nil.

New Zealand is nothing like the entire USA. Might as well use the state of South Dakota as a comparison. But hey, they're doing great in Sioux Falls. hardly any cases, no lock down everyone is working so maybe we should do what they did? 

 

This from August 6th regarding Sweden:

 

Sweden has recorded almost 6000 COVID deaths compared with about 250 in Norway and just over 600 in Denmark, giving it one of the world's highest death rates. Stefan Löfven, the prime minister, has launched an inquiry into the handling of the pandemic. "We have thousands of dead. Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if," he said when announcing the inquiry in late June.Torbjörn Isaksson, chief analyst at Nordea Markets, warned that it was "too early to evaluate how different strategies to deal with COVID-19 have affected the economies".

         "Swedish GDP contracted much less in the first half of the year than for instance in the euro area, while some of our Nordic neighbours probably fared better than Sweden," he said. 

The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development has predicted Sweden will suffer a 6.7 per cent plunge in GDP this year if there is only one significant COVID wave. Norway and Denmark expect a smaller 6 per cent and 5.8 per cent hit while also containing the virus. There is growing evidence that stemming the health crisis is the key to strong recoveries, with life returning to relative normality in countries that successfully stemmed outbreaks.

@AtTheMurph posted:

This just in. I am not wrong. 

You're wrong.

Sweden's experiment failing. Economy contracting at same rate as the rest of Europe.

Sweden gained nothing from herd immunity attempt.

Sweden kept country relatively open but elderly paid the price.

Sweden has a higher rate of death per capita then the United States of Assholes.

Sweden did not admit their plan failed. Here is the direct quote that led the hysterical media to get you to believe such BS; 

“Clearly, there is potential for improvement in what we have done in Sweden, still can’t give an exact answer on what other measures should have been taken. That question remains, I think.  Anders Tegnell - Swedens top epidemiologist.

He also said this two seeks ago: “It really is yet another sign that the Swedish strategy is working,” Tegnell said. "It is possible to slow contagion fast with the measures we are taking in Sweden.” That doesn't sound like an admission of failure to me, but maybe it does to you.

What's the source and when?  Tegnell then said locking down wasn't a "long term solution".  No shit, that's why successful countries didn't do it.  They did a short lockdown and controlled the virus and are reopening.  Sweden didn't save their economy and their death rate is the worst in Europe.

The architect of Sweden's no-lockdown strategy said up to 30% of its population could now be immune to COVID-19, a claim not supported by data

In mid May, Professor Johan Giesecke, Sweden's former chief epidemiologist, asserted that Stockholm will reach “herd immunity” by June. He didn’t specify what percentage of the population would need to have been infected to reach this milestone.

A few days later, however, on May 21st, it was revealed by independent modelers in Sweden that despite adopting more relaxed measures to control the coronavirus, only 7.3% of people in Stockholm had been exposed to the virus by late April. This percentage is actually lower than estimates from several of the hardest hit cities in the world, such as Wuhan, Madrid, and New York, all of which were under lockdown. Moreover, it’s estimated that between 4%-7% of Sweden’s population has been infected to date. This is not materially different from country-wide estimates for France and Spain, two nations that imposed harsh lockdowns.

As of June 3rd, 4,542 people have died from Covid-19 in Sweden, a country with a population of 10 million. Neighbors Denmark, Finland and Norway - each with populations about half of Sweden’s - have recorded death tolls of 580, 321 and 237, respectively.

And based on what is happening now in Sweden where new infection rates are dropping quickly v. many other countries where rates are again spiking might lead one to think that maybe with a virus that cannot be contained that the best course of action is to protect those at greater risk and assume that everyone else if going to catch it until you can get to herd immunity and it goes away. 

Link?  Sweden is already warning of a second spike just like the rest of Europe.

The whole idea of lockdowns and everything else was to "flatten the curve" so that medical facilities were not over run. The assumption behind that strategy was that you cannot contain it. You can only slow it until enough people are immune it doesn't run wildly through the population. The narrative was changed to some new BS but some of us remember.

Again, link?  The idea was to control the virus. That's pretty much the plan.  If the idea was only to keep ICUs from being overrun then how did that work?  I guess investing in refrigerator trucks would've been wise.   The United States didn't have a plan and left some states to scramble to enforce while the lead fuckhead attacked those measures.  You have no leg to stand on.  The numbers are overwhelming.  Sweden actually had a plan even if it was flawed.  The U.S. did not.  It had nothing and that's why the numbers are spinning out of control.  We aren't even out of the first wave.  

There are pandemics every 25 years or so. Ebola was never a worldwide pandemic because Ebola isn't airborne. And the plan for a pandemic is exactly what we have seen all over the globe. And how successful is it? I'd say not very. The virus is everywhere and was going to be everywhere no matter what we did short of killing everyone so they couldn't catch it. The activities that are required to keep urban lives going means you are going to spread the thing. It is a foregone conclusion.

Not very?  Because you said so?  I'm not sure how you can look at countries reopening their economies with people resuming a semi normal life with sports and activities and say it's not working vs. the shit show here.  Choose to be willfully ignorant on someone else's time.  I don't take "opinion" as fact. 

And what Republicans have this new found fiscal responsibility? If they cannot put food on the table and are going to be evicted maybe we should ask them if they want to go back to work rather than forcing into poverty either now or later when they have to repay all that "free money" they get. The risks to 95% of the population are almost nil.

Except you're wrong again and the data shows it.  Don't fucking wandering into a gun fight with a spatula.  Your condescension is palatable and fucking revolting.  The economy tanked because of half baked efforts that were assailed by the sub human fuck who had plans waiting for him with new plans offered after he gutted the original plan.  All which could've stabilized the economy on a short term basis with a concerted national effort.  Already proven around the globe but somehow you think you're right?  Why is that?  Rhetorical.  I know country club bullshit when I hear it.

New Zealand is nothing like the entire USA. Might as well use the state of South Dakota as a comparison. But hey, they're doing great in Sioux Falls. hardly any cases, no lock down everyone is working so maybe we should do what they did? 

Do viruses spread differently in New Zealand vs. the rest of the world?  Typical lazy argument.  New Zealand is nothing like the U.S. because they take responsibility for their society.  Fact.  They have ZERO new cases.  Get back to me in a couple of months after that cesspool at Sturgis ends.  Guess you missed that whole Smithfield hot spot thing.  So if you want to take down to an even further micro level we'll start there.  

Oh BTW, you're still wrong and "because I said so" doesn't mean shit in the world of the rational.  

Last edited by Henry

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