Brainwashed Boris posted:Will you be mad if I like your post?
When I was a kid, I had a piano teacher who insisted on saying that humans get angry, and dogs go mad. 
“Don’t use the threat of retirement as leverage though. It could backfire.”
bdplant posted:“Don’t use the threat of retirement as leverage though. It could backfire.”
Favre had Rodgers sitting on the bench behind him (and at other times, Mark Brunell and Matt Hasselback). In other words, HOFers to top 10 QBs who would have probably been more effective than Favre several of the years where Favre played rocketball and threw 20+ interceptions. Hundley, Kizer, Tolzien, Wallace, Brohm, O'Sullivan, etc. (with the exception of a weak armed Matt Flynn - basically Doug Pederson's equivalent for Favre) have never provided the Packers much leverage.
At some point the Packers will have to replace Rodgers. I suspect the when will be more in Rodgers control than Gutes.
Nice article here that really explains a lot of the recent friction between HC and QB1.
Brainwashed Boris posted:
I think this is a good thing - and I realize I might be the only one. Starr was a friend to Favre and then Rodgers. Starr isn't what he use to be physically. I hope this QB mentoring thing becomes a way of Packer life. Favre & Rodgers mentoring other good GB QBs would be great for the organization - not to mention the individuals involved.
But, if I did want to joint "the end is near" group. I would advise Rodgers that he needs to throw more interceptions and fumble more if he wants to stand a chance to break those NFL records Mr. Favre owns.
As for Rodgers replacement is concerned, I thought when Starr retired that I would be fortunate to see another NFL HOF QB in GB in my life time. Now I have seen 2 others in Favre & Rodgers. Maybe there are more coming. I am not worried.
I found this https://packerstalk.com/2018/1...28PackersTalk.com%29
I am not sure where I fit, even with this chart.
Pikes Peak posted:It's the end of the world as we know it
and I feel fine.
PackerPatrick posted:I found this https://packerstalk.com/2018/1...28PackersTalk.com%29
I am not sure where I fit, even with this chart.
That is fantastic.
Saleh was so tuned into what McCarthy was calling that he had his backside defensive end stop chasing down runs to stymie all the bootleg fakes Rodgers was trying to run. It wasn’t until the game-winning drive that the Packers finally outwitted Saleh by giving the ball to running back Ty Montgomery instead of having Rodgers keep the ball on a play-fake.
Montgomery gained 14 yards on the first play of the drive to get things moving in the right direction.
“David Bakhtiari actually suggested the first play, so I’ve got to give him credit or else he’ll tell me about it tomorrow,” Rodgers said. “He suggested that play and then Ty obviously ran the ball well and got out of bounds.”
Bakhtiari is a cancer. Making poor McVince's life hard by suggesting effective plays to the other cancer, Aaron Rodgers.
For all the chatter that Rodgers needs to play better. Second in the NFL in yards. Among NFL lead in TDs. Triple digit QB rating. Only 1 INT that was tipped twice. Packer fans just have a different smell test for what Rodgers should look like.
This is wildly marginal team at best that continually makes the same mental mistakes week after week. catastrophically bad special teams with pure vanilla schemes on defense because the corners can’t stay healthy and there’s no way to hide the play at safety. Which is all mitigated by the greatest QB ever.
ChilliJon posted:For all the chatter that Rodgers needs to play better. Second in the NFL in yards. Among NFL lead in TDs. Triple digit QB rating. Only 1 INT that was tipped twice. Packer fans just have a different smell test for what Rodgers should look like.
This is wildly marginal team at best that continually makes the same mental mistakes week after week. catastrophically bad special teams with pure vanilla schemes on defense because the corners can’t stay healthy and there’s no way to hide the play at safety. Which is all mitigated by the greatest QB ever.
I agree. You would think after seeing what the team looks like without Rodgers a few times in the last 5 years (Hundley, S. Wallace, Tolzein, the older version of Flynn) that there'd be a higher level of appreciation for what Rodgers is doing when he's clearly not 100%.
I'm not overly optimistic - I think this is an 8 or 9 win team at best. However, the offense should get better. Rodgers has played the last couple of games with one WR/TE that he has ever played meaningful snaps with before this season. The chemistry with Graham and the three rookie receivers is only going to get better.
MM is not a superstar NFL coach. However, he's a decent, above average guy. There is so much tape on his offense after 216 games that every DC has thousands of pages of information on his tendencies, etc.
The real problem is the talent. As we've discussed ad nauseum, TT's ability to identify talent clearly slipped the last 5-6 years. He hit on a few guys in his last 6 drafts (Bakh, Kenny Clark, Davante Adams), but he whiffed on so many guys - especially on the defensive side- that it's hard to stay competitive. This affects the special teams too - the problems they have are more the talent depth they have than schemes.
There are some promising guys on defense, but they're probably a year or two (and a few more decent defensive guys) away from being a real contender. Gute signed some guys to at least make the team respectable this year. Jimmy Graham (or a guy like him) was almost a must sign. Tramon is a decent stop gap at CB.
Tramon, bless him and all, reminds me constantly why I was ok with him leaving the first time - he's lost a step. Vet savvy can overcome that in the first 10-15 yards but after that he's a liability.
ChilliJon posted:For all the chatter that Rodgers needs to play better. Second in the NFL in yards. Among NFL lead in TDs. Triple digit QB rating. Only 1 INT that was tipped twice. Packer fans just have a different smell test for what Rodgers should look like.
This is wildly marginal team at best that continually makes the same mental mistakes week after week. catastrophically bad special teams with pure vanilla schemes on defense because the corners can’t stay healthy and there’s no way to hide the play at safety. Which is all mitigated by the greatest QB ever.
While I agree there is a lot of mediocrity on this team that Rodgers is covering up, the yards and QBR don't tell the whole story. His first two games were fantastic, but the last 4 his completion % has dipped to 58%. Receivers have had problems with drops for sure, especially against Washington, but Rodgers has just been off at times. He does need to play better, he's the highest paid player in NFL history, he shouldn't be missing routine passes or taking stupid sacks.
I don't know how well TW is playing vs. last year when he supposedly was in complete revival mode. But he played with very good secondary in ARZ last year which I'm sure made his job easier. Frank Gore however, at 35! looks spry as hell. I don't understand how a running back at that age with that many rough miles doesn't look like he's 50 by now.
Grave Digger posted:He does need to play better, he's the highest paid player in NFL history, he shouldn't be missing routine passes or taking stupid sacks.
Or taking TO's because the play clock ran out. He's been the Jedi play clock manager for years.
I can't understand why he consistently takes the play clock down to the last second. I know he likes to use the hard count to draw an offsides call and possible free play, but he is also giving the defense a great start on the snap since they know it comes at the last second on seemingly every play. Would it hurt to mix it up once in a while to catch them off guard?
The play clock thing has been addressed in the past and is a product of McCho not getting the play call in quick enough.
Can you really blame him? Readin' dat big chart and all...
When was the last time the hard count/ free play deal worked?
It has looked so far like his efforts at working that scheme have backfired more often than it has been successful.
RochNyFan posted:I can't understand why he consistently takes the play clock down to the last second. I know he likes to use the hard count to draw an offsides call and possible free play, but he is also giving the defense a great start on the snap since they know it comes at the last second on seemingly every play. Would it hurt to mix it up once in a while to catch them off guard?
He's trying to get the defense to show what the pass rush scheme is going to be. They know when the ball will be snapped, but the blitz protection schemes also know who will be coming as well.
Grave Digger posted:ChilliJon posted:For all the chatter that Rodgers needs to play better. Second in the NFL in yards. Among NFL lead in TDs. Triple digit QB rating. Only 1 INT that was tipped twice. Packer fans just have a different smell test for what Rodgers should look like.
This is wildly marginal team at best that continually makes the same mental mistakes week after week. catastrophically bad special teams with pure vanilla schemes on defense because the corners can’t stay healthy and there’s no way to hide the play at safety. Which is all mitigated by the greatest QB ever.
While I agree there is a lot of mediocrity on this team that Rodgers is covering up, the yards and QBR don't tell the whole story. His first two games were fantastic, but the last 4 his completion % has dipped to 58%. Receivers have had problems with drops for sure, especially against Washington, but Rodgers has just been off at times. He does need to play better, he's the highest paid player in NFL history, he shouldn't be missing routine passes or taking stupid sacks.
I realize that injuries are part of the game and it’s not his fault, but how can you field a competitive team when you’re tying up so much money on one guy, and that guy is either unavailable or not 100% for the second straight season?
Pikes Peak posted:When was the last time the hard count/ free play deal worked?
Worked once last night. On Bulaga.
MichiganPacker posted:RochNyFan posted:I can't understand why he consistently takes the play clock down to the last second. I know he likes to use the hard count to draw an offsides call and possible free play, but he is also giving the defense a great start on the snap since they know it comes at the last second on seemingly every play. Would it hurt to mix it up once in a while to catch them off guard?
He's trying to get the defense to show what the pass rush scheme is going to be. They know when the ball will be snapped, but the blitz protection schemes also know who will be coming as well.
I understand he is trying to get the defense to show their hand, and I assume every other experienced QB, like Brady, Brees, Rivers, etc, is doing the same, just not taking the clock down to zero and wasting time outs every game.
bdplant posted:I realize that injuries are part of the game and it’s not his fault, but how can you field a competitive team when you’re tying up so much money on one guy, and that guy is either unavailable or not 100% for the second straight season?
Because
The money isn't the issue to me, the cap will continue to go up. The issue is 1) if he's 100% he needs to play smarter and make the throws he's capable of making and 2) if he's not 100% and can't make those throws then he needs to play within the system like he did against Chicago and Minnesota and take the opportunities he gets and let the skill players do their work.
PackerHawk posted:Pikes Peak posted:When was the last time the hard count/ free play deal worked?
Worked once last night. On Bulaga.
The fact that every DC in the league warns their players about the hard count before every game probably makes it work less.
There is still a benefit in that opposing pass rushers probably hesitate a little more off the snap than they do against other QBs. It makes the Packers OL's job just a little easier.
The issue isn't that he's using it. The issue is that he's getting caught too often without enough time to get the snap off and having to call an unnecessary TO.
Yup, DH. Agree. He is waiting so long the DL tees off or he burns the TO. Not having a TO on the last drive turned out okay, but I would have liked to have one so it wasn't hold-your-breath-he-goes-out-of-bounds on every play.
Of course, maybe the fact that it sounds like Rodgers just called every play on the drive works in our favor to keep MM out of it.
Also can't challenge if you don't have a TO.
Good point. Last two minutes it doesn't matter, but a game could turn on a good challenge... oops. Oxymoron when it comes to MM's challenges.
Grave Digger posted:bdplant posted:I realize that injuries are part of the game and it’s not his fault, but how can you field a competitive team when you’re tying up so much money on one guy, and that guy is either unavailable or not 100% for the second straight season?
Because
The money isn't the issue to me, the cap will continue to go up. The issue is 1) if he's 100% he needs to play smarter and make the throws he's capable of making and 2) if he's not 100% and can't make those throws then he needs to play within the system like he did against Chicago and Minnesota and take the opportunities he gets and let the skill players do their work.
Geezus **** man he’s not 100% and he’s making throws to win games within a fractured plan with his #2 and # 3 receivers on the shelf for weeks to rookies trying to learn on the fly. Rookies trying to see coverage like Rodgers does
Stop trying to sell Rodgers needs to be better. He’s better than anything you’ve ever watched at QB.