Aaron Rodgers

50k Club posted:

I've noticed that Zach Kruse is doing a lot of critiquing about Rodgers' reads on his twitter feed, and it is cringeworthy.  He has NO idea what the play read progression is.  AR could have done that to verify the coverage the 49ers were in, he could have done that to clear a defender out of the area where the play is designed to go to, etc. 

Yep.  

I'm trying to see the matchups on that play being analyzed but it looks like Rodgers is looking at whoever GD says is running the sluggo after Rodgers does take the first read on Monty who at that point is currently covered by the LB and not looking at Rodgers. 

Maybe Rodgers should've waited for the play to develop more . . .  

True, but I think rebuilding the core of this team around defense would be smart.  I also think they should use a draft pick on a high round QB in 2 years

Zach Kruse looking at the all-22 & playing armchair QB. Yeah.....Sometimes you have more than 1 guy open & sometimes you save particular looks for things like playoff games - although I admit the Niners probably aren't making the playoffs this year - or division games facing an opponent a 2nd time.

I don't think that's a missed play. I know we think of Rodgers as head and shoulders above everyone else but truth is he's 2-5 inches shorter than the people in front of him. I don't see a passing lane for a dart to an open Monty. And if he floats it over the top then the safety has time to converge. Those are the reads that keep his turnovers down.

MichiganPacker2 posted:

Fandame posted:

YATittle posted:

Goalline posted:

Grave Digger posted:

This is what I'm talking about. What is the logic behind this? Monty probably rips off 30+, possibly a TD as both Safeties are shading outside. It's not to say he's not the best player in the league, the best QB ever, or even having a good season, but this is a great example of missed opportunities that we've seen too many of this season. 

Don't get this one at all. Rodgers moves Montgomery to the slot, hand signals the new route, but then doesn't even look his way. He's open! Immediately. 88 in the slot against a LB. Shouldn't that always be the first read? (This play ended in a sack.) pic.twitter.com/jbmGXAJQFY

— Zach Kruse (@zachkruse2) October 17, 2018

 

Yeah, bad fundamentals. Most QBs see that match up, there’s no hesitation.

The funny thing is he motions for the play then never goes to it.

Know what's probably "funnier"? I bet Monty wasn't very happy after Rodgers tells him where to go, Monty comes totally free, he doesn't get the ball, and Rodgers is sacked. I'd want to come back to the huddle and go "WTF?!?"

You'd have to know what the route designs are supposed to be, but obviously Monty breaks free on his guy. The potential problem is the other slot route is running right toward him. If Rodgers leads Monty the defender of the other route is potentially in position to break up the pass. Either Monty needs to run his route more to the outside or the play design is flawed to have the two slot receivers basically converge 15 yards downfield. 

Nothing to add here. Just want to see how small the picture will get. 

edit: Damn, I broke it. 

Henry posted:

And yes, I like checkdowns too.  Rodgers and McVince need to pull their collective heads out.  Unfortunately, no one got the memo yet.

All the joking about shipping Rodgers out, I seriously wouldn't be against it.  I have zero faith this team will put together a real Super Bowl contender on both sides of the ball with McVince and Murphy running the show.  If this is the way things are going to be I'd rather use that capital to build a stellar defense and balanced offense.  Rodgers will go on to win Superbowls somewhere else and the Packers can move forward without the dead weight.  Unfortunately, Murphy is a different kettle of fish.

Mrs. Lincoln thought the play could've used less bullets.  

This may sound like blasphemy, but I have been thinking the same thing of late.  This team has too many holes for Rodgers to continue to carry them.  He's 34, been injury prone, and is taking far too many shots lately.  This team needs help on the OL, TE's, S, and LB's.  And, aside from Kenny Clark, I'm not sure I would say the D-Line is particularly solid.....Daniels has not played to his previous levels, and Lowry tries hard but will never be a force.  It is far from the team that competed in 2014 and as recently as 2016.  I believe that the status quo will lead GB to a series of 9-7 or 8-8 seasons and it may be time to consider the draft haul they could rake in if they (gasp) traded #12.  On the other hand, maybe if they off load the contracts of Matthews, Cobb, C-Dix, and some other dead weight, they could be a little more active in FA and patch some of the bigger holes...who knows.  Suffice it to say, a trade will almost certainly never happen.  

grignon posted:

I don't think that's a missed play. I know we think of Rodgers as head and shoulders above everyone else but truth is he's 2-5 inches shorter than the people in front of him. I don't see a passing lane for a dart to an open Monty. And if he floats it over the top then the safety has time to converge. Those are the reads that keep his turnovers down.

I think that's getting a little carried away with excuse making, this is bordering on me with Dom Capers level excuse making. He knows where the route is going, if he couldn't see the route then he needed to move around the pocket. He was locked into 1 player and not going through his progressions. 

This OL isn’t built to sustain 12 plus play drives predicated on checkdowns and chain moving completions. Aaron knows it. So does Mike. Otherwise the run total would be different after 6 weeks. This offense is reliant on explosive plays. 

Phillips is not going to blitz Rodgers in LA. He’s going to rush 4 and cover. Mike needs to flip the script and run the ball again, and again, and again. Can’t beat LA handing it off 18 times and slinging it 45 times. 

grignon posted:

I don't think that's a missed play. I know we think of Rodgers as head and shoulders above everyone else but truth is he's 2-5 inches shorter than the people in front of him. I don't see a passing lane for a dart to an open Monty. And if he floats it over the top then the safety has time to converge. Those are the reads that keep his turnovers down.

If height is the criteria at QB than it makes Brees' career all the more remarkable.

First Rodgers is too short to miss the route, now they’re just being mindful of the OL’s conditioning? They can hold up for a 12 play drive made entirely of checkdowns and runs just fine, in fact I think MM, AR, and the OL would PREFER a long, extended successful drive as that means the defense gets a break. Has it struck anyone that maybe Mike and Aaron don’t want to run the ball because why the fukk would you run when Aaron Rodgers is throwing the ball? Balance on offense is for teams that don’t have Aaron Rodgers. Aaron can set up anything the run can, the only motivation to run the ball is that Williams and Jones are good RBs that need to touch the ball.

RochNyFan posted:

Henry posted:

And yes, I like checkdowns too.  Rodgers and McVince need to pull their collective heads out.  Unfortunately, no one got the memo yet.

All the joking about shipping Rodgers out, I seriously wouldn't be against it.  I have zero faith this team will put together a real Super Bowl contender on both sides of the ball with McVince and Murphy running the show.  If this is the way things are going to be I'd rather use that capital to build a stellar defense and balanced offense.  Rodgers will go on to win Superbowls somewhere else and the Packers can move forward without the dead weight.  Unfortunately, Murphy is a different kettle of fish.

Mrs. Lincoln thought the play could've used less bullets.  

This may sound like blasphemy, but I have been thinking the same thing of late.  This team has too many holes for Rodgers to continue to carry them.  He's 34, been injury prone, and is taking far too many shots lately.  This team needs help on the OL, TE's, S, and LB's.  And, aside from Kenny Clark, I'm not sure I would say the D-Line is particularly solid.....Daniels has not played to his previous levels, and Lowry tries hard but will never be a force.  It is far from the team that competed in 2014 and as recently as 2016.  I believe that the status quo will lead GB to a series of 9-7 or 8-8 seasons and it may be time to consider the draft haul they could rake in if they (gasp) traded #12.  On the other hand, maybe if they off load the contracts of Matthews, Cobb, C-Dix, and some other dead weight, they could be a little more active in FA and patch some of the bigger holes...who knows.  Suffice it to say, a trade will almost certainly never happen.  

That is why I was wanting a QB in round one in a draft that was loaded with QB talent. Not in a few years, this was the time. Then again, to go from one HOF QB to another is remarkable, so the next guy(s) up, well, can they do a threepeat? We saw /see that TT and MM are no QB-talkers, it is all Rodgers and the luck that he fell into TT's lap.

With Rodgers playing a full season in any given year they will win at least 6-7 games, thus never getting into the position to draft a true play maker on defense.

I don’t think the Packers could have taken a QB in the first round this year without seriously pi$$ing off AR....not because he’d be afraid of being replaced, but because he wants another title, and using your first pick on a QB is an investment for three or four years down the road. 

Grave Digger posted:

First Rodgers is too short to miss the route, now they’re just being mindful of the OL’s conditioning? They can hold up for a 12 play drive made entirely of checkdowns and runs just fine, in fact I think MM, AR, and the OL would PREFER a long, extended successful drive as that means the defense gets a break. Has it struck anyone that maybe Mike and Aaron don’t want to run the ball because why the fukk would you run when Aaron Rodgers is throwing the ball? Balance on offense is for teams that don’t have Aaron Rodgers. Aaron can set up anything the run can, the only motivation to run the ball is that Williams and Jones are good RBs that need to touch the ball.

Where did conditioning come from? You are all over the map. And GB best run the ball the next 4 weeks for the exact reasons you’ve explained. 

bdplant posted:

I don’t think the Packers could have taken a QB in the first round this year without seriously pi$$ing off AR....not because he’d be afraid of being replaced, but because he wants another title, and using your first pick on a QB is an investment for three or four years down the road. 

Player over organization then.

You said the OL isn’t built to sustain a twelve play drive. 

They’re not. Nothing to do with conditioning. 

ChilliJon posted:

This OL isn’t built to sustain 12 plus play drives predicated on checkdowns and chain moving completions. Aaron knows it. So does Mike. Otherwise the run total would be different after 6 weeks. This offense is reliant on explosive plays. 

Phillips is not going to blitz Rodgers in LA. He’s going to rush 4 and cover. Mike needs to flip the script and run the ball again, and again, and again. Can’t beat LA handing it off 18 times and slinging it 45 times. 

They look for explosive plays because their analytics tell them that the two stats which correlate highest with winning an individual game in the NFL are: 1) Turnover differential 2) Average yards gained per pass attempt. Win those two categories in any game and you have over a 90% chance of winning the game. 

excalibur posted:

bdplant posted:

I don’t think the Packers could have taken a QB in the first round this year without seriously pi$$ing off AR....not because he’d be afraid of being replaced, but because he wants another title, and using your first pick on a QB is an investment for three or four years down the road. 

Player over organization then.

True, but do you want the league’s best QB, still in his prime, or do you want him to leave for a team that wants to win now?

Grave Digger posted:

Balance on offense is for teams that don’t have Aaron Rodgers. Aaron can set up anything the run can, the only motivation to run the ball is that Williams and Jones are good RBs that need to touch the ball.

More screens please.

excalibur posted:

 We saw /see that TT and MM are no QB-talkers, it is all Rodgers and the luck that he fell into TT's lap.

 

You mean TT had the sense to take an excellent QB because every other team passed on Rodgers with the excuse he was arrogant while having a HOF QB already on the roster?  

Yeah, fell into his lap.

excalibur posted:

bdplant posted:

I don’t think the Packers could have taken a QB in the first round this year without seriously pi$$ing off AR....not because he’d be afraid of being replaced, but because he wants another title, and using your first pick on a QB is an investment for three or four years down the road. 

Player over organization then.

Do you think that's a Rodgers specific issue, especially with an upcoming contract and an organizational shit show?

ChilliJon posted:

They’re not. Nothing to do with conditioning. 

Then what does that mean? What do players "built for a 12 play drive" look like?

Grave Digger posted:

First Rodgers is too short to miss the route, now they’re just being mindful of the OL’s conditioning? They can hold up for a 12 play drive made entirely of checkdowns and runs just fine, in fact I think MM, AR, and the OL would PREFER a long, extended successful drive as that means the defense gets a break. Has it struck anyone that maybe Mike and Aaron don’t want to run the ball because why the fukk would you run when Aaron Rodgers is throwing the ball? Balance on offense is for teams that don’t have Aaron Rodgers. Aaron can set up anything the run can, the only motivation to run the ball is that Williams and Jones are good RBs that need to touch the ball.

There is this new concept that some teams are using that is designed to draw linebackers closer to the LOS so you can easily pass over the top of them.  It's being referred to as "play action pass."   

In theory, if you have run the ball previously, the LB's have a tendency to cheat toward moving forward to defend the run rather than moving back to defend the pass.   So if you, wait for it, fake a handoff, the LB's first step may be toward the LOS, giving your pass catchers a better opportunity to get behind them.  Of course it's all predicated on actually running the ball once in a while.  Without running the ball first, it's like running the fake spike clock it play with 10 minutes left in the 1st quarter. 

It's crazy pseudoscience, but teams have been trying it.   Even teams with good QB's. 

Sounds crazy to me. Why would you indicate a hand off and then not actually do it?

First of all, you don't need to run to draw the LBs or Safeties up. You just don't. What do you think is the point of those bubble screens, slant routes, sit downs by the Slot and TE flats? Just for funsies? They just like gaining 2 yards on a pass that conservatively travels 20 yards in the air? All that motion we use, moving receivers and TEs into the backfield and then motioning them out, all that's just for show? All of those things accomplish the same thing that dives, counters, traps, and sweeps do. 

Secondly, even if GB runs the ball effectively, teams will never honor the run game to the point where Rodgers could exploit it, because he's ****ing Aaron Rodgers and why would you focus on anything else but him passing the ball. Teams will ALWAYS dare GB to beat them with the running game, which with the defenses we have/have had, is simply not an option. 

Grave Digger posted:

 Secondly, even if GB runs the ball effectively, teams will never honor the run game to the point where Rodgers could exploit it, because he's ****ing Aaron Rodgers and why would you focus on anything else but him passing the ball. 

They did when we had a healthy and productive Lacy, i.e. 2014.  But I don't see him fitting through the door any time soon.

I disagree, I think that's half the reason Lacy had so much success was that teams were always cheating to stop the pass. I'm not saying every play teams are back in prevent defense, but in general defenses are always going to lean toward coverage rather than cheat to stop the run. 

I thought Lacy was an excellent complement to Rodgers in 2013-2014.  He even did a pretty good job in 2013 when Rodgers was out.  He kind of became the focal point of the offense that year while Rodgers' collarbone healed.   I just wish we could have gotten a couple more high level seasons from him, because I really did think those 2 years he was the best back GB has had since Ahman Green.  But it was only 2 years, the rest of the time, he just wasn't the same guy.

The offense's deep ball success in the later half of 2014 disagrees.  Lacy was pulling the second high safety down.

Rodgers already has 6 passes over 50 yards after 6 weeks. He’s had another for 43 yards. His all time high for a season is 9 in 2011 and 2014. 

GB offense is not easy to game plan for at this point. Should be able to run the ball and execute screens over the next month. 

Cant underestimate the value MVS’ speed has had thus far. He hasn’t been exclusively featured as a deep threat. Just enough to show up on film. 

You expect McCarthy to try to establish the run?  

I’d like to think he’s set the table to do exactly that. 

I'll believe it when I see it

I haven't seen it yet 

Billy Joe Shaver

Great read.

https://www.packersnews.com/st...-rodgers/1696072002/