Man O Man....I fell asleep just before halftime & woke up in middle of 4th quarter. Did I miss anything?? I saw Giannis "nudge" Wood  

I know the Pistons suck but the Bucks are as good as advertised.....even with the MVP on the bench. Middleton was on fire early

Last edited by Boris

30 years ago they called the Pistons "The Bad Boys" because of how tough they were on the way to winning 2 titles in a row in '89 and '90.

They could call this current group by the same name but only because man they are BAD!!!  Christian Wood is the only ex-Buck I wouldn't mind still being on the Bucks, it was unfortunate they had to part ways with him to get enough healthy guards on the roster last year.  Sad what's happened to all those ex-Bucks as they are good guys, but none are worthy of big minutes on a championship level team at this point.

fightphoe93 posted:

30 years ago they called the Pistons "The Bad Boys" because of how tough they were on the way to winning 2 titles in a row in '89 and '90.

They could call this current group by the same name but only because man they are BAD!!!  Christian Wood is the only ex-Buck I wouldn't mind still being on the Bucks, it was unfortunate they had to part ways with him to get enough healthy guards on the roster last year.  Sad what's happened to all those ex-Bucks as they are good guys, but none are worthy of big minutes on a championship level team at this point.

Career earnings:

John Henson, 8 years, 51 million. 

Tony Snell, 8 years, 51 million (including next year)

Thon Maker, 4 years, 11.6 million

Brandon Knight, 9 years, 81 million

Christian Wood hasn't gotten paid yet, but has still made 4 million over 4 years. Playing big minutes for an awful team will likely lead him to getting at least a MLE-type contract from someone. 

You're right. They all seem like decent guys. It's just circumstances that lead to all of them ending up elsewhere. Wood was gone because they picked up Mirotic and they liked DJ Wilson better when they had to choose. 

But there is very little difference between Henson/Snell/Maker/C. Wood and S. Brown/Wilson/Thanasis/Connaughton. It's just that Henson and Snell got paid. 

 

Tagging onto the previous post (I'm having a particular awful week at work and need a break), here's the 10 guys that played opening night of the 2017-18 season.  Parker started the season in IR so I'm counting him as the 11th guy. This isn't that long ago.  

https://www.basketball-referen...es/201710180BOS.html

Starters: Giannis, Middleton, Brogdon, Snell, Maker

Bench guys who played: Dellavadova, Henson, Monroe, Teletovic, Vaughn

Parker on IR

Over the past two years, they've traded or released 9 of those 11. They turned over the entire roster around Giannis and Middleton in two years without signing a single big-money free agent. The only one of those 9 guys that you'd still want on the roster  over anyone they have is Brogdon. 

What have they given up to do it (besides cap space)? 

Teletovic, Vaughn, and Parker were  not resigned. 

Brogdon was traded for a 1st round pick and two 2nd round picks. 

Dellavadova, Henson, and a 1st round pick were traded for George Hill and Jason Smith and a second round pick. Jason Smith, Thon Maker, and 4 second round picks were then moved for Mirotic.

They traded Monroe, a first round pick, and a second round pick for Bledsoe. 

They traded Snell for Leuer (and then waived Leuer). 

B. Lopez, R. Lopez, Korver, M. Williams, W. Matthews, Ilyasova, and Connaughton were all street free agents signed for not much over the minimum originally (B. Lopez got more money a year in). They drafted DiVincenzo. 

To turn those 9 guys from the opening roster two seasons ago and the salary cap mess associated with that into what for the following net cost is unbelievable. 

Malcolm Brogdon, one first round pick, and 2 second round picks. The remaining first round pick is next year's. If Giannis stays that's not going be better than the late 20s. 

 

Shedding the Delladova and Snell and Henson contracts alone were practically miracles.  

They were going to lose Brogdon anyway and turned it into picks in their favor.  I also think they intentionally (or unintentionally) drove up the price for Indy to sign him. 

Sure, they swung and missed on Teletovic but at the time it was lauded as a brilliant move. 

Horst has done a magnificent job as GM and perhaps the only guy that’s done better over the same period is Masai Ujiri in Toronto. 

The key to the title hopes rest on two players- Middleton and Bledsoe. If they get going forward what they got last night, they can run this roster back for the length of Bledsoe’s contract and expect greatness.

Next year, two teams are going to be back in the ring- Golden State and Brooklyn. The Bucks must get their title pedigree this year. It’s theirs to take. 

I know there's talk about the Bucks winning 70 games but I would give it less than 10% chance that could happen.  The toughest part of their schedule is coming up and I think expecting 4 losses or less is probably a tall order.  Heck, just the one 5 game stretch with games at Miami, at Lakers, at Denver, at Phoenix with a home game vs. Indy mixed in, I could see a couple losses just in that stretch alone.  Plus they have 3 more games with Toronto, 2 vs. Philly, 1 road game at Dallas, and 2 more games vs. Boston.  

If they do somehow get 70 wins they'll have earned it, that's a lot of tough games coming up.

fightphoe93 posted:

I know there's talk about the Bucks winning 70 games but I would give it less than 10% chance that could happen.  The toughest part of their schedule is coming up and I think expecting 4 losses or less is probably a tall order.  Heck, just the one 5 game stretch with games at Miami, at Lakers, at Denver, at Phoenix with a home game vs. Indy mixed in, I could see a couple losses just in that stretch alone.  Plus they have 3 more games with Toronto, 2 vs. Philly, 1 road game at Dallas, and 2 more games vs. Boston.  

If they do somehow get 70 wins they'll have earned it, that's a lot of tough games coming up.

If you knew you were going to win a title for sure, then 70 is more important. Otherwise, no one is really going to care if the Bucks win 70 or play guys from their G league team and lose their next 25 games in a row to go into the playoffs as a 6 seed. 

Music City posted:

The key to the title hopes rest on two players- Middleton and Bledsoe. If they get going forward what they got last night, they can run this roster back for the length of Bledsoe’s contract and expect greatness.

Next year, two teams are going to be back in the ring- Golden State and Brooklyn. The Bucks must get their title pedigree this year. It’s theirs to take. 

Agreed with one additional key - Giannis' FT shooting. 

In the 3 close losses in the ECF last year (Games 3, 5, and 6), Giannis was 11 for 26 from the line. 

He was 2 for 7 in Game 3 during regulation and that went OT. 

I believe Games 5 and 6 were one possessions games within the last 2 minutes of the 4th quarter. 

If he hits 75% of his FTs in 2 of those games, the Bucks are likely defending champs right now. 

 

MichiganPacker2 posted:

To turn those 9 guys from the opening roster two seasons ago and the salary cap mess associated with that into what for the following net cost is unbelievable. 

Malcolm Brogdon, one first round pick, and 2 second round picks. The remaining first round pick is next year's. If Giannis stays that's not going be better than the late 20s.  

Can you believe that Leuer, Hawes, and Larry friggin Sanders will cost the Bucks $7M in cap space next year (which will be the last for Leuer and Hawes while Sanders will still have 2 more year at $1.8M)? That’s Ilyasova (who will also be off the books after 2021)- the Bucks will have $13-14M in cap space to fill a role player slot or extend Divincenzo if they’re so inclined by then. 

The cap is not growing- it’s expected to reduce a bit next year. The Bucks will go into the tax re-signing Giannis if they cannot rid themselves of the dead money. The CBA runs through 23-24, which if Giannis extends this summer will get the Bucks through 2 years of that contract. I am sure Saratsis is factoring while they mull the extension offer from the Bucks this summer. That little bit of uncertainty could be a monkey wrench... 

Last edited by Music City
Music City posted:
MichiganPacker2 posted:

To turn those 9 guys from the opening roster two seasons ago and the salary cap mess associated with that into what for the following net cost is unbelievable. 

Malcolm Brogdon, one first round pick, and 2 second round picks. The remaining first round pick is next year's. If Giannis stays that's not going be better than the late 20s.  

Can you believe that Leuer, Hawes, and Larry friggin Sanders will cost the Bucks $7M in cap space next year (which will be the last for Leuer and Hawes while Sanders will still have 2 more year at $1.8M)? That’s Ilyasova (who will also be off the books after 2021)- the Bucks will have $13-14M in cap space to fill a role player slot or extend Divincenzo if they’re so inclined by then. 

The cap is not growing- it’s expected to reduce a bit next year. The Bucks will go into the tax re-signing Giannis if they cannot rid themselves of the dead money. The CBA runs through 23-24, which if Giannis extends this summer will get the Bucks through 2 years of that contract. I am sure Saratsis is factoring while they mull the extension offer from the Bucks this summer. That little bit of uncertainty could be a monkey wrench... 

Why would that be any more of a monkey wrench for the Bucks than anyone else?

As I've said before, if Giannis leaves Milwaukee because he believes he can't win a title with what he has around him, he's in some ways worse than Durant, James, Kawhi, etc. 

There wasn't a wall of Raptors in front of him when he started airballing FTs in the ECFs. If he shoots 5 of 7 from the FT in Game 3 (instead of 2 for 7) that's the difference (the game went to OT). In the 7 previous games in the playoffs that were "pressure" games (I don't count the Pistons series), he went 45 for 65 and shot 71%. All of sudden he goes on the road to Toronto and Drake bothers him and he becomes Shaq at the line? 

Middleton has been surprisingly good this year and he's a 45% career 3 point shooter in the playoffs. At worst, he's the guy that other team can't let beat them from 3. Bledsoe may struggle, but they have Donte D. to give them some minutes there they didn't last year. The key for the playoffs may end up being when Giannis has to shoot 18-20 FTs a game when the defenses go "Jordan Rules" on him in the playoffs. He can't be putting up 11-20 or 10-23 type performances at the line. 

There is going to be a time when he has to close out a game at the line. That's what may be the difference between a Finals trip and a loss to the Raptors/Celtics/Heat/Sixers. 

Music City posted:
MichiganPacker2 posted:

To turn those 9 guys from the opening roster two seasons ago and the salary cap mess associated with that into what for the following net cost is unbelievable. 

Malcolm Brogdon, one first round pick, and 2 second round picks. The remaining first round pick is next year's. If Giannis stays that's not going be better than the late 20s.  

Can you believe that Leuer, Hawes, and Larry friggin Sanders will cost the Bucks $7M in cap space next year (which will be the last for Leuer and Hawes while Sanders will still have 2 more year at $1.8M)? That’s Ilyasova (who will also be off the books after 2021)- the Bucks will have $13-14M in cap space to fill a role player slot or extend Divincenzo if they’re so inclined by then. 

The cap is not growing- it’s expected to reduce a bit next year. The Bucks will go into the tax re-signing Giannis if they cannot rid themselves of the dead money. The CBA runs through 23-24, which if Giannis extends this summer will get the Bucks through 2 years of that contract. I am sure Saratsis is factoring while they mull the extension offer from the Bucks this summer. That little bit of uncertainty could be a monkey wrench... 

It looks like Ersan can come off the books this summer. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/mi...ersan-ilyasova-6341/

Contract Notes:

  • 2020 non-guaranteed, fully if not waived on or before two days following 2020 NBA Draft, 06/27/2020 (@EricPincus)

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