Giannis needs to work a little less on his 3 pt shooting, and a little more on his free throw shooting. 

“3 pt shooting will extend his career.”

You know what else will extend his career? Hitting free throws. They count just the same, and nobody is contesting those shots. He’s 8 for 17 tonight from the line. That’s inexcusable. We’re going to see a lot more hack-a-Giannis if this continues. And all those hard fouls will counteract any benefit to extending his career that taking threes gives. 

lambeausouth posted:

Giannis needs to work a little less on his 3 pt shooting, and a little more on his free throw shooting. 

“3 pt shooting will extend his career.”

You know what else will extend his career? Hitting free throws. They count just the same, and nobody is contesting those shots. He’s 8 for 17 tonight from the line. That’s inexcusable. We’re going to see a lot more hack-a-Giannis if this continues. And all those hard fouls will counteract any benefit to extending his career that taking threes gives. 

This. 

He might get 25 FTs a game in the playoffs against the Celtics, Heat, or Sixers. They are going to hammer him any time he gets near the basket. He has to be in the 70-75% range to counteract that. 

I have to believe that this is a game they wanted Giannis to be the guy that gets the ball every possession. He has to learn to play to win in these kinds of games. Be a closer. He didn’t do that, but it’s part of his education. You can’t be that guy until you do it. 

Music City posted:

I have to believe that this is a game they wanted Giannis to be the guy that gets the ball every possession. He has to learn to play to win in these kinds of games. Be a closer. He didn’t do that, but it’s part of his education. You can’t be that guy until you do it. 

Middleton is a better choice right now. He's a 90 percent FT shooter and can hit that mid-range jumper. 

Giannis' +/- tonight was -7 in 34 minutes. 

The real threats to the Bucks in the East are probably the Sixers, Celtics, and Heat. The Bucks are 1-3 in 4 games against those teams this year. 

In those 4 games....

Giannis is 29 for 82 from the floor,

0 for 19 from 3

23 for 43 from the line. 

His +/- is -29 in 135 minutes. 

Maybe he's pressing too much in those games, but he turns into a "normal" player or worse against those teams so far. 

 

 

Bucks tend to come out very flat in the third. They turned it back on late in the third tonight, or rather, the second team did, but they were poor in the 4th. It’s as if the Bucks are a heavyweight fighter. Lots of early round knockouts, but if their opponent survives the early onslaught, some of those games turn into real dogfights. Tonight, they had a real drop in efficiency late. We scored 36 in the first. 40 in the second. 30 in the third. 20 in the fourth. Celtics scored 20 in the first, and 36 in the fourth. 

First: Milwaukee 36, Boston 20

Fourth: Boston 36, Milwaukee 22

After starting out 12 for 15 from 3 point range, they went ice cold, finishing 16 for 31. That’s still an outstanding overall percentage, but within the context of the game, it’s deceiving. 4 for their last 16, Add those misses (even considering that some second chance shots went in) to Giannis missing 10 from the charity stripe...ouch. The rest of the team was 16 of 17 from the line. But this offense has stretches where it just goes ice cold. I don’t remember any other great team going that cold for extended periods as frequently as this Bucks team does. Boston has outstanding defense, so I  don’t worry as much as I might. But Bud has to work to make sure they maintain an even level of effort throughout the game. Tonight they let up, and a one time 25 point lead ended up a 5 point win. Lesser teams might give up to the bully when getting punched in the mouth early. Teams like Boston know there’s plenty of time to get back in it. 

Giannis is a great, great player. If he can get his free throw shooting to 70%, and hit 35-40% of his threes, he’ll be an immortal. He’s got the ability to do it-he was a 74% free throw shooter for his career coming into this season. I’m not sure what’s going on. Those are the easiest points a player can get, and if he can be a decent free throw shooter again, it will make his inside game all the more devastating. 

The team needs to understand that 3s are nice from Giannis, but a mid range jump shot that he hits consistently will make him all the more lethal. If Giannis starts to hit the step back jumper, good night, Gracie. There will be no slowing him down. 

Good article from a Washington Post Sports reporter puts things in perspective. 

I know I'm getting spoiled. The Bucks were up by 27 (and 20 in the last 15 minutes) against a team on pace to win 55 games. The game got close in the 3rd but it never got to a one possession game in the 4th. Obviously, you'd like to close out better, but it was a wire to wire win against a contending team who had two guys go off on offense. Kemba Walker's performance is not surprising, but Marcus Smart is not likely to go 5 for 10 from 3 that often. 

Bledsoe lost his cool. Wes Matthews was awful on offense. But DD and Korver made up for it. 

Giannis has gotten to a point where he can go 32-17-7 with 2 blocks against a team whose entire defense is geared to stop him (and beat the shit out of him at every opportunity) and shoot 50% from the floor and my first thought was that he played a poor game. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com...-most-misunderstood/

“I was kind of upset after the game,” Antetokounmpo said, his focus and priorities clear. “Talking in the locker room, it was like, ‘Guys, we were up by 20, we won, but this isn’t going to go in the playoffs.’ We’ve got to play for 48 minutes. Coach Bud came in here and was steaming hot. He was angry. That’s good. He doesn’t really care about this game or the next game, he cares about how can we get better and how we can be good for 48 minutes. That’s our goal. Instead of stepping on them, we let them come back easy.”

If they played in a bigger market or if Antetokounmpo was a thirstier self-promoter, perhaps the general conversation about the Bucks would go deeper than the cautious respect they are usually paid. It’s time for their perception to change anyway. After compiling a 97-28 record under Budenholzer, the Bucks deserve to be feared and revered.

One other thing. Which lineup is better? 

2014-15 Atlanta Hawks

Al Horford, Kyle Korver, Jeff Teague, Paul Millsap, DeMarre Carroll, Dennis Schroeder, Kent Bazemore

2019-20 Bucks (w/o Giannis)

Khris Middleton, Brook Lopez, George Hill, Eric Bledsoe, Donte DiVencenzo, Matthews, Ilyasova, really old Kyle Korver

Bud got that Hawks team to 60 wins. 

I think the rest of this Bucks team is better than people give them credit for. This is not a team running guys out there like Jabari Parker,  John Henson, Dellavadova, Snell, Thon Maker, etc. Without Giannis, they are probably still a playoff team (#6-8 seed type). 

Cheezers posted:
MichiganPacker2 posted:

Wes Matthews was awful on offense.

 

He has been a major disappointment this year.  Not sure how much longer he should be starting.

His defense is really, really good though.

It will be interesting to see what they do at the trade deadline. What could you get for the 1st round pick from the Pacers and any combination (or all of them) of Sterling Brown, DJ Wilson, Matthews, and Connaughton. I guess you could move Ilyasova or DiVincenzo too, but I'd be reluctant to part with either of them for chemistry purposes (and DD for his large upside). 

Package Brown, Wilson & the 1st for someone. 

Matthews, Connaughton, DD, Ilyasova -- nope. Especially DD ceiling too high..... him & Connaughton....jump out the gym. Christ those white boys can sky. 

Don't see them making any deal unless it truly improves the team & expands the locker room chemistry.

Glad they were pissed after the game. Can't let teams back in the game. In the playoffs you'll get sniped. 

I’m glad people are upset and unsatisfied with their effort late in games.  It’s been a problem this year (3Q) albeit hasn’t prevented them from winning games.  But Giannis is right - come playoff time the intensity increases and the pace decreases so that favors a team like Boston that likes to get physical and muddy up the game. 

Still, you have to beat this team 4 out of 7 games including at least two at Fiserv Forum.  That’s going to be difficult even for a team like Boston. 

The full Stephen A. Smith quote is even worse. I've always thought Smith was annoying, but if the top personality for the league's multi-billion dollar TV partner wants this to happen it's sending a bad signal. 

The future of marketing the NBA is international. People in Paris, Athens, Africa, China, etc. don't care whether a guy plays for Oklahoma City/Milwaukee/Indiana or whether he plays in New York, Miami, or California. 

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I like SAS.  He’s a big Rodgers fan and hates the Cowboys. 

But he’s flat out wrong for his take on Giannis.  

Once Klay returns that team has plenty of talent to compete.  Maybe not for the finals but that is certainly a playoff team.  Plus they will certainly get a lottery pick this year for tanking.  

Tell you what - give us Klay and Steph and that lottery pick and MAYBE that might be a Giannis trade done. 

Why doesn’t Anthony Davis get this type of treatment?   The anti-Giannis in Milwaukee bullshit is so old.  I hope the Bucks win the title and stick it all up their asses. 

At this point, the NBA really needs to have Giannis stay in Milwaukee. After AD forcing his way out of New Orleans, Paul George forcing his way out of Indy, and Kawhi forcing his way out of what has been the best organization in the NBA during the last 25 years (Spurs), they are a long way towards essentially having 6-8 teams that have a chance and 20-22 others that are just farm clubs for the big 6-8.  The NFL controls this by restricting the superstars from being able to move. That's unfair to the Rodgers-level players, but it keeps people invested in their teams.

I mentioned at the time how joyless the Raptors finals win seemed last year. Kawhi may do more damage to the league long-term than anyone else (including AD and LeBron). Kawhi forced his way out of a situation where he had a top 5 coach in history so that he could eventually tell teams what they'd need to do to get him (including some illegal stuff they wanted his uncle to get). He also sits out 25% of the games. If that works again with the Clippers, what's to stop a team  from resting their entire teams once they qualify for the playoffs? Just play some G league guys. The Bucks could sit out Giannis, Middleton, and a few others until April and probably lose their remaining 39 games and still qualify as the 8th seed. Would that be better than playing guys in 75 games and increasing injury risk? Would you rather have everyone healthy and be an 8 seed or go all out to get the one seed at a higher injury risk?

The other issue that may underlie some of this and is even uglier for the NBA is whether Nike, etc. are signing contracts with players that incentivize them to go to bigger markets. 

Tschmack posted:

I like SAS.  He’s a big Rodgers fan and hates the Cowboys. 

But he’s flat out wrong for his take on Giannis.  

Once Klay returns that team has plenty of talent to compete.  Maybe not for the finals but that is certainly a playoff team.  Plus they will certainly get a lottery pick this year for tanking.  

Tell you what - give us Klay and Steph and that lottery pick and MAYBE that might be a Giannis trade done. 

Why doesn’t Anthony Davis get this type of treatment?   The anti-Giannis in Milwaukee bullshit is so old.  I hope the Bucks win the title and stick it all up their asses. 

Even if the Bucks flame out in the playoffs and if Giannis says he wants out this summer, I wouldn't trade him. The Bucks are not going to get equal value. We went through this with Kareem 45 years ago. I keep him and take another shot in 2020-21.

Tschmack posted:

I could be wrong but Giannis just seems to have different motives than Kahwi and George and AD.  

You’re not wrong. He is hard coded to loyalty- and he has said as much. Hes not enamored with the bright lights of NY/LA. The team is filled with guys Giannis loves playing with. And he does not come from the NBAAU “I need to be a champion” entitlement culture that permeates the league and generates the player movement subculture of today. If anything, he comes from the Reggie Miller “I want to do this here and nowhere else” mold. 

Lasry/Edens are billionaires who bought a team on the brink of collapse. I’m sure the valuation of the franchise already far exceeds the $550 million they shelled out for it. And as the city of Milwaukee continues to invest in the district around Fiserv, the economic impact will continue to grow. This is a PR dream for the politically progressive-minded NBA- the most racially divided city becomes their big, huge success story. Wisconsin after all is a political battleground state, and the owners are huge Democrat party supporters, so there are certain political ramifications to the Bucks’ success as a franchise. The NBA would be sending the wrong message if they got too greedy by forcing the Bucks hands and making a martyr out of Milwaukee in the Giannis “he’s the biggest superstar in the game” sweepstakes. 

And it is for these reasons I think none of it happens- that Giannis is a Bucks for life. If the NBA continues to allow their primary media outlets, including the four letter network, to openly push Giannis going to a big market, and then pull the strings to get him into NY, it would be another Seattle-level betrayal to the league’s also-ran markets that would permanently and irrevocably damage the NBA. If the powers that be must have a viable Knicks franchise, they know what they have to do- they need to give Dolan the Sterling treatment and force him to sell.

But they aren’t going to do that until Lebron retires... after all, that’s the collision course that’s been ahead all along, isn’t it? Lebron James, the billionaire owner of the NY Knicks, all hail the King. 

EDIT: the Bucks franchise value according to Forbes is $1.4B, more than double the initial investment. 
https://www.forbes.com/teams/m...-bucks/#485a4c9c690f

I generally like Stephen, too. But this is annoying as hell, and I let him have a piece of my mind:

@stephenasmith hey man, shut up about Giannis going to another team. That’s a real dick move on your part. He’s a Buck, and Milwaukee has the best record in the NBA. The team around him is good, and deep. What you THINK he deserves is irrelevant. This narrative “he should play in a larger market” is just flat wrong. He deserves to play where he’s happy, and all indications are he’s happy in Milwaukee. Can’t you just watch him play, and let Bucks fans, and NBA fans enjoy him where he is? What does a bigger market gain him? More exposure? More money? You talking heads drone on and on about him enough as it is. And he’s going to get more money than he can spend in a lifetime if he stays. Milwaukee is a great sports town, and Wisconsin’s a great state for sports. We support our teams year in, year out. The Brewers have had the best home attendance per capita of any team in Major League Baseball. How long have home games at Lambeau been sold out? How long is the Packer season ticket waiting list? Meanwhile, you have a large market like Los Angeles that can’t keep a damned NFL team. Large markets aren’t everything. Milwaukee, by percentage, has the 4th best attendance in the NBA. He plays in a brand new, beautiful arena. You disrespect the fans of Wisconsin with your ridiculous musings. Enough, already! We absolutely love having @Giannis_An34 in Milwaukee. We appreciate how hard he plays, and how much work he puts in to make himself a better player. We want him to win and enjoy his life. Why don’t you let the man decide what is best for himself, and his family? #NBA  #ESPN #Bucks #Giannis #FearTheDeer  @bucks @NBA @ESPNNBA

Good post LambeauSouth

There are 3 legitimate reasons for a player to want to move in my opinion. I don't count "I want to go play with 2-3 other superstars to pad my number of rings" as legitimate. 

1. Play on a team that gives me at least the chance to win a title every year.

You aren't going to win every one, but if you get to the conference Finals most of the time the odds are in your favor. I think the Bucks have that one covered. If Giannis manages to lead the Bucks to one title, that will mean more to his legacy than winning multiple titles as a carpet bagger somewhere else. 

2. Play in or near where you grew up and your extended family.

I get a guy wanting to play in his hometown or the city he went to college in. While I don't like Kawhi and Paul George moving to LA, that at least makes some sense given they grew up there. Giannis moved to Milwaukee as an 18 year old kid and basically grew up here. His brother is in high school here. His first kid will be born here. 

3. Marketing and national/international exposure

So Giannis needs to move to get more exposure? What would moving gain him? 

He's already the number 1 guy in the All-Star ballot in the East two years in a row. 

He just had the most successful sneaker launch in Nike history. 

https://sportsnaut.com/2019/09...r-launch-in-history/

Milwaukee Bucks star and reigning NBA MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo is an international sensation.

Having ascended up the ranks from a wide-eyed rookie back in 2013-14, the Greece native is now one of the most recognizable faces in the basketball world.

That’s now made it over to the massive market that is basketball’s shoe community. According to Nike CEO Mark Parker, Giannis’ Air Zoom signature line is the best-selling sneaker launch in the history of the company.

 

Would he sell more jerseys? No. 

Top 15 Most Popular NBA Jerseys:

1. LeBron James, Los Angeles Lakers 
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks 
3. Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors 
4. Jayson Tatum, Boston Celtics 
5. James Harden, Houston Rockets 
6. Luka Dončić, Dallas Mavericks 
7. Kawhi Leonard, Los Angeles Clippers 
8. Anthony Davis, Los Angeles Lakers 
9. Joel Embiid, Philadelphia 76ers 
10. Kyrie Irving, Brooklyn Nets 
11. Ben Simmons, Philadelphia 76ers
12. Kevin Durant, Brooklyn Nets
13. Russell Westbrook, Houston Rockets
14. Kemba Walker, Boston Celtics
15. Zion Williamson, New Orleans Pelicans

Finally, if Giannis stays a Buck for life he will almost literally own Milwaukee. They'll build statues outside the Fiserv Forum which might as well be "the House that Giannis built" at this point. If he wins even one title, he would probably end up retiring in 10 years and getting a piece of ownership. Outside of Jordan (I'm overlooking the Wizard years); Kobe, Magic Johnson, Bill Russell, and Larry Bird are the biggest superstars that played for one team their entire careers and they played for franchises that have had multiple superstars over the decades. Tim Duncan and David Robinson, Isiah Thomas, Curry, and Dirk Nowitzki are other examples but they lack the charisma that Giannis has (which is on a Jordan/Magic level). Giannis would be a singular superstar in Milwaukee. Why go somewhere else? 

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