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Originally Posted by BrainDed:

I think the D has turned the corner.  Its no coincidence it happened in the season that MM gets more involved and in particular when we start addressing ILB.

 

So to answer your question, yes.  This is an Elite team with a legit shot at Lombardi Trophy.


Or is that TT finally got off his butt and brought in a playmaker (Peppers) and decent rotational starter (Guion) in FA? ILB is still a relative mess, but at least they filled a couple of holes that hadn't been adequately filled via the draft and with veterans who are equipped to run the scheme. 

 

TT broke out of his comfort zone a bit maybe, but those two have been vital additions.

Last edited by Herschel
Originally Posted by Satori:

your coach lost today

Our coach won

End of story 

Jesus **** Satan.... it's okay to recognize greatness outside of the Packer organization.  TT is fantastic, as is MM.  But it's quite possible neither of them are the best at what they do.  

 

Great win by the Packers.  I don't expect them to lose another game this year.  

Originally Posted by Fond Du Arrigo:

 

I know you tend to react negatively when anyone suggests the possibility that someone outside the organization may be better than their counterpart inside the organization. I'll try to be more aware of your sensibilities in the future.

Nope, you're wrong yet again (which is consistent with your posting history here)

 

What I react negatively to... are weakly constructed arguments that are little more than a parrots pablum

( your specialty... and Pakrz too).

Weak arguments that are easily deconstructed with facts by anybody willing to invest some time and thought.

 

You stated a preference for Belichick as did our resident mensa Pakrz

Your preferred coach lost to McCarthy's Packers and he was totally outclassed and outcoached on both offense and defense. Now if you'd like to engage your gray matter and post something useful, the fine folks at X4 will be glad to listen and respond in kind

 

I made my choice and my choice won. Yours lost and you are clearly having a difficult time accepting that. I'll try to be more aware of your sensitivities in the future, but I won't give a rats ass about them.

 

Last edited by Satori
Originally Posted by Herschel:
TT broke out of his comfort zone a bit maybe, but those two have been vital additions.

 

I don't think TT was getting out of his comfort zone with those moves.  His MO has always been to acquire players that fit the right ROI ratio.  He saw the right value in Peppers and Guion and made the move.  Don't forget, those players had to want to come to GB too. 

Barrington has looked lost most of the time this year, yesterday was the first time he's looked closer to Desmond Bishop than AJ Hawk. That's why he's been on the bench and it's why CM had to be taken off the line. Really I think the only reason he played yesterday was due to Perry's injury and Clay playing on the line more. Barrington had a strong performance though, he's going to get a shot to repeat that success next week. We will be playing a team with a very physical RB (Jackson) and honestly physical RBs have been this team's Achilles Heal. We need a strong, stout ILB like Barrington to set the tone. 

 

This game was a good benchmark for this team. New England is a good team and beating them allowed GB to cross the Rubicon into elite status. It's hard to argue for a team playing a more complete brand of football right now. 

 

As for MM vs. BB, MM was the better coach yesterday. Period. I would argue MM has been the better coach this season. MM's offense is possibly the best in the NFL right now, whether Rodgers is the reason or not, MM coordinates it and calls the plays. And, as many here have claimed, him helping the defense is the reason for the turnaround so really he's taking care of business all over the place. I think MM has been the best coach in the NFL this year, followed by Bruce Arians, followed by BB. You can't use records or stats from 12 years ago to justify saying someone is the best coach in the NFL now, if that were the case Mike Sherman would still be considered one of the upper echelon coaches in the NFL. It's a year by year thing in the NFL, Mike McCarthy has coached his team better this year than BB has coached his team. That's not to say when you're ranking NFL coaches in history you will rank McCarthy and Bruce Arians ahead of BB because his career has been more successful, but in the NFL RIGHT NOW McCarthy is the lead dog. JMO.

Last edited by Grave Digger

MM has to relish these moments when he goes up against a coach like Belichick. I thought one of MM's greatest games was that 2010 meeting. Nobody gave that team a chance and they were double digit underodgs heading in, and he out-schemed Belichick's defense with a backup QB. They came up short but I thought MM had that team about as well prepared as could be. Came right down to the last play, with Flynn just unable to get rid of the ball in time before he got hit

 

He did the same thing last night. No team really knew how to attack NE's defense ever since Browner returned from suspension, yet MM didn't flinch and gameplanned to pick apart other aspects of it before FORCING the Pats to change things up. That was an incredibly well executed offensive strategy by him and the team yesterday. The only negative was the red zone production...but they marched up and down the field each and every time vs that defense. The game could have been a lot uglier for NE if the Pack could convert just 1-2 of those red zone trips into TD's. They simply had no answer

Last edited by CAPackfan

MM has made progress towards greatness this year and yesterday in particular. One knock on the offense is that it relies too much on AR making great plays after the called play doesn't work.

 

What percentage of the Packers' successful plays happen as called? How many times does AR throw the ball on the 3rd or 5th step of his dropback vs how many big plays happen after things breakdown? That is one of the reasons I argue MM might not look so good without AR behind center.

Last edited by FreeSafety

So now McCarthy doesn't even call the plays? Why does he even bother showing up if Rodgers just runs the show anyway. What a crock. Let's dig deeper...what percentage of called plays were actually the right call and Rodgers changed it to the wrong call? What's the percentage of called plays does Rodgers ignore and call his own play like Jamie Foxx in Any Given Sunday?

Huh?  Strawman?

 

My point was one small knock on the offense is that I wish the team's success didn't rely so much on AR extending plays and making incredible throws. It makes me more nervous about the team if some injury to AR did occur. 

 

However, when you have a QB with that ability a coach might encourage it and make it part of the game plan. That very well could be.  

Last edited by FreeSafety
Originally Posted by Satori:
Originally Posted by Fond Du Arrigo:

 

I know you tend to react negatively when anyone suggests the possibility that someone outside the organization may be better than their counterpart inside the organization. I'll try to be more aware of your sensibilities in the future.

Nope, you're wrong yet again (which is consistent with your posting history here)

 

What I react negatively to... are weakly constructed arguments that are little more than a parrots pablum

( your specialty... and Pakrz too).

Weak arguments that are easily deconstructed with facts by anybody willing to invest some time and thought.

 

You stated a preference for Belichick as did our resident mensa Pakrz

 

 

 

 

Last edited by Iowacheese

From the Bedard article:

But the McCarthy I saw against the Patriots, and two weeks prior during the 53-20 victory over the NFC East-leading Eagles, was a more mature and evolved McCarthy. Mike 2.0? Maybe, considering that McCarthy said before this season, his ninth at the helm of the Packers, that he felt like he was at halftime of his career. He just seems much more in control of the game and his team.

 

Took Bedard longer but Henry saw the signs first. Lead post in the Norvening thread, Sept 14.

 

Originally Posted by Henry:

After watching the past 3 years of this horsehit, ****ing abysmal defense I had hope that MM was going to keep growing and become a complete coach.  With the absolute and utter failure of the first game and half (Seadicks defeated by the powerhouse Chargers), it was apparent that MM was hunkering down into a stagnant, failing "system".  Tenaciously hanging on to **** coaches, **** ideas leading to the eventual Lovieness and much deserved firing.

 

Something gave way in the 3rd quarter.  I don't know what or who or how but the defense starting playing like their jobs were on the line. House came into the game, "scheme" became run at the mother****er and tackle them.  

 

What gave?  Did MM realize the Norvening was bearing down on him?  Did play calling duties get pulled?  Did MM surrender duties?  How will the Lovieness play out over the next few weeks?  Did someone grow a ****ing set?

 Nostradamus.

Originally Posted by Henry:
I cannot say enough for MM's involvement in the defense this year, even if it's just as motivator and a force to shake up personnel.

Hmmm.

@jasonjwilde: #NFL game book has #Packers LB A.J. Hawk playing 26/56 snaps. @PFF has 27/58. Either way, first time he's played < 50% since 9/30/12 vs. NO.

 

@TyDunne: At ILB, Sam Barrington plays 47 snaps, A.J. Hawk 26 for the #Packers. Matthews 56 of 56. ... http://t.co/ZLVpkEYEHs

 

Originally Posted by FreeSafety:

Huh?  Strawman?

 

My point was one small knock on the offense is that I wish the team's success didn't rely so much on AR extending plays and making incredible throws.

 

However, when you have a QB with that ability a coach might encourage it and make it part of the game plan. That very well could be.  

I don't think the offense is reliant on that at all. Every offense asks the QB to make the right throws or extend the play, but they all play to the QBs strengths. Rodgers throws a really nice back-shoulder pass so that's called quite a bit. Rodgers is athletic and can extend the play so they use longer developing routes, if Rodgers was immobile like Peyton Manning then it would all be quick throws. MM is smart enough to cater his offense to his QB which is why he didn't ask Matt Flynn to do all the things Rodgers did when he had to start for him. 

Originally Posted by Grave Digger:
 MM is smart enough to cater his offense to his QB which is why he didn't ask Matt Flynn to do all the things Rodgers did when he had to start for him. 

That is really the key. He lets AR do more on his own because it works.

 

On a side note, I don't think MM calls back shoulder throws as such. There was even a interview soundbite from Jordy Nelson during yesterday's pregame to that affect. Paraphrasing Jordy "What people don't understand and I keep trying to tell them is that it is all the same route. Whether I run a slant, a fly, a post or if its is a back shoulder throw, it is all the same route. We adjust to the coverage and to what AR sees and wants to do."

 

I'd love to see a detailed NFLN segment on how that all works. 

 

 

Originally Posted by Goalline:
Originally Posted by CAPackfan:

This game finally convinced me that this D is good enough. This is the best team they've had since 2010 IMO.

Ahem. 2011. Yeah, still not in love with this D, but No 12 can carry this team to the very top.

 

The 2011 defense was terrible all year. It was just masked by the Packers having one of the historically greatest offenses led by a QB having one of the greatest seasons of all time. I tried to convince myself that their defense being that bad didn't matter because of how good the offense was, but I got a quick reminder in the playoff game after the Giants racked up 38 points with ease

 

This defense isn't great, but I think with the changes they made and Clay playing inside more, they have made strides. They won't carry this team, but I have more confidence in them holding their end of the bargain and getting enough key stops. They held 2 of the top 4 scoring offenses to 10-11 points below their season averages. I'll take that every time

 

 

 

 

There were times yesterday where it seemed Belichick made decisions like McCarthy of a few seasons back, and vice versa.

 

 

@FS, RE: McCarthy and Rodgers. It's really not one without the other, is it? As Rodgers improved with his ability to see the defense McCarthy has given him more freedom, because Rodgers plays within the scheme. That is something Favre wouldn't do, and while that was exciting for us fans it drove the coaches (at least Holmgren and McCarthy) nuts. While it looks like the play has broken down and Rodgers is making it happen, it's almost always within the scheme/play called. He doesn't hit Richie Rodgers for that TD yesterday without a full understanding of the plays called, offense and the defense. I give credit to McCarthy for scheming plays that when the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd options are not there the 4th option is pretty damn good, and knowing he has a QB to make it happen. And I give credit to Rodgers for knowing when to go to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th... levels. Final credit goes to Thompson.

 

 

I think they went 3 man front on the first drive, then switched it up after Lacy gouged them Also, they only blitzed on 14% of Rodgers drop backs. It's as if they thought they could take Rodgers weapons away and defend the back end. That worked in the red zone, but doesn't work from 32 yards out (Rodgers) or 45 yards out (Nelson).

Rodgers does two things very well.

 

A) He reacts quickly and decisively against the blitz.  He anticipates who is getting the one on one matchup and exploits it.  Clearly, you cannot blitz him.

 

2) He goes through progressions as well as any QB alive.  If you rush with three, Rodgers will check down and hit 8 different receivers all day long.  Still nobody open?  The guys scans the field and see's 1st down with his feet.  Clearly, you cannot just go coverage on him.  

 

How about all the touch passes he dropped in the bucket yesterday?  These are not just zipping passes and bombs at his disposal. 

Originally Posted by Satori:
 

I made my choice and my choice won. Yours lost and you are clearly having a difficult time accepting that. I'll try to be more aware of your sensitivities in the future, but I won't give a rats ass about them.

 

Yes, I'm struggling to accept that the team I've been rooting for my entire life won the biggest game of the year up to this point. I'm pretty stupid, as you so elequently pointed out...which probably explains why I'd be disappointed with my team winning the game. Because, after all, I would have been happier with getting the upperhand in an Internet argument with you.

 

Last edited by Fond Du Arrigo

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