- This defense.....my god
- Turnovers
+ Hey the game went OVER like I predicted
+ Fortunately it's only an AFC loss might not matter too much for NFC seeding
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Fuck this team.
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Appears the answer for a struggling Johnathan Taylor was the Packer run defense. Defense is what it is- not good enough for a deep playoff run.
Other than the three to tie the gam nothin in the second half (and OT).
Two many mistakes.
+
Overall a pretty good first half but the game is sixty minutes.
+ Super Sunday is a lot more relaxing when your team ain’t playing.
- we have to wait until Super Sunday to fire Pettine.
-
Special teams has a ways to go. Horrible fumble aside, Shepard simply isn't dynamic or fast enough to return kickoffs.
@michiganjoe posted:-
Special teams has a ways to go. Horrible fumble aside, Shepard simply isn't dynamic or fast enough to return kickoffs.
A ways to go implies they are improving. Year 2 of the Menega project...I would rather have Zook or Slocum back.
+Rodgers showing he’s still one of the best in the league.
-Packers wasting another year of Rodgers’ career showing they only really want to ride his coattails to a 4th NFCC embarrassment since they draft players who don’t even play, or even suit up for that matter.
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Second half collapse was complete involved all three phases. Appeared Indy adjusted at the half and the Packers just did what they did in the first and it wasn't good enough.
- Sheppard...cut him tomorrow. He got lucky on the review of one kickoff that he misplayed, took the next one out of the end zone and got stopped short of the 15, then fumbled one.
- Preston Smith. Do they just ignore the need to hold the edge?
- Clock management on the last drive of regulation. Had enough time not to spike it after the last first down. Ended up giving them only two tries for a winning td, and Rodgers basically gave up on the second one.
- constantly throwing on 3rd and 1. Why did they draft a 250-lb bulldozer in the second round if they don't intend to use him?
+ Great first half, but they were out-adjusted badly in the second half.
Got nothing else. Huge disappointment and lost opportunity to steal a win that many were not expecting.
While I get that the Colts dominated the TOP, the Packers just came out flat as fuck on defense to open the 3rd Q. It's like they just looked up at the score board, saw the 14 point lead and figured they could just coast in the 2nd half. Rong!
Pettine doesn't know how to get the best out of his defensive players. Placing 91 and dropping him deep in coverage is just utterly stupid. Multiple times the Packers secondary also had absolute blown coverages. That's not talent, that's piss poor coaching.
GB has also been way too sloppy with the football the last 2 weeks. They could be easily 0-2 in those games.
It looks more and more this will be 12-4/11-5 year, GB wins the North. Maybe they get one playoff win and then they will be done in again because of their defense. Specifically the run D.
Same shit. Same story. It's a shame because Rodgers is probably going to win another MVP. This looks like 2014 (including Special Teams gaffes) all over again.
@NumberThree posted:+Rodgers showing he’s still one of the best in the league.
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Yes... the fumbled snap for a turnover, the late throw to MVS that resulted in an INT and especially the 10-yard overthrow on 4th down on the last drive in the 4th quarter were special. Elite even.
Go 12. He's the best.
Christian Kirksey after the OT loss: "I love this defense."
— Rob Demovsky (@RobDemovsky) November 23, 2020
Right now, opposing offenses might love playing against it. pic.twitter.com/rfPcOlJd4b
Jesus fu**
@packerboi posted:It looks more and more this will be 12-4/11-5 year, GB wins the North. Maybe they get one playoff win and then they will be done in again because of their defense. Specifically the run D.
Same shit. Same story. It's a shame because Rodgers is probably going to win another MVP. This looks like 2014 (including Special Teams gaffes) all over again.
Pick a lane.
I think they are lucky to get to 10-6, which still gets them in the playoffs with the new rules.
Normally, with these kind of playoff runs you wait to see who is going to step up to maybe get the team over the hump. There is absolutely no one to fill the void in the middle of this defense. Even if Kamal Martin just starts playing like a beast he's only one guy in a defense that needs an infusion of about four guys.
It's just a fucking dead end. Takes some of the joy out of the game.
1997 when the refs should have stopped the Indianapolis Colts from taking a knee.
@RochNyFan posted:- Sheppard...cut him tomorrow. He got lucky on the review of one kickoff that he misplayed, took the next one out of the end zone and got stopped short of the 15, then fumbled one.
Cut Darius Shepherd?
NOPE.
NO WAY.
Darius is PACKER PEOPLE and we don't cut PACKER PEOPLE.
Darius is the embodiment of the reality that production on the football field is not the primary concern.
PS How F'ng bad must Seth Roberts be that he is not active behind Malik Taylor and Darius Shepherd?
@RochNyFan posted:Opie sucked today.
Probably need to bring in some serious competition for him next camp. Gutey's fifth round choice at this point doesn't appear to be such a shrewd move.
Looking at who they have left, they likely go 13-3.
CHI 2x, PHI, DET, CAR, TEN.
But man this defense is maddening.
@Pakrz posted:😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yes... the fumbled snap for a turnover, the late throw to MVS that resulted in an INT and especially the 10-yard overthrow on 4th down on the last drive in the 4th quarter were special. Elite even.
Go 12. He's the best.
Snap was on Linsley, who was hurt. The late throw that had no air under like OTP probably should've at least tried to come back for instead of stopping whatever route he was running altogether.
Not sure why you think a QB is going to complete every pass but you have to be friggin' nuts to think he isn't one of the best in the league.
@Pakrz posted:😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yes... the fumbled snap for a turnover, the late throw to MVS that resulted in an INT and especially the 10-yard overthrow on 4th down on the last drive in the 4th quarter were special. Elite even.
Go 12. He's the best.
Yep, the guy who is leading the league in QBR and is PFF #1 rated QB is our weakness.
@Pakrz posted:😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yes... the fumbled snap for a turnover, the late throw to MVS that resulted in an INT and especially the 10-yard overthrow on 4th down on the last drive in the 4th quarter were special. Elite even.
Go 12. He's the best.
That bad snap was all on Linsley. It never even hit Rodgers hands. I didn't like the 3rd down throw on the last drive in regulation - he was locked in on Adams and Tonyan appeared open. My only other complaint was spiking the ball when they picked up that last first down. I thought they had plenty of time and giving up a down was not a good move.
@FLPACKER posted:Yep, the guy who is leading the league in QBR and is PFF #1 rated QB is our weakness.
And those two throws to MVS that travelled 55+ yards in the air and hit him in stride in the chest are typical what you see from every QB in the league.
@FLPACKER posted:Yep, the guy who is leading the league in QBR and is PFF #1 rated QB is our weakness.
These Rodgers haters on the board are probably going to love Love.
12 is NOT the problem the problem is the coaching and the defense with st for good measure
You guys have got to be kidding that 12 is the problem - wait until we have crappy qb play...in a couple years
Pettine doesn't know how to get the best out of his defensive players. Placing 91 and dropping him deep in coverage is just utterly stupid. Multiple times the Packers secondary also had absolute blown coverages. That's not talent, that's piss poor coaching.
THIS! I would fire him before the next game. Promote ANYONE on the staff to be Acting DC. Send a message to the fools on the field that THEIR jobs are on the line for the future. Other than Jaire, Raven Green and Occasionally Winn, a group of underachievers.
+ I liked the pass rush and pressure. It caused a lot of holding calls. I liked that they did not break off a lot of long runs like was projected. I liked that we were still in the game right up to the end.
- turnovers, “Special” teams again.
@pkr_north posted:12 is NOT the problem the problem is the coaching and the defense with st for good measure
I think you meant to say the problem is two or three crappy drafts in a row and a stubborn GM who has ignored the d-line and inside lb positions, leading to a defense that can't close out a game.
Interesting final stats, we gained more yards per play than they did but they ran 17 more plays than we did.
Shit on Rodgers if you want, but 31 points against the best defense in the league is a quality effort. 31 points against the best defense in the league is a winnable output, if you believe Rodgers was a problem today then you’re just wrong. He can’t help 2 crucial fumbles from receivers.
Pos...doesnt matter because we lost
Neg...
This D is a liability unless they are getting turnovers consistently. We got fooled in 2019 because they were so adept at TO.
Kirksey is a discount Blartinez...whoop de fuckin doo
Martin and Barnes are the shiniest of the turds in the ILB corps. Neither are stars but appear to be because the bar is so fucking low.
Interior DL is also a shitshow and the corps of why the run D is so consistently bad.
But the real star of the show is Pettine. Every week there seems to be a new way to fail. The best we can hope for is they slow the opponent down just enough to let 12, 17 and 33 outscore the opponent.
I blame MLF for none of this shit. Its all on Gutey and Murphy and their fucked up “silo” setup. The Packers board needs get rid of Murphy and bring in a president who empowers his GM to run the entire show, and let MLF hire his own DC and STC.
Until that happens this is what we get...NFL franchise that is paint by numbers...propped up by an NFL HOF QB.
+ we took one of the top defensive teams to the wire in their own building despite multiple turnovers.
- Should have closed it out and couldn't.
- The Mike Pettine led defense
-The play call on the quick hit wr screen to a guy whose one strength is getting downfield on a straight line. As bad as it is for MVS tonight, the real culprit is the one putting him in that position knowing full well there are multiple options to deal with ball security in such a big spot.
-MLF getting badly outschemed and pissing away a chance for a big W on the road.
Special Team needs to really get their act together. This Kick returns so awful that can expect teams moving forward to kick high and short. Since defense can’t stop anyone they will get lots of practice.
Speaking of defense why any opposing offense would ever worry about 3 and long amazes me. We give those up at an alarming pace.
I’ll cut offense some slack 31 should be enough However when look back at film some of the calls I love me some Jamal Williams great great complement to Jones but in 4tj down you need your best.
I’m summary offense not a real concern even with turnovers but defense and special teams just like under M3 need to pay more than just lip service.
@Chongo posted:I blame MLF for none of this shit. Its all on Gutey and Murphy and their fucked up “silo” setup. The Packers board needs get rid of Murphy and bring in a president who empowers his GM to run the entire show, and let MLF hire his own DC and STC.
Agree with this statement, and in terms of empowering the GM to run the entire show..... I have at least some doubts that Gutekunst is the guy to get us over the top. He's made a few great moves that have allowed the Pack to rebound from the 2017-18 shitshow. But the great moves have been combined with so many shaky personnel moves or poor draft picks that it feels like the Pack is still a few players away from winning it all.
Who knows, maybe this coming offseason he'll look at all the mistakes that were made the past few years and figure out a way to learn from them. But my goodness have there been a lot of mistakes made, and games like this against very solid teams are when all the Pack's warts are shown.
And yeah, watching the pansy ass way that Pettine coaches defense really can be maddening. In fairness, they are short some personnel there, but geez do they play some chickenshit schemes at times. The biggest strength today was that they probably had the greatest game I have ever seen in terms of being able to draw holding calls, LOL. But you aren't going to be that lucky every week.
@michiganjoe posted:Probably need to bring in some serious competition for him next camp. Gutey's fifth round choice at this point doesn't appear to be such a shrewd move.
Completely agree. I don't trust Opie at all. When the chips are down and the Pack needs a huge punt to flip the field, I don't think he's the guy to do it. He may be able to do it in practice and tantalize everyone with his potential, but when the pressure is really on, I think he's ordinary at best.
Just mental mistakes. Gute decided to ride with young talent at receiver and poor depth at DL and these are those key games where blowing those decisions is really magnified.
+
7-3 and still in contention for the bye! Probably win the division! 12-4 seems likely! Heck, the NFC doesn't look that daunting this year. Saints are always a tough out, but we seem to play them as well as anyone. TB might be this year's kryptonite like SF was last year, but I don't know that I'm ready to go there yet. 13-3 last year! 3 NFCC appearances in 6 years. Playoffs 8 of 10 years! How can anyone be pissed?! A Lion fan would murder their children for that!
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This franchise has been fine generally sitting on their hands and watching AR cover up all the worts and issues on this team. They rarely go with a "let's try to materially get better at this obvious weak spot" move, let alone anything resembling "go all in"
But, because AR provides cover for the GM, front office, and coach - doing nothing is almost always enough!
Whether it's half assed coaching, an abomination of a defense seemingly every year, a decade+ of completely ignoring the ILB position, being allergic to spending any real resources on drafting or signing a WR, or trotting out guys on the starting DL that are at best mediocre depth for any defense worth a damn...
AR is the disinfectant that covers up a lot of odors coming out of 1265. When healthy, an AR led Packers team will almost always win the trash NFC North. They will win at least 1 playoff game more often than not. They will be in contention for the NFCC often enough that a lot of fanbases would kill for that. But those issues are always there and when push comes to shove, those issues are exposed clearly.
But that's good enough for an executive leadership that (cynically but I mean come on) frankly seems more concerned with the real estate developments of the franchise than doing everything to win a championship in the dwindling window of having the best QB in the game.
I know it’s convenient to blame MVS for the loss, and he should get a lot. Fumbling the ball away is inexcusable.
But this one is on the coaching staff. One example:
- the Packers on 4th down with the game on the line had Williams in there running a flat pass and not Jones. Your best weapon out of the backfield on the sideline? Stupid.
- the soft coverage all game long was unthinkable. One example: 3rd and 20 on defense and they go soft coverage, allowing 16 yards and putting them in FG range. But you let Rivers sit back there with time and you’re not attacking his main weakness- he can’t move. But they didn’t go after him, and he made them pay.
Pressure is the equalizer. They let Rivers beat them. They didn’t have to.
Jenkins moving to center was seamless. Runyon looks like he can play. Offensive line fir future looks really good.
We've been so damn lucky/fortunate with almost 30 straight years of HOF QB play that it's almost unbelievable. (Looking at you Bears.) For a league that's primarily QB driven, the sad part is that we really don't have shit to show for it. (I do realize a lot of teams would kill for 2 Lombardi's during that time.) Anything can happen, but unfortunately the odds are against that streak continuing for much longer.
+
I love the offensive line - especially Elgton Jenkins. Adam Stenavich must be a fantastic coach. That was a really good Colts defense and with a bit better play calling in the third quarter (RTFB and keep the shitty Packers defense off the field), the Pack would have won the game. Losing Linsley and inserting Runyan didn't miss a beat (foreshadows the Linsley FA decision). Lucas Patrick has filled in great for Lane Taylor all year. Billy Turner has stabilized losing Bulaga in FA and even helped bridge losing Bakh for multiple games. Hell, even Rick Wagner has been somewhat competent when asked to play.
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Pettine has lost all credibility and Preston Smith is an easy cap casualty once the new season officially starts. Actually the entire DL deserves to get walking papers (except for Kenny Clark - this year, his cap hit doesn't happen until 2022). Next year's draft is easy - two WRs, two DL, two CB, one ILB, one OLB, and a center (I think the Pack will have at least 9 picks next year after considering compensatory picks).
Is there anyone on our defense that keeps an offensive coordinator up nights? Anyone that needs to be accounted for on every snap? K.C. maybe? Maybe.
@Timpranillo posted:But that's good enough for an executive leadership that (cynically but I mean come on) frankly seems more concerned with the real estate developments of the franchise than doing everything to win a championship in the dwindling window of having the best QB in the game.
I agree with this. I think Mark Murphy is not the leader this team needs right now, but it seems to go beyond that. The board must have the courage to dedicate the resources to maximizing on-field results.
I get that creative revenue streams are necessary for the future viability of this uniquely positioned franchise, and that the emphasis on real estate development helps to that end. Murphy has been the kind of guy that has been able to help that happen, but when it comes to building a true CHAMPIONSHIP team, he is more knowledgeable about the money making than getting the front office personnel for the job and having the most effective structure in place for success.
I liken this to “The Godfather”. Tom Hagen was a great and trusted consigliere during times of peace, but when Don Corleone was wanting a wartime consigliere, he needed to look elsewhere. The real estate projects, the coalition of businesses operating on GBP property, the stadium renovations, all good things that happened during Murphy’s tenure, but the focus must now shift to winning, and nothing but.
Now that we approach the end of the Favre/Rodgers era of legendary quarterbacking, we need a leader who will find the best GM that money can buy, and know that this person will get the job done with no micromanagement. The current configuration of power seems like an amateur operation. Is Gutekunst as inept as he appears, or is he hamstrung by Murphy, who is beholden to the board? The revenue-creating infrastructure is now in place, it is time to focus completely on a commitment to winning, because the challenge is about to become infinitely more difficult as Rodgers is phased out. Our golden age of amazing QBs is about to end.
@lovepack posted:Is there anyone on our defense that keeps an offensive coordinator up nights? Anyone that needs to be accounted for on every snap? K.C. maybe? Maybe.
Don't throw at Jaire Alexander. That's what's most amazing. They have an absolute lockdown corner that basically takes away half the field and they still can't stop anyone.
The MVS fumble was not the reason these Packers lost the game. Way too easy to cherry pick that and overlook the same damn glaring defeciencies going on with this team for years and years.
Death threats? Beyond ridiculous.
Hard to win when you turn the ball over 4 times.
Pettine is just a bad DC. There are definitely some talent deficiencies, but some of the scheme calls are incompetent ... and being repeated week after week. Can’t even cover basic crossing routes, Preston in coverage, Lowry constantly used as the DT in a 2 man front, off coverage on 3rd and long, Deep zone on running downs, etc..
Great strategy by the Colts to force the Packers to return several KO’s. Especially when you have a mistake prone fringe roster guy with marginal speed returning. Shepard has had some brutal moments as a Packer.
Opie might be another missed draft pick. Too many ugly ones from him.
Such a great 1st half and then they come out an shit the bed in the 3rd quarter.
Offense scored 28 points in the 1st half and disappeared in the 2nd half...3 points at the very end of regulation.
Not sure when, but Pettine needs to go !!!
@Packy posted:
Biggest negative is this. Really, death threats...unbelievable and very sad.
That shit is inexcusable - You let me know if they're a member of https://t.co/LU779GPUjx -- I'll take it from there
— Boris at Timesfour (@x4_Packers) November 23, 2020
Beyond the pale. Some real nutjobs out there.
Idk the personnel on that play, but you have an all world wideout and a pro bowl rb that know how to protect the ball. And the way Rodgers was able to pick and choose his spots, there's no reason to call such a stupid play from your own 30. MVS was at a disadvantage the moment that play was designated to go to him. It was a terrible fumble, costly. But the best coaches put their guys in position to make plays. The fact that it was even an option in their own territory is highly suspect, especially in ot and especially with a guy who wasn't on the same page as AR previously in the game. The game was on the line, MLF should know that, and put the ball in the hands of ball handlers.
things tougher than the Packers
@RochNyFan posted:My only other complaint was spiking the ball when they picked up that last first down.
Entire clock management on that final drive is something they need to look at and apparently are.
Aaron Jones is an absolute must re-sign - F the salary cap -- He has 3 more great years left at a minimum
Head UP like a true warrior love you bro 🤞🏾😤💯@MVS__11 https://t.co/1GGFsAMfgk
— Aaron Jones 3️⃣3️⃣ (@Showtyme_33) November 23, 2020
@Pakrz posted:😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yes... the fumbled snap for a turnover, the late throw to MVS that resulted in an INT and especially the 10-yard overthrow on 4th down on the last drive in the 4th quarter were special. Elite even.
Go 12. He's the best.
Emotionally driven bad take. My apologies to the offended parties.
Anyone else notice the body language on the sideline when the defense once again was crapping itself? MLF is yelling at them, Pettine has this blank "I don't know what to do" look on his face, Adams is pissed, and AR is just shaking his head.
The biggest negative to me is once again a big spotlight game the Packers find a way to lose. You can't turn over the ball to a team like the Colts and expect to win and you have to play something resembling defense as well. I don't know what to say anymore about the defense. There are a couple of good players on that side of the ball but it is so poorly schemed, poorly coached and soft its maddening.
Positives? Its on to Bears week! TBSS!!
+s
Game was entertaining and went to OT
-s
This team needs to visit Oz as it has
No heart (on D mostly),
No guts and gumption (look at the 4th down play by Indy, that is gutsy. Us not running the ball on 3rd and 1 and 3rd and half yard shows we have no guts to blow people off the line), and
No brains (how many off-sides and mental mistakes)
Without AR this team won't win 8 games a season
@lovepack posted:Is there anyone on our defense that keeps an offensive coordinator up nights? Anyone that needs to be accounted for on every snap? K.C. maybe? Maybe.
KC is constantly double teamed. There was a blip in JSO where he talked about it. Doesn't matter how good you are if you constantly have to beat 2 or more guys.
The backfield in general is pretty damn decent. It's just the middle of the front 7 is so bad they are essentially absorbing the ILB position as well. That's why you're seeing Greene making tackles around the line. There are some good blitzing safeties on this team but they aren't and often can't be utilized.
@Henry posted:It positively gave me the vapors! You cad!
Remember when I said all those people who declared “dagger” before there was an actual dagger could perform fellatio on me? While I appreciate the PM’s, it was a figure of speech.
/Gary still on two week reprieve/
Imagine how this team might look if there were three more contributors from the last two drafts? Did Dillon even play? ESB caught a ball, that was nice.
Shitty drafting and Pettine are what wastes another year.
Statistically, this is a middle of the road defense. The only teams in contention that are worse though are Seattle, Tennessee, Buffalo, and Vegas. This offense is very good. I agree with many of the thoughts in the above posts. I don't like our defensive scheme. Our special teams are a liability. However, I'm not ready to write off this year as another wasted season. With the remaining schedule, this team could possibly be 13-3/12-4 and still get the bye. There is a lot of football left to be played and if we get hot/healthy at the right time, who knows. As Thanksgiving approaches let us all be thankful that we are not the loins, bears, or Viqueens.
Henry's "this defense is a dead end" could be the statement of the year.
The Packers still think they're a good team - Read what Rodgers said....
This might bug some fans, but the Packers still think they’re really good. They turned it over 4 times and still scored 31, losing in OT to a very good team. https://t.co/hHGjQuafk8
— Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) November 23, 2020
@El-Ka-Bong posted:/Gary still on two week reprieve/
Imagine how this team might look if there were three more contributors from the last two drafts? Did Dillon even play? ESB caught a ball, that was nice.
Shitty drafting and Pettine are what wastes another year.
You tend to get your best players from the top rounds of the draft, obviously. There is a reason they are drafted that high. ESB is a 6th rounder. MVS was a 5th rounder. They aren't really supposed to be franchise cornerstones.
Love, Dillon, and DeGuara as a result of rounds 1-4 this year is something that will haunt the franchise for years if they come up short again this year or if Love doesn't turn out to be a superstar. If they go on a run this year or next or if Love turns out to be a mini-Mahomes it was a good decision. If not, Gutey should be gone in 4-5 years.
@The Heckler posted:Anyone else notice the body language on the sideline when the defense once again was crapping itself? MLF is yelling at them, Pettine has this blank "I don't know what to do" look on his face, Adams is pissed, and AR is just shaking his head.
I didn't hear about that, but if true and MLF is yelling at the defense, good!
Someone or something needs to light a fire in their ass.
I think this sums it up perfectly
+++ ESB caught a pass and tried to make the most of it. Our 1st half was decent. Elgton Jenkins is a phenomenal player. The Packers O Line is the best part of this team. A patchwork quilt of players, playing multiple positions, who gelled to become the best unit on this team. Now lets get players who can help our Defense to come together. Rodgers moved us down the field, and put us in a position to win, in that 2 minute drill, at the end of regulation. Everyone in the NFC North lost, today, except for the Bears, who had a bye. We get the Bears next Sunday night.
--- Our 2nd half sucked! We needed a TD to win the game in that 2 minute drill. Turnovers and stupid penalties killed us. Once again, Pettine had Preston Smith covering a Colts' WR. That is ridiculous! I had to stream this game. We had to try several streams, as each stream lost sound and picture, a few minutes into the stream. I could tell that this was not going to be a good day for the Pack, nor for my nerves. Oh well!
- Rodgers yukking it up with Rivers after the game. I prefer garbage can throwing guys after a loss. Sometimes it appears we take this stuff more seriously than the players. I know deep down that he took the loss hard and is a fierce competitor but instead of laughing with Phil how about screaming at Pettine.
@artis posted:Idk the personnel on that play, but you have an all world wideout and a pro bowl rb that know how to protect the ball. And the way Rodgers was able to pick and choose his spots, there's no reason to call such a stupid play from your own 30. MVS was at a disadvantage the moment that play was designated to go to him. It was a terrible fumble, costly. But the best coaches put their guys in position to make plays. The fact that it was even an option in their own territory is highly suspect, especially in ot and especially with a guy who wasn't on the same page as AR previously in the game. The game was on the line, MLF should know that, and put the ball in the hands of ball handlers.
What makes it worse was that it was 2nd and 2. Maybe you call that play if it's 2nd and long and you need to take a chance to get back to 3rd and manageable. You have Aaron Jones in the game - run the ball and pick up the 1st down twice and keep their defense on its heels.
The 4th and 1 play in the 4th quarter (and the two 3rd and shorts in the 3rd quarter) were also poor decisions schematically. I've always hated the shotgun on 3rd/4th and short because it takes away the best part of your playbook in that situation - play action. That scheme may even make sense if you are the 2010-11 Packers and you can spread the field with Nelson, Jones, Jennings, Driver, Finley, and Cobb to get the best 1 x 1 matchup. But are you really going to be at an advantage spreading out Shepard, ESB, and Malik Taylor as some of your options? If you are going to pass, play-action keeps the DEs from firing off the ball and the LBs from getting depth on their drops. The only running play possible is a draw and that's a high-risk play that's almost as likely to result in a 5 yard loss as a long gainer.
The other thing about the OT play is that MVS cut toward the middle of the field and didn't protect the ball. Watching it live, I was thinking maybe this will work well because I thought he was going to run toward the sideline and pick up an easy 4-5 yards and the first down. It's a different discussion if MVS was supposed to take that wide (or just put two hands on the ball and run straight forward). Has anyone seen if they commented on that's how that was designed (or maybe it's just throw him the ball and let him decide?)
@Pikes Peak posted:- Rodgers yukking it up with Rivers after the game. I prefer garbage can throwing guys after a loss. Sometimes it appears we take this stuff more seriously than the players. I know deep down that he took the loss hard and is a fierce competitor but instead of laughing with Phil how about screaming at Pettine.
That stuff is better handled in the locker room.
There's always been a different standard for Rodgers too. If Tom Brady screams at someone on the field, he's "being a leader." If Rodgers does the same thing, he's "difficult and a poor teammate."
I don't have any concerns about Rodgers not having competitive fire. For all we know, he could have been laughing with Rivers about how bad our defense is and saying that "I can't believe how fukking awful our defense is. I wish I could play against them - I'd put up 500 yards and 6 TDs."
@MichiganPacker2 posted:What makes it worse was that it was 2nd and 2. Maybe you call that play if it's 2nd and long and you need to take a chance to get back to 3rd and manageable. You have Aaron Jones in the game - run the ball and pick up the 1st down twice and keep their defense on its heels.
The 4th and 1 play in the 4th quarter (and the two 3rd and shorts in the 3rd quarter) were also poor decisions schematically. I've always hated the shotgun on 3rd/4th and short because it takes away the best part of your playbook in that situation - play action. That scheme may even make sense if you are the 2010-11 Packers and you can spread the field with Nelson, Jones, Jennings, Driver, Finley, and Cobb to get the best 1 x 1 matchup. But are you really going to be at an advantage spreading out Shepard, ESB, and Malik Taylor as some of your options? If you are going to pass, play-action keeps the DEs from firing off the ball and the LBs from getting depth on their drops. The only running play possible is a draw and that's a high-risk play that's almost as likely to result in a 5 yard loss as a long gainer.
The other thing about the OT play is that MVS cut toward the middle of the field and didn't protect the ball. Watching it live, I was thinking maybe this will work well because I thought he was going to run toward the sideline and pick up an easy 4-5 yards and the first down. It's a different discussion if MVS was supposed to take that wide (or just put two hands on the ball and run straight forward). Has anyone seen if they commented on that's how that was designed (or maybe it's just throw him the ball and let him decide?)
THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@DH13 posted:Henry's "this defense is a dead end" could be the statement of the year.
It was the opening 10-3 win at Chicago a year ago where Rodgers gushed about having a defense. Seven losses and numerous cardiac inducing wins later, the defense looks more clueless and exasperated than ever. It's become pathetic and embarrassing to watch these guys fail time and time again. They seemed much more active in the 1st half yesterday, and whether it was dumb luck or good football, they forced a couple turnovers that led to a 14 pt lead.
I'm not a scheme guy. I can't look at a formation and determine what job belongs to who. I know for anything to flow, the d line needs to win at the point of attack. I know pressure on the qb is usually a really good thing. I know in numerous games in the past 3-4 years a decent secondary has been forced to cover guys far too long on a given play. I know our lbs have been well below average for a good long time. What I can't figure out is how this unit can get schooled so badly and so often. Rivers floated balls all over the yard, and the target still had room to catch and run. The run d looked as good in the 1st half as it has in the last 2 years, then they get steamrolled to start the 2nd half. Is it scheme? Is it crummy players, or stupid players? It seems to me if you have a solid gameplan, marginal players and backups should still be able to step in and if nothing else hold serve based on assignment and hustle. We know they're soft. But why are they so out of position ALL the time? Why are they beaten SO badly on a routine basis?
Here's the MVS fumble in slo-mo. Issue on the play was mainly a failure of both Lazard and Tonyan in blocking Blackmon.
@Packdog posted:Hard to win when you turn the ball over 4 times.
Pettine is just a bad DC. There are definitely some talent deficiencies, but some of the scheme calls are incompetent ... and being repeated week after week. Can’t even cover basic crossing routes, Preston in coverage, Lowry constantly used as the DT in a 2 man front, off coverage on 3rd and long, Deep zone on running downs, etc..
Great strategy by the Colts to force the Packers to return several KO’s. Especially when you have a mistake prone fringe roster guy with marginal speed returning. Shepard has had some brutal moments as a Packer.
Opie might be another missed draft pick. Too many ugly ones from him.
Such a great 1st half and then they come out an shit the bed in the 3rd quarter.
Offense scored 28 points in the 1st half and disappeared in the 2nd half...3 points at the very end of regulation.
Not sure when, but Pettine needs to go !!!
Pettine's scheme is designed to make the other execute 12 to 15 play drives and hope that they make a mistake at some point. It's why they drop guys 15 yards deep on 3rd and 10 instead of coming after the QB and forcing the ball out. It's playing dime defense to open the second half on every down and distance to not give up a big play.
The only drives they get stops on are if Z. Smith gets a sack or if a QB makes a terrible throw or if a WR drops a pass. Once in a while, they'll stuff a running play, but that's just someone making a play 1x1, not because they came up with a creative run blitz.
For the most part, they approach every defensive play with a mindset not to give up a big play instead of forcing the action and making a big play (which would risk giving up a big play). That works much better against inexperienced QBs or mistake-prone guys. The two games against Minnesota were a perfect example of this. In the first game, Cousins made some terrible decisions with risky throws which were the difference in the game. In the second game, they clearly told Cousins not to make any risky throws and were just patient with running Cook and doing dump downs.
@Pikes Peak posted:- Rodgers yukking it up with Rivers after the game. I prefer garbage can throwing guys after a loss. Sometimes it appears we take this stuff more seriously than the players. I know deep down that he took the loss hard and is a fierce competitor but instead of laughing with Phil how about screaming at Pettine.
i agree, fans take it way more seriously. Death threats to MVS? Come on. Grow the hell up. Those guys are all friends and have relationships outside the game. Nothing wrong with Rodgers smiling and laughing with Rivers.
Still really am confused about the 2 stop clock spikes on that last drive of regulation
1st & 10 at IND 47
(1:10 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short middle to D.Adams to IND 33 for 14 yards (K.Moore).
1st & 10 at IND 33
(0:57 - 4th) (No Huddle, Shotgun) A.Rodgers spiked the ball to stop the clock.
You had basically a minute to go at their 33, you had just completed a 14 yard play so there wasn't that much scrambling to get back to the line. Still not a fan of it today and would rather force the D into scramble mode of keeping up, but fine. Catch your breath, get a good play.
2nd & 10 at IND 33
(0:57 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short middle to D.Adams to IND 15 for 18 yards (K.Moore).
1st & 10 at IND 15
(0:42 - 4th) (No Huddle) A.Rodgers spiked the ball to stop the clock.
This one however, I do not understand at all. After the completion to Adams you had nearly 45 seconds, at their 15 after an 18 yard play where there was no major scrambling waiting on guys 40 yards down the field. 45 seconds is more than enough time to get 3 shots at EZ even if you don't get OOB on one (hell maybe two) of them.
If you don't clock it there, you'll get at least 3 shots before having to kick the FG. They clocked it and ended up giving themselves only 2 shots, which included wasting 15-20 seconds to snap the ball for 3rd and 3 after the Tonyan completion where he stayed in bounds. And that's all ignoring the ability to quickly run a play while Indy is trying to line up, not be offsides, catch their breath, and not panic about blowing the game vs giving them a breather and time to line up and call a play.
Just so many mistakes and breakdowns across the board, but simple basic good clock management would have at least given them 1 more shot to win it in regulation.
@michiganjoe posted:Here's the MVS fumble in slo-mo. Issue on the play was mainly a failure of both Lazard and Tonyan in blocking Blackmon.
And if the HC knows his personnel, he doesn't call on an inconsistent player to execute that play. Way too many moving parts, too many things going on around the guy with the ball. That's a play you run on the other side of midfield, and to a reliable vet. The o line did a great job giving Rodgers time to find guys on north/south plays. Every scoring drive was vg rhythm and positive chunk yards. Why on earth would you get cute on 2nd and 2? It was a ridiculous idea against a good, smart, disciplined defense.
@artis posted:It was the opening 10-3 win at Chicago a year ago where Rodgers gushed about having a defense. Seven losses and numerous cardiac inducing wins later, the defense looks more clueless and exasperated than ever. It's become pathetic and embarrassing to watch these guys fail time and time again. They seemed much more active in the 1st half yesterday, and whether it was dumb luck or good football, they forced a couple turnovers that led to a 14 pt lead.
I'm not a scheme guy. I can't look at a formation and determine what job belongs to who. I know for anything to flow, the d line needs to win at the point of attack. I know pressure on the qb is usually a really good thing. I know in numerous games in the past 3-4 years a decent secondary has been forced to cover guys far too long on a given play. I know our lbs have been well below average for a good long time. What I can't figure out is how this unit can get schooled so badly and so often. Rivers floated balls all over the yard, and the target still had room to catch and run. The run d looked as good in the 1st half as it has in the last 2 years, then they get steamrolled to start the 2nd half. Is it scheme? Is it crummy players, or stupid players? It seems to me if you have a solid gameplan, marginal players and backups should still be able to step in and if nothing else hold serve based on assignment and hustle. We know they're soft. But why are they so out of position ALL the time? Why are they beaten SO badly on a routine basis?
I remember very well when Rodgers said something like "how about that defense we have a defense" well I am sure he no longer feels that way.
Artis, I think it is both scheme and part crummy players. When you are starting Lancaster and Lowery on the DL and a endless parade of crappy ILBs you are going to have trouble stopping the run. Because the players are crappy ABM is having to rush the OLBs constantly and when they over commit the RBs run right by them. One other thing that I notice about the Packers defense compared to other teams is they don't HIT you and they definitely can't tackle. I will eventually stop ranting about the defense but I don't think I will anytime soon.
@artis posted:And if the HC knows his personnel, he doesn't call on an inconsistent player to execute that play.
Won't get any argument from me that Lazard was probably a better choice on the play. That said, he and Tonyan do a better job and Blackmon doesn't force a fumble and it's not an issue.
@Floridarob posted:Grow the hell up. Those guys are all friends and have relationships outside the game. Nothing wrong with Rodgers smiling and laughing with Rivers.
Exactly.
Rivers & Rodgers were literally neighbors for several years out in San Diego.
Did Packer fans object when Rodgers and (another of his former SD neighbors) Brees greeted one another after we beat the Saints earlier this season?
I did have to chuckle at Troy's burn on the defense in the first quarter.
I wish I could tell you what kind of defense the Packers are playing but I can't. It looks like they're just running around out there.
I loved that and it showed way Pettine should be fired NOW! Pathetic.
@RochNyFan posted:I'm guessing they drop 1 of the 2 to Chicago, and will have real trouble with Tennessee.
Tennessee is going to beat us to a pulp. We can't stop the fucking run, for Christ sakes.
Use Martin and Barnes, Sit Kirksey, our only shot against Tennessee.... Also More Gary.
Another view of the MVS fumble with a better angle of the woeful blocking (MVS certainly shouldn't get a pass on the poor ball security).
Elton Jenkins live right now with a great mask on
Elgton Jenkins meets with the media on Monday 🎥 https://t.co/xjnYnO1dp0
— Green Bay Packers (@packers) November 23, 2020