Will Cobb last the season? History says no.
RELAX, we’re 1-0. Without AR playing preseason and a new head coach it may take awhile but the O will be there.
vitaflo posted:Last year he was hobbling around with a gimpy leg and MM's anemic play calling.
Even Favre had a horrible 4-12 season under Sherman before MM was hired and then he went 13-3.
And in both instances the biggest factor was a roster that TT turned to shit, one intentional, one not.
That's not personnel- it's a clear deterioration in play from earlier in his career. Fennell asks the relevant question:
Where did that QB go?
michiganjoe posted:That's not personnel- it's a clear deterioration in play from earlier in his career. Fennell asks the relevant question:
Where did that QB go?
Love this quote: “You don’t get older and hold the ball longer. That’s not how this works.” That’s a perfect characterization of 12’s issues. If he wants Brady’s longevity, he’s got to change now. Fall in love with the quick slant again. It’s always been magical."
Here are several hypotheses about ARod’s apparent decline in passing.
1. He’s suffering shell shock. When the OL starts to collapse he locks up. He doesn’t dance like he used to. He freezes. He doesn’t really see the open receiver he is looking at. If he’s looking at all, he’s looking to run or fold. And the guard play has not been reliable like it was in the glory years.
2. Concussions. He’s had his share. The result is he’s lost that mental quickness that let him just see the open man under pressure. He’s surprised by blitzes, no longer hoping for one.
3. Shoulder damage. He’s lost that arm strength and flexibility that gave him the unbelievable range and accuracy of years past. Forget the 70 yard Hail Mary. Expect the kind of weakness we all saw in the Carolina game before he was shutdown for the remainder of the season
4. Footwork. He doesn’t practice it, and he no longer has the arm strength to make those effortless flicks without legwork.
5. He’s lost a step. He’s a lot closer to 40 than 25. That deceptive quickness outside the pocket can no longer buy him the time to make the sandlot plays as often as in the past.
6. He just needs some time to shake off the rust with no pre season play and to feel comfortable with the system.
7. He's protesting YA Tittle's "liking" all his comments.
Rodgers doesn't look like his old self yet, but he has way too much history to think he can't revert to form. If we're still waiting for him to return to form week 17, then maybe the injuries and age really have taken their toll. Still too early to tell though.
At 25, Rodgers was surrounded by a bunch of very talented and highly drafted receivers. At 35, he's surrounded by mostly late-round picks and undrafted free agents. This makes no sense.
I think it is way too early to start bed wetting on what is wrong or not wrong with AR. Give it a break for a second and enjoy it when it all comes together in the new system. It is way to early to start the gloom and doom.
I swear i never would have seen the day when Packers fans are so damn spoiled.
Boris posted:packerboi posted:. Meanwhile, he has a HC in McCarthy that can't adjust his scheme to the current talent he had and was running the same tired ass plays as he did in 2011. So much so that opposing DB's would tell GB's WR's that they knew the exact play they were going to run before they even broke the huddle.
Just WTF is Aaron supposed to do with that...
This.
The fact the QB basically went all schoolyard, without a defense or special teams and STILL got the team to .500 over that sample size is beyond remarkable. Think Tom Brady could've done that?
They were 6-9-1 last year. Let's stop 🍒 picking timelines & blaming the QB for an organizational failure that happened the last 3 years.
Rodgers is 1-0 with the new regime. Looking back at something you cannot change with a regime that was 3-5 years past their prime is Stoooooopid.
Amen to that. Too much is put on the AR the last couple of years such as their mediocre record as of late. I won't back down from the defense was horrendous, special teams were at or near the bottom of th league, and the offensive system was stale and very predictable.
Looking back at things is beyond stupid and it cannot be changed its time to stop beating that freaking dead horse and enjoy that for the first time in a few years this time could be special. Yes I said special.
Going "all schoolyard" may be because Rodgers doesn't trust his arm the way he did in the past. If he doesn't think he can squeeze throws into tight windows like he could in the past he would look for something a little less contested.
If he gets a stiffer defense he may be more willing to take that chance. For years now an interception has been a disaster that needed to be avoided since it essentially conceded points.
If he is experiencing reduced arm strength Rodgers will have to adjust his game. And the coordinator will have to adjust his.
What's wrong? To the Green Bay personnel braintrust a manatee's butt looks like a wide receiver.
The video from Fennell shows AR not taking two open and relatively easy throws on a Chicago blitz. That's indicative of an issue that's been present a while- AR inexplicably not taking what the defense is giving him, usually in search of a bigger play.
I do agree that it's one game under a new coach with a new offensive system and time to work out the kinks is required. AR himself acknowledged after the lackluster performance in Chicago that he needs to play better.
michiganjoe posted:The video from Fennell shows AR not taking two open and relatively easy throws on a Chicago blitz. That's indicative of an issue that's been present a while- AR inexplicably not taking what the defense is giving him, usually in search of a bigger play.
I do agree that it's one game under a new coach with a new offensive system and time to work out the kinks is required. AR himself acknowledged after the lackluster performance in Chicago that he needs to play better.
His style is markedly different from 2011 years and it's not just the personnel around him...it's a part of it, it's certainly easier to player QB with the 2011 crew than the 2018 crew. From 2009 to ~2014 he was putting on a clinic almost weekly on how to play smart, efficient football and utilize your skill players. Since then he's been so focused on, IMO, marrying that brilliant efficiency with Brett Favre's gunslinger style...he always wants the big play, but he's not going to be stupid with the ball. Unfortunately I think that has led to defenses trying to hammer him with pressure to take advantage of the long developing plays he favors. That's why he worked over Chicago and Min last year at the beginning of the year, he was playing 2011 ball and they weren't expecting or prepared for that. He can still be that QB again, even with MVS, Trevor Davis, Jake Kumerow, etc., but he has to learn to be satisfied with what he's being given.
Big plays are addictive and keep you coming back for more.
I don't think it's illogical, I think he knows what's going to develop based on his instinct and study, but what he wants to happen often takes too long to develop. That works against poor pass rushing teams, but the Bears are 5 deep on the DL with quality rushers, plus at least 2 quality rush LBs, so he really never got the opportunity to get what he wants. I think those throws that he shorted were throws that he was rushed on or expect his receiver to come back for. Some of them, like the MVS throw at the end, he put it where only MVS had a chance at it...either a catch or incomplete.
AR's still working his way out of a MM hangover. He changed his playing style over time to deal with MM's game plan (or lack thereof). There's no switch to simply flip and go back. It'll be a gradual process this year but I'm confident MLF will get him there. Be patient.
I fully expected the offense to struggle a bit to start off but I am concerned about what seems like diminished arm strength,
Packy posted:RELAX, we’re 1-0. Without AR playing preseason and a new head coach it may take awhile but the O will be there.
How about we ENJOY a victory over da bears. 4 months ago everyone hoped the defense could hold the fort while the offense got untracked. The defense was much better than I anticipated and I’m hopeful of them being the stabilizing force for the first quarter of the season. I’ll live with the growing pains of the offense. And Rodgers will only get better.
This doesn’t explain all of the throws, but on the long gains to MVS and to T. Davis, Rodgers was looking to the opposite side of the field and threw to the right at the last second. Both throws were off platform. The one to MVS hung a little bit, and the on to Davis was low. It’s almost a bit too clever. Rodgers arm strength is still elite. Mvs had position and Davis was wide open. May not be necessary to throw off platform if LaFleur’s concepts are getting guys open. Just step into it and throw it.
PA green & gold posted:Packy posted:RELAX, we’re 1-0. Without AR playing preseason and a new head coach it may take awhile but the O will be there.
How about we ENJOY a victory over da bears. 4 months ago everyone hoped the defense could hold the fort while the offense got untracked. The defense was much better than I anticipated and I’m hopeful of them being the stabilizing force for the first quarter of the season. I’ll live with the growing pains of the offense. And Rodgers will only get better.
Any win over the Bears no matter how beautiful or ugly it is I am good with it.
One important thing in your post is that it looks like the defense is going to be able to hold down the fort while the offense gets rolling. Honestly when was the last time we could say the Packers D could hold down anything?
I have been saying for a long time that Rodgers has to stop going all Superman all the time. He will extend his career until he's 45 if he takes what's given and avoids the beatdowns. Against the Bears, he held the ball again and got hit. If he takes those five-yarders, the chains move, he doesn't get hit, and he helps his OL. I hope MLF points it all out and demands that Rodgers play to take what's given. When Rodgers does that, he chews up yards and time. But he has to stay patient... This week will be a good test as MN has a very good defense.
Just watching Brady last night shows you how you can prolong your career. It's out and he doesn't get physically abused.
Pikes Peak posted:When is the preseason over?
End of September -- Not joking
Brady gets the ball out immediately because he has to. His 40 is about a full 60 seconds now. Rodgers needs to take note so he can extend his career. Of course it does help when defenders completely ignore guys like Edelman over the middle of the field.
Viking defense is not as good as Bears. They're good, but not THAT good. We've seen Rodgers tear them up before. Let's hope he gets on track in Lambeau.
Boris posted:Pikes Peak posted:When is the preseason over?
End of September -- Not joking
I hope you've hidden all of the sharp objects lying around X4. If you're correct, I'm afraid a few folks might harm themselves (assuming they haven't already given themselves ulcers).
Boris posted:Pikes Peak posted:When is the preseason over?
End of September -- Not joking
Brady gets the ball out immediately because he has to. His 40 is about a full 60 seconds now. Rodgers needs to take note so he can extend his career. Of course it does help when defenders completely ignore guys like Edelman over the middle of the field.
Viking defense is not as good as Bears. They're good, but not THAT good. We've seen Rodgers tear them up before. Let's hope he gets on track in Lambeau.
For **** sakes. Brady has had the best coaches and handlers forever. Rodgers has had MM and circus clowns.Why the **** is everyone wondering how we ended up having a bullshit conversation like this in 2019?
This thread is working the problem backwards. Don't shit your pants and wonder where you are. Fix your ****ing mess and stop shitting them.
If you're correct, I'm afraid a few folks might harm themselves (assuming they haven't already given themselves ulcers).
Or likes.
Rodgers could really help himself by doing a few very simple things:
- Stop running the damn play clock down to zero most plays. It allows the defense to pin it's ears back and go nuts right at the snap. Give yourself, and more importantly, your offensive line a freaking chance.
- Stop dancing around trying to buy time waiting for the big play to open up. Take what the defense gives you. Hit the playmakers with 5 yard passes and let them do their thing.
If he does those two things alone, I think we will see a marked improvement. If he keeps playing the same way, he is going to continue taking unnecessary hits that will no doubt shorten his season... and his career.
They could trade him for Taysom Hill.
Yes, some of the prior signs of a decline in his level of play were there on Thursday (e.g., not taking what the defense gives you), but I'm not willing to stick a fork in AR yet. It's a new system. Give it some time. I've always thought that it's going to take 4-6 weeks for the offense to get going in this new system and that the defense would have to win us some games. That certainly happened Week 1.
All early signs suggest that Rodgers enjoys working with MLF - they seem to have a good relationship. Give MLF and Rodgers some time to work through things together.
chickenboy posted:I fully expected the offense to struggle a bit to start off but I am concerned about what seems like diminished arm strength,
I have to admit a slight concern there as well watching that Hail Mary fall well short of the end zone. Maybe he just threw it too high and that's why he didn't get the distance he needed.
I thought that Hail Mary looked a lot like the one in Detroit to Rodgers. That one also fell a bit short of a typical Hail Mary but allowed a little space to catch the ball and fall into the EZ. It was a little shorter than the Detroit Hail Mary but it did give Graham a reasonable chance to catch the ball, which he didn't.
fightphoe93 posted:chickenboy posted:I fully expected the offense to struggle a bit to start off but I am concerned about what seems like diminished arm strength,
I have to admit a slight concern there as well watching that Hail Mary fall well short of the end zone. Maybe he just threw it too high and that's why he didn't get the distance he needed.
The bomb to MVS travelled something like 56 yards in the air. And even if Rodgers loses 10% of his arm strength, it will still be more than adequate to win with. Keeping Bakh healthy and having confidence in the OL are going to fix the biggest problems right now which are maybe a little too much happy feet in the pocket. This is probably the byproduct of several years of having guys like Spriggs, Justin McCray, Byron Bell, etc. playing and AR worrying about who is going to get overrun on the next dropback.
Columnists and talking heads are pointing out that Rodgers is about .500 as a starting QB since 2015. A lot has changed but what gets overlooked is that the line from 2009-2015 was mainly the following guys: Clifton/Bakh, Colledge/Lang, Wells/Linsley, Sitton, and Bulaga. He had to deal with an occasional guy like Newhouse, but for the most part he could focus on looking downfield rather than the pass rush.