Maybe Rodgers already is elevating their performance. If Jake Kumerow and Geronimo Allison are playing significant snaps then you have a depth problem. Neither would see the field (maybe the roster) for NE, NO, or LA. Same goes for MVS although I think he’s a guy you like as a #3/4 option that can stretch the field and put pressure on the Safety to open things up for your key players.
Pakrz posted:You really think the likes of MVS, Allison, Kumerow, etc. are THAT bad? I don't at all.
I'm with this. The entire offense is finding its feet, and people want to single out MVS, Allison and Kumerow as the reason. It's weird. And after having what many considered to be too many receivers all August, now suddenly every receiver except Adams sucks shit at football, or aren't even starting quality receivers. It's overboard.
Put any starting receiver from any other team out there the last 3 games, I don't see this offense doing much differently. The whole thing needs to get on track. Give them a chance hey.
"...in August."
Isn't that also when the vikes win their annual SB?
No....that's in April
FLPACKER posted:If Vitale would have gotten into the EZ, AR's passer rating would have been 107 instead of 96. Again, when was the last time anyone other than Adams made a "great" catch?
If we can count preseason then I'll nominate Trevor Davis and Whitewater Jesus. 
Pakrz posted:You really think the likes of MVS, Allison, Kumerow, etc. are THAT bad? I don't at all.
Me either.
I kind of remember when all you could read on this board was how terrible Adams was and he couldn't catch a pass his first couple years. Maybe these other young receivers need time also.
DH13 posted:"...in August."
Isn't that also when the vikes win their annual SB?
Except for Allison and MVS, it was based on their performance in regular season.
Or wait, that was when Rodgers must have elevated them or something. Got it.
People have wondered and commented about Rodgers decline. People have wondered and commented on the the lack of skill at receiver. I am beginning to wonder about the ability of MLF as playcaller. But I also know it’s way too early to throw him under the bus. But it’s the one thing that has not been mentioned yet.
I'm pretty sure the entire franchise is cursed because Lambeau is built on an indian burial ground. Or aliens. One of the two.
PackerPatrick posted:People have wondered and commented about Rodgers decline. People have wondered and commented on the the lack of skill at receiver. I am beginning to wonder about the ability of MLF as playcaller. But I also know it’s way too early to throw him under the bus. But it’s the one thing that has not been mentioned yet.
Or that NFL offenses have a lot of moving parts that require 11 players to be in synch, which is difficult at full speed and takes time (which you don’t get in pre-season any more because no one plays their starters then).
Which the whole world mentioned before the season started.
Henry posted:I'm pretty sure the entire franchise is cursed because Lambeau is built on an indian burial ground. Or aliens. One of the two.
It can't be both?
Actually some teams play their starters in preseason, of course not all games and not all plays but they do play.
But whatever, the preseason is over. The GOAT,( smertest guy in the room), MLF and the rest of the O should all be on the same page by now. This is football not rocket surgery.
Gsands posted:Pakrz posted:You really think the likes of MVS, Allison, Kumerow, etc. are THAT bad? I don't at all.
Me either.
I kind of remember when all you could read on this board was how terrible Adams was and he couldn't catch a pass his first couple years. Maybe these other young receivers need time also.
The big difference being that 17 flashed elite ability toward the end of his rookie season. Belichick credited MM using him in a way that ultimately beat NE in that game. And the next year he had a bad ankle all season which probably makes running routes (getting open) and catching the ball more difficult. He really just needed to get healthy and be more consistent. Not all WR's develop at the same pace but neither MVS nor Allison have flashed elite ability. They've shown they can sometimes get separation. MVS has more tools but we haven't seen yet whether he can come up big when called upon because Adams has been blanketed. Can't survive on long speed alone.
Pistol GB posted:Pakrz posted:You really think the likes of MVS, Allison, Kumerow, etc. are THAT bad? I don't at all.
I'm with this. The entire offense is finding its feet, and people want to single out MVS, Allison and Kumerow as the reason. It's weird. And after having what many considered to be too many receivers all August, now suddenly every receiver except Adams sucks shit at football, or aren't even starting quality receivers. It's overboard.
Agreed. Too much blame being pointed toward the WR group. Along with our HC and highly paid QB, taking time (and multiple regular season games) to settle in.
Interesting that some of the stuff we blamed on McCarthy are still prevalent in the current offense (thus far ): QB holding the ball too long, repeatedly snapping the ball with 0:00 on the play-clock, throwing the ball away instead of giving your receivers a shot at making a play, and still not using the middle of the field(see below).
Seems ripe for WR cross or drag routes.....and/or TE or RB patterns over the middle. Is Graham washed up ? Yup, but he's still capable of short post-up routes and we have other TE's that are capable. Or is this just another example of risk aversion ??
Oh that. AR is too short to see over the lineman in the middle of the field so he has to throw to the edges.
Pistol GB posted:I'm with this. The entire offense is finding its feet, and people want to single out MVS, Allison and Kumerow as the reason. It's weird. And after having what many considered to be too many receivers all August, now suddenly every receiver except Adams sucks shit at football, or aren't even starting quality receivers. It's overboard.
Put any starting receiver from any other team out there the last 3 games, I don't see this offense doing much differently. The whole thing needs to get on track. Give them a chance hey.
To be clear, I don't think MVS and GMO are THE problem with the offense and I don't think they suck. It's becoming evident though that these guys aren't getting open on a consistent basis like you want your starting WRs to. Kumerow isn't the answer either, it's not like he's a starting caliber guy that just hasn't been given a chance...he's a guy who is good at beating up other team's scrubs in preseason and would be an effective #4/5 option. He would get blanketed lining up against guys like Xavier Rhodes and Kyle Fuller though, just like GMO. MVS has potential to be good, but he's not winning consistently play to play. Problems at TE are another huge issue.
I think if you put 2016 Jordy and Cobb, that is to say starting caliber receivers, in this offense then it performs much better than it has thus far. Some of it is the defenses they've played, but a lot of it is a depth issue.
Agree with everything above except Kumerow. We just don't know how he'd do in a regular season game....
PackerPatrick posted:People have wondered and commented about Rodgers decline. People have wondered and commented on the the lack of skill at receiver. I am beginning to wonder about the ability of MLF as playcaller. But I also know it’s way too early to throw him under the bus. But it’s the one thing that has not been mentioned yet.
IF you look at it pragmatically, it doesn't point to MLF. The offense was crap last year. The constants from that time are the players, not the plays.
I haven't watched much All-22 this year but I did last year. The theme was that AR would hold the ball and pass up open WR's or checkdowns while staring down Adams or Graham. I'm assuming that's happening again and I also assume that Rodgers is risk tolerance has a lot to do with it. He is just not willing to pull the trigger on a lot of tight windows. When you have a top tier defense, that's actually a good thing. If / When we find ourselves in a situation where we need to score 30+ the hope is that he will adjust that risk level in game and make the appropriate throws.
Grave Digger posted:Kumerow isn't the answer either, it's not like he's a starting caliber guy that just hasn't been given a chance...he's a guy who is good at beating up other team's scrubs in preseason and would be an effective #4/5 option. He would get blanketed lining up against guys like Xavier Rhodes and Kyle Fuller though, just like GMO.
But why would he necessarily be matched up against a DB instead of a LB?
That's an interesting take. That AR is being ultra conservative because he knows the D has their back and all he has to do is make just enough plays and not turn the ball over. Although he didn't turn the ball over when he did have a high flying passing attack either. Then again the WR talent was much higher back then.
I guess we'll see if he changes his game when they need to score 30+. That might be in DAL.
Blair Kiel posted:Henry posted:I'm pretty sure the entire franchise is cursed because Lambeau is built on an indian burial ground. Or aliens. One of the two.
It can't be both?
Are you saying aliens appropriated cursed indian burial grounds?
Fandame posted:Who knows? Maybe the defender misses Graham and it's a first down. In any case, it has to be somewhat discouraging for his OL to block, hold your block, keep holding it... what? He didn't throw it?!! Not only that, but if the defense knows Rodgers is going to hold the ball for something downfield, every DL and LB can rush without fear of a short completion. As a DC playing against Rodgers, you can bring the house on every down and let that RB run free five yards past the LOS because you know he's not going to get the ball. Plus, by the end of the game the OL is worn down just when we might need them the most. It's a win-win if Rodgers mixes it up.
What we don't know about that play in the link is what protection was called. It might well be that Rodgers anticipated the blitz, had the right protection called and knew he would be able to hold the ball for a bit longer and make a big play.
Maybe the protection didn't play it right?
I don't know the answer but I know that these guys have a PhD in football and the rest of us think we know enough but really don't.
Timmy! posted:Grave Digger posted:Kumerow isn't the answer either, it's not like he's a starting caliber guy that just hasn't been given a chance...he's a guy who is good at beating up other team's scrubs in preseason and would be an effective #4/5 option. He would get blanketed lining up against guys like Xavier Rhodes and Kyle Fuller though, just like GMO.
But why would he necessarily be matched up against a DB instead of a LB?
Because other teams don't generally cover starting WRs with LBs.
Henry posted:Blair Kiel posted:Henry posted:I'm pretty sure the entire franchise is cursed because Lambeau is built on an indian burial ground. Or aliens. One of the two.
It can't be both?
Are you saying aliens appropriated cursed indian burial grounds?
No. The easy answer is the Indians were the aliens.
Grave Digger posted:Timmy! posted:Grave Digger posted:Kumerow isn't the answer either, it's not like he's a starting caliber guy that just hasn't been given a chance...he's a guy who is good at beating up other team's scrubs in preseason and would be an effective #4/5 option. He would get blanketed lining up against guys like Xavier Rhodes and Kyle Fuller though, just like GMO.
But why would he necessarily be matched up against a DB instead of a LB?
Because other teams don't generally cover starting WRs with LBs.
Slot receivers sometimes get covered by LBs
If a LB is covering your slot receiver man to man then you've been out maneuvered by the OC, and you're Dom Capers. LBs will cover short and flat routes in Zone, but there's no scheme that calls for a LB to trail a WR 1on1. If that happens it means you didn't read the O's personnel group and you didn't sub properly or your LB is a ding dong and doesn't know what he's doing. If you have more than 2 WRs on the field the defense is in Nickel and you're getting a Nickel CB covering the Slot.
Grave Digger posted:Timmy! posted:Grave Digger posted:Kumerow isn't the answer either, it's not like he's a starting caliber guy that just hasn't been given a chance...he's a guy who is good at beating up other team's scrubs in preseason and would be an effective #4/5 option. He would get blanketed lining up against guys like Xavier Rhodes and Kyle Fuller though, just like GMO.
But why would he necessarily be matched up against a DB instead of a LB?
Because other teams don't generally cover starting WRs with LBs.
Whoops, my bad. Don't know why I was thinking of him as a TE.
Well that begs the most popular question on X4...
BrainDed posted:PackerPatrick posted:People have wondered and commented about Rodgers decline. People have wondered and commented on the the lack of skill at receiver. I am beginning to wonder about the ability of MLF as playcaller. But I also know it’s way too early to throw him under the bus. But it’s the one thing that has not been mentioned yet.
IF you look at it pragmatically, it doesn't point to MLF. The offense was crap last year. The constants from that time are the players, not the plays.
I haven't watched much All-22 this year but I did last year. The theme was that AR would hold the ball and pass up open WR's or checkdowns while staring down Adams or Graham. I'm assuming that's happening again and I also assume that Rodgers is risk tolerance has a lot to do with it. He is just not willing to pull the trigger on a lot of tight windows. When you have a top tier defense, that's actually a good thing. If / When we find ourselves in a situation where we need to score 30+ the hope is that he will adjust that risk level in game and make the appropriate throws.
MLF has commented on his struggles to get the offense back in the game. He mentioned something about “ get back on track” plays that were not working. As mentioned, all 11 players need to be able to work in sync and that is not happening. Is it #12, is it MLF, or is it lack of skill with some of the players? Most people here have mentioned that lack of practice time may be at fault. One thing for sure, our offense is not a fine tuned machine. Right now it seems that the day our defense does not dominate is the day we lose that game.