Defense Appears Improved, What About AR?

Honestly, I'll tell you after the preseason.  I think Rodgers will be rejuvenated as well in a new system but everyone in the offense needs to be comfortable with the scheme not just Rodgers.  I'm sure there will be some (not a lot) growing pains but I think that's across the board.  Right now, question mark.

I think Packernation has seriously overvalued the wide receivers and running backs.  Adams is a top 10 receiver, but everyone else is a #3 or 4 at best on most teams.  

AR developed some bad habits in the last 2-3 years under MM because he was playing in a largely out dated and predictable scheme. He also watched a GM in TT who continued to ignore FA and do next to nothing on the offensive side of the football to improve or replace the players around AR. 

Look at comparison in the roster between his "hey day" and now. Long gone are WR's high round draft picks like Greg Jennings, James Jones, Jordy Nelson, and a younger/healthier Randall Cobb. Not to mention the last real TE GB had in JerMichael Finley. And in the very brief time he finally got a decent weapon in Jared Cook, TT let him walk at the end of that year. 

I am not making complete excuses for AR. There are mechanics and habits he's gotten into that most definitely need fixing. But what this writer and those like him who are criticizing AR's downturn in performance ignores the fact that Ted Thompson, since about 2014, had given AR next to nothing to work with in drafting a high round WR, TE, or RB. Then flat out ignored FA and gave him next to no help there either. Meanwhile, he has a HC in McCarthy that can't adjust his scheme to the current talent he had and was running the same tired ass plays as he did in 2011. So much so that opposing DB's would tell GB's WR's that they knew the exact play they were going to run before they even broke the huddle. 

Just WTF is Aaron supposed to do with that...

I certainly buy that personnel plays a role, just not sure of its extent. Doesn't really explain his erratic play and missing throws he routinely made earlier in his career. The apparent loss of accuracy is really puzzling.

MLF was really hired to get the QB back on track and hopefully he's successful.  Tend to believe the lackluster performance on Thursday was a combination of rust and a very good Chicago defense.

What got me was missing that wide open throw on the second down call after the INT by Amos. Simple pitch and catch, gets us a first down and pretty much ends the game. Errant throw. That was troubling.

packerboi posted:

. Meanwhile, he has a HC in McCarthy that can't adjust his scheme to the current talent he had and was running the same tired ass plays as he did in 2011. So much so that opposing DB's would tell GB's WR's that they knew the exact play they were going to run before they even broke the huddle. 

Just WTF is Aaron supposed to do with that...

This.

The fact the QB basically went all schoolyard, without a defense or special teams and STILL got the team to .500 over that sample size is beyond remarkable. Think Tom Brady could've done that?

They were 6-9-1 last year. Let's stop 🍒 picking timelines & blaming the QB for an organizational failure that happened the last 3 years.

Rodgers is 1-0 with the new regime. Looking back at something you cannot change with a regime that was 3-5 years past their prime is Stoooooopid.

I suspect he will be just fine, and I hope that will suffice.

Missed throws, holding onto the ball too long, having to take timeouts (or penalties) because he can’t get the play off in time, no commitment to the run....looked like the same tired offense that everybody has been complaining about over the last several seasons. 

It’s a new offense with a new HC and they played a strong Bears defense. It’s not surprising that the offense struggled. What was surprising was that they haven’t corrected any of the mistakes from last season.  

One game in and Angry Bald Man is the MVP. That’s a refreshing change and it was fun to watch. Now it’s time for 12 to start earning his paychecks. 

Honestly, last year was his only really bad year.  He was on pace for 42 TD's before he broke his collarbone, and the year before that he led the league with 40 TD's.

Last year he was hobbling around with a gimpy leg and MM's anemic play calling.

Even Favre had a horrible 4-12 season under Sherman before MM was hired and then he went 13-3.

Let the season play out and see what happens.

michiganjoe posted:

I certainly buy that personnel plays a role, just not sure of its extent. Doesn't really explain his erratic play and missing throws he routinely made earlier in his career. The apparent loss of accuracy is really puzzling.

MLF was really hired to get the QB back on track and hopefully he's successful.  Tend to believe the lackluster performance on Thursday was a combination of rust and a very good Chicago defense.

 

Personnel plays a huge role. The Packers have one receiver who could start for the majority of teams in the NFL.

For many years opposing teams have stated and shown that the plan to defeat Aaron Rodgers is to plaster his receivers and keep him in the pocket. It has often worked. His response was to look for coverage weakness presnap and to extend the play. Often it worked, but often it did not. I agree with those who said that we need high quality receivers that can get open. That requires a higher draft pick. But to do that can also mean lower quality players in other areas. The team has been investing in defense for some time now. This has probably led to some bad habits from Aaron and the team. Scheme can only do so much. The rest is on the players. It’s no wonder that Rodgers loves Adams. He is, right now, the only receiver who can regularly get open on his own. As the others improve so will Rodgers. He needs quality reps with them in order to get the timing down and the offensive line needs quality reps to get the run game going. When the above happens I expect to see the Rodgers of old. Down the road I hope the team picks up some better receivers.

It's no secret that Rodgers' success depend on the performance of the OL.
A lot of the 'sandlot' plays are/were a direct result of every pass being a jailbreak, and he's forced to scramble almost as soon as he gets the snap.

It's been (too) many years since I've felt that we're on the cusp of finally having a solid OL, but I think this year might be the one. They've still have to be better before they can consistently handle the 'elite' front 7's like the Bears and Vikes.

In any case, if these guys can gel, and give the plays the chance to work as designed, I'll bet all the "what's wrong with Rodgers?" will go away.

Coach up the line, that is the key.  A good line makes everyone better. More holes for the backs, more time for the receivers to get open, less hits on a quickly aging QB, lesstime that the D has to spend on the field, shorter field goal attempts, less need for the punter to flip the field.

Blocking and tackling still win games.

AR has not looked the same since the broken collar bone. This guy is the most accurate passer in the history of the game but he just does not look right. Some of his passes (especially the quick releases down the line) are so off it makes me think something is wrong. The last pass was horrible, the pass to Graham that bounced off his foot, and the pass to the left to Lewis (i think) were so off that it looks like something is wrong. The pass long to MVS on Thursday was not great and almost gave the defensive back a  chance to catch up. If he leads him, it is a touchdown. The hail mary before the half did not have the juice on to get to teh end zone. Maybe it is the age, maybe it is the injury but something is off with him. 

Good to see the AR excuse-o-meter is still working.

Jesus ****ing Christ.  Get over your McVince boner already.

For all we know maybe Rodgers is completely washed up but we won't know until we see more games. 

Happy?

They could release Rodgers tomorrow and 25 teams would line up and have him start for their teams.  

The guy didn’t practice and play much and went up against a top 5 defense.  Are we going to rip Bahktari as well? 

All things considered, I am content.

Hot dog!  Good to hear.

Well, except regarding the Illinois toll way and a failed I-Pass type phone app.  I won't bore anyone with the details, but **** them so hard and so much.

AR excuse-o-meter?

Tom Brady himself said if Rodgers played in this system (Patriots) he'd throw for 7,000 yards.

That sounds like a fellow competitor understands how good Rodgers really is.

I think a QB -- even a HOF'r -- that hasn't played a snap in the pre-season, still needs some live game action to prepare. He admitted himself in post-game interview that "I missed some throws." Certainly the one late in the 4th on 2nd down. He has to execute that play better & he knows it. 

I'm not expecting Rodgers to be "regular season Rodgers" until the end of September (Week 3 or 4)

At the end of the day, it's still a team sport. The QB gets too much credit when they win & too much blame when they lose. Goes with the territory of playing the position.

There are probably lots of reasons his play isn't what we've grown accustomed to.  I get it.  I just find it very hard to believe that a quarterback of his intelligence has "developed bad habits" at this point in his career.

Last year in discussing the D, I believe Packerboi was preaching a two-phase, two-year process under ABM's new system. It's looking like that was spot on (well done PB). That same patient approach makes sense now with the offense. Though, I expect by mid-season they'll be showing signs of what we can hope to see regularly. 

Plus, Gute can finally start focusing a little more on offense in the next draft.

He threw for 200 yards & a score against probably the best defense in the league with zero live game action practice, while directing a new offensive system.

Not sure what people were expecting but a 38-35 game wasn't ever going to happen.

I'm only happy when it rains.

3 home games in a row is just what is needed to get the new offense going in the right direction. Assuming the locals manage to be quiet while the offense is at work and the Spermheads don't make up more than 15-20% of the crowd next week. 

I will take Rodgers at QB with a damaged arm over any other QB in teh league. I am just saying his passes dont look the same. His accuracy last year was not great.Hopefully by mid-season he finds it. And in the meantime, if someone can go Charles Martin on Anthony Barrs knee as payback then that would be sweet karma. 

MM, TT, personnel, injuries... blah, blah, ****ing blah. 

AR hasn't been great for a few years now.  He needs to play better.  If he does, and the defense is as good as we think it is, GB is going places.  

Dr._Bob posted:

I'm only happy when it rains.

Queer

Rude or incredibly thoughtful.  Of course Dr. Bob's gender may be vegetable today, I don't know.

I had thought Rodgers bad habits would go away once MM left but it looked just like last year - Rodgers hiking the ball with :00 on the play clock, dancing around for awhile trying to find the big play, and going down with a sack or throwing it away.  All this leads to a complete lack of rhythm.  Maybe it is all just the Bears defense but I'm less optimistic than I was in the offseason that this offense's issues were 100% on MM. 

Henry posted:

Rude or incredibly thoughtful.  Of course Dr. Bob's gender may be vegetable today, I don't know.

I identify as an attack helicopter.

Don't try me.

It took most Packer fans several years to realize TT wasn't as good as he once was. 

It took most Packer fans several years to realize MM wasn't as good as he once was.

My guess is we'll see the same trend with Rodgers.  I'm not saying we're there yet, but I do think the Packers need to start paying attention to his performance over the past few seasons and plan accordingly.  We can talk about coaching, personnel, etc. all we want.  However, when he is missing open receivers and throwing balls at the feet of a guy, that's pretty damn concerning. 

Pakrz posted:

It took most Packer fans several years to realize TT wasn't as good as he once was. 

It took most Packer fans several years to realize MM wasn't as good as he once was.

My guess is we'll see the same trend with Rodgers.  I'm not saying we're there yet, but I do think the Packers need to start paying attention to his performance over the past few seasons and plan accordingly.  We can talk about coaching, personnel, etc. all we want.  However, when he is missing open receivers and throwing balls at the feet of a guy, that's pretty damn concerning. 

If you don't see the trickle down results of you're own points regarding Rodgers then I don't know what to tell you. You've made a great argument why Rodgers might fail. Garbage in Garbage out. 

This entire thread is trash. I'm glad Rodgers is a Packer. 

I think we're all happy Rodgers is a Packer.  He's an excellent quarterback.  I think he could be better. 

I'm flying blind here at my sons baseball tournament in the middle of nowhere in Modesto CA after his Football game Friday night four hours north of here. But wasn't  the highest Packers draft pick on offense the last 7 years Jason Spriggs? 

I mean, what would you think if you're the best QB in Football? 

Blair Kiel posted:

Henry posted:

Rude or incredibly thoughtful.  Of course Dr. Bob's gender may be vegetable today, I don't know.

I identify as an attack helicopter.

Don't try me.

Which restroom do you use?

Mike McCarthy is getting a job a day after he's released. That's what everyone said. 

Cobb is tearing shit up in Dallas. 

Mike isn't ever getting a HC job again and Rodgers has to unlearn years of playground bullshit. 

Again. This thread is pure trash. 

ChilliJon posted:

I'm flying blind here at my sons baseball tournament in the middle of nowhere in Modesto CA after his Football game Friday night four hours north of here. But wasn't  the highest Packers draft pick on offense the last 7 years Jason Spriggs? 

I mean, what would you think if you're the best QB in Football? 

Personnel has nothing to do with Rodgers missing open receivers, throwing behind them and tossing short passes at their feet.  I don't know if it's mechanics or something else, but he needs to be better.  

Right now, Rodgers is good... not great. He needs to be great. 

If you haven't yet, read the article.  

Will Cobb last the season? History says no.

Dalton throwing quick accurate passes 

RELAX, we’re 1-0.   Without AR playing preseason and a new head coach it may take awhile but the O will be there.

vitaflo posted:

Last year he was hobbling around with a gimpy leg and MM's anemic play calling.

Even Favre had a horrible 4-12 season under Sherman before MM was hired and then he went 13-3.

And in both instances the biggest factor was a roster that TT turned to shit, one intentional, one not. 

Link

That's not personnel- it's a clear deterioration in play from earlier in his career. Fennell asks the relevant question:

Where did that QB go?

michiganjoe posted:

Link

That's not personnel- it's a clear deterioration in play from earlier in his career. Fennell asks the relevant question:

Where did that QB go?

Love this quote: “You don’t get older and hold the ball longer. That’s not how this works.” That’s a perfect characterization of 12’s issues. If he wants Brady’s longevity, he’s got to change now. Fall in love with the quick slant again. It’s always been magical."

Here are several hypotheses about ARod’s apparent decline in passing. 

1. He’s suffering shell shock. When the OL starts to collapse he locks up. He doesn’t dance like he used to. He freezes. He doesn’t really see the open receiver he is looking at. If he’s looking at all, he’s looking to run or fold. And the guard play has not been reliable like it was in the glory years. 

2. Concussions. He’s had his share. The result is he’s lost that mental quickness that let him just see the open man under pressure. He’s surprised by blitzes, no longer hoping for one.

3. Shoulder damage.  He’s lost that arm strength and flexibility that gave him the unbelievable range and accuracy of years past. Forget the 70 yard Hail Mary.  Expect the kind of weakness we all saw in the Carolina game before he was shutdown for the remainder of the season  

4. Footwork. He doesn’t practice it, and he no longer has the arm strength to make those effortless flicks without legwork. 

5. He’s lost a step. He’s a lot closer to 40 than 25. That deceptive quickness outside the pocket can no longer buy him the time to make the sandlot plays as often as in the past. 

6. He just needs some time to shake off the rust with no pre season play and to feel comfortable with the system. 

7. He's protesting YA Tittle's "liking" all his comments.