Defensive "Accountability?"

Quite simply, it is an across the board organizational failure.  Just is.

The defense is terrible against good teams.  There is NO consistent outside contain on running plays and when the ball carrier gets around the edge, the ILBs are too slow to catch up - therefore, you have DBs making tackles 8-10 yards downfield.  The middle of the defense is extremely soft and slow to react.  Burnett plays the deepest centerfield I have ever seen, which is why he provides to little in run support.  The last two points also indicate why the middle of the Packers' defense has been so open for the last 4-5 years to get torched by possession WRs like Anquan Boldin and TEs like Jason Witten.

 

The defense only looks semi-competant against poor oppoents or against teams that are playing from behind where their play calling is predictable and more likely to be passing the ball vs. the Packers' best part of the defense - DBs.

 

I'm really beginning to think that Capers just isn't on the same page as guys like Trgovac and Moss.  Capers has an extremely complicated scheme and I just don't think his assistants have been able to translate his schemes into basic fundamentals of the game.  Hell, I saw Julius Peppers get completely turned around while a running play EASILY went around him.  Peppers is one of the game's best DEs for the past 10 years and even he showed less discipline than a high school player.

Koopla, while I agree with everything you just said about the defense, what I cannot for the life of me understand is why is no one ever seems to be held accountable for the poor play that occurs over and over again?

 

The same players and coaches seem to keep their jobs no matter what. 

 

My question is why?

 

 

I can't go complete organizational failure. Some mistakes were compounded by stubbornness that led to glaring weaknesses. The Raiders are an organizational failure. So are the Jaguars. You can back into a division title like last year once in a while but you don't qualify for the playoffs 5 straight years in todays NFL if you're an organizational failure.

 

Everything SL mentions is correct. I believe GB has reached the spot they have today because some really smart people felt they couldn't be wrong about the number of players they were wrong about. Then fiercely defended them longer than they should have.

 

I'm kind of done bitching and moaning about everything that hasn't been done to improve the defense. GB is where they are and that's the damn fact of the matter.

 

What do they do now? I do not believe MM is foolish enough to think the defensive starters he put on the field Thursday night are his best 11. He cant. He just cant. So what is he going to do now? How much heat does he put on his defensive coaches now?

 

You don't lose to SF and Seattle a combined 6 straight times and tell the media now's not the time to make crazy changes. If now's not the time then when is?

 

**** I hate the way Thursday went down. But as bad is went down if there's any silver lining it put a great big glaring spotlight on where this team actually is. Don't need to turnover the roster. There are players here that can make plays. Time to let them.

My question is why these mediocre players have not been replaced.....seems plenty of thought and draft choices have gone into upgrades but few if any have panned out.  Who scouted and drafted Sherrod, Datone Jones, Nick Perry, and others.  I know the Pack traditionally picks late and their choices are somewhat limited but the fact is SO FAR these guys are busts compared to where they were picked. 

You have mediocre to bad talent in the positions coupled with mad schemers in the box, drizzled with ineffective position coaches and players who don't arise the challenge.  

 

Sounds pretty across the board to me.

If Mike digs in and trots out the same defensive 11 running the same schemes after Thursday then I agree the problem is much deeper than draft picks that didn't work. I refuse to believe he's going that route though.

I have always heard the pecking order in sports goes like this:

Owner or in this case Murphy

 

GM  TT

Face of the franchise player 

 

Head coach  MM

 

Super star players CMIII, Lacy,Jordy, etc.

 

Coordinators  Capers

 

Starter players

 

Position coaches

 

Rest of roster

 

It seems to me TT and MM can't decide if the starter players are responsible of if it is the position coaches so nobody is replaced unless they leave on their own.  Maybe that is why Macadoo and Greene left.  They were upset that the starter players were not held accountable so they moved on, one to the Giants and one unemployed.  Maybe this will finally change if the season continues as it did last Thursday.  

We have the D guru of all time up there, MM has PLENTY on his plate with the undermanned and underwhelming O.  The D is not the only problem, all 3 facets have oceans of room for improvement.

Our best chance is Pennel. He is the only guy that has any chance of being the savior of the middle of the defense. One guy can make all the difference. 

 

Yes, it's prolly unlikely but I would rather stay optimistic until absolutely all of our options are played out.

 

He's young, he's big, he's apparently pretty quick and can move. I've heard he's kind of bad ass, at least we have that. 

 

If he isn't miraculously good right out of the box, we are kind of screwed, but you never know.

 

I'll take one chance in hell, over giving up just yet.

McAdoo is one of MM's boys. He left because becoming OC is a promotion, he doubtless wants to be a head coach someday.

Not across the board: 3 extremely weak links: 1 nose tackle and 2 inside linebackers, plus mediocre safety play.  Why? Because Ted wanted other players on draft day.  Judging by MM's reaction to the question about Jones, it makes you wonder if Mike isn't frustrated by the failure to draft an inside linebacker himself.  It's not coaching, it is lack of players at 3 important spots.

Well, before the draft, how many of us were screaming S, ILB and more ILB and more S and S and ILB?

 

Man, we grabbed a veritable STABLE of ILB's, didn't we?

 

On that count, we deserve what we went after - NOTHING!!!

Who are the ILB's that were available and would they definitely have made an impact this year?

These are changes I'd make immediately:

 

Activate Pennel and put him in the game-long D-line rotation.

Don't play Daniels so much. He is an impact guy when rested, especially on passing downs. 

Start Barrington in place of Jones. If not him then Lattimore. Jones shouldn't see the field except for STs.

On passing downs play Sean Richardson at one of the ILB positions.

Don't burn out Peppers. Get Perry more snaps especially on running downs.

More Ha Ha each week. Bench Burnett soon if he doesn't show marked improvement.

 

After CJ Mosley, the options in the 2014 draft for ILB consisted of guys like Borland, Brown, Smith, Fortt, Jackson... not really a who's who of NCAA ILBers.

 

 

@cuqui

This is exactly what GB should do starting next week. Nothing here is "making crazy changes"

 

It is time.

 

Difference is we know what the offense can do and will likely do for the rest of the season even with Sherrod in the lineup.

Agree with H5. ILB was razor thin on talent for 2014 after CJ. Borland would have been value at the bottom end of the 3rd but SF was without Bowman and probably knew GB would grab him. 2015 draft is pretty deep for ILB. Good players will be available at the bottom 3rd of round 1.

Another reason to make defensive changes ASAP. Last time I looked the Jets were offensively challenged. What better time to make a series of changes to our D and get them needed PT, especially the youngsters. Don't be lulled into playing the same old problem children and then being satisfied with any modicum of success against Geno and company. The road to retooling defensive personnel should be taken sooner not later.

That sounds like a plan and if Hawk is in there, just tell him he is trying to tackle a dude on the golf course.

Bradford should be on a crash course. Why he wasn't put in the middle first day of training camp is still a mystery. He's a tough guy who can attack and hit. Neither Lattimore or Barrington are particularly fast so using Richardson as was suggested is a good idea. That kid can hit too. Need hitters. Also, Elliot, who was the sensation of preseason, should be given a little playing time so we know what we've got. Not like Perry or Neal are the answer. And Pennel should be the new starter until he plays himself out. We  get excited about new guys and they don't see the field because what?... they might make mistakes? Let'em. Speed up the learning curve of the more talented guys. Bishop sat on the bench too long. McCarthy should have learned his lesson but he hasn't.

The infamous Bishop. Cut by many teams but still a legend in Green Bay.

 

no one ever seems to be held accountable for the poor play that occurs over and over again?

 

 

OMGosh, this is exactly what I think about our elections...... poor performance by our elected officials and they just keep getting elected over, and over.  THROW THE BUMS OUT.   JMHO.     

There is no accountability, particularly on defense, with this team when you consistently suck.

 

From Brad Jones to AJ Hawk to MD Jennings to BJ Raji (2012-2013 versions) to going back to guys like Brandon Chillar. These guys could just suck week in and out and know their jobs were not only safe on the roster but also had zero to worry about losing their starting roles unless they go hurt. 

 

When you lack accountability, you send a message to players that your performance doesn't matter all that much. This administration will keep sticking with you week in and out. Really, it's a great gig for the players mentioned above.

 

MM is well known to be loyal to a fault. Ya, it worked with Mason Crosby. And ya, he was the exception not the rule. It's well rumored before firing Bob Sanders that MM was told he had no choice, he had to go. It was just "spun" that MM preferred going to a 3-4 to save face for Bob.

 

It's a long season ahead. I suspect GB will look a hell of a lot better against the Jets. And they will win >10 games and they will be positioned again to take the NFC North. But whether they can truly play with the big kids like the Hags, Saints, 9er's remains to be seen.

 

Perhaps the light does go on and we see hungrier, more athletic players replacing the rubes that have been mentioned in this thread. Am I holding my breath? Well history with MM and Capers tells me not to. So no...Im not.

 

 

Thanks for all the responses.

 

I agree with virtually everything that has been said about the D, but I remain confused why there has been no accountability other than what appears to be a culture of complacency.

Yes, it really sucks to make the playoffs every year. It limits you from getting the hyped draft choices. You have to draft guys you think will fit in what you do or you can coach them to fit in what you do. Do you just **** can a head coach that won you a Super Bowl? The only thing I can think of is maybe he is just too much of a "players" coach and doesn't kick their ass enough. The offense generally works well with the exception of Thursday nights crap game plan.  They need to come up with the right 11 players on defense. If that means going to a 4-3 base, then they should do it. With the current guys they have, a 4-3 would probably be better and then they can quit with all the "exotic" crap. At least what is in their minds "exotic".

There's simply more to it that that.  The MLB's in Green Bay have sucked for several years now.... For that matter, so have the S's.  TT finally pulled his head out of his ass and brought in HCD.  For Christ sakes, take a look at the S's we had last season.  Doc Jennings and McMilian?  Are you ****ting me?

 

Three starters on defense up the middle are a significant problem.  Hawk, Jones and Burnett.  All three of them do absolutely nothing on the football field.  To make matters worse, even after seeing their substandard play, TT resigns all three of them to fat contracts.  

 

I agree with Hank... it's an across-the-board organizational failure.  From TT to MM to Capers to the position coaches.  GB's defense didn't just begin to suck overnight.  It's been a long process to get to this point.  

 

I'm not going to sit here like an idiot and call for people to be fired.... but, it's about time this defensive problem gets fixed up in Green Bay because nothing changes year after year.  

There's a lot of "stay the course" don't panic, which I agree with to a point. However after 3 years of the same effing bull****. I'm done. A change needs to be made. NOW!!

This is the only part of you post I disagree with.  It's doesn't "remain to be seen"....  It's been proven we can't play with those guys time and time again.  Does anybody really think if GB lined up against SF any time soon the results would be different?  

 

I fully expect GB to rebound, probably win the division and for sure make the playoffs.  I envision winning in the first round but when we start running in to the elite NFC teams, the results will be the same.  

This is one of the things that bothers me the most.  There is always this "boiler plate" of UDFA's at ILB or safety or Oline with "potential" that rarely pan out.  Then there's guys like Joe Whitt who take scrubs and turn them into studs at one of the hardest positions in football.  MM has some serious blind spots when it comes to his position coaches.  Moss has developed jack squat diddly.  At least Campen is getting basic fundamentals implemented.  OLB has the same thing but you still see flashes, production in some form.  DL I firmly put at TT's feet.  Trgovac is solid and when the talent is there he usually gets the most out of it.  And as far as overall scheme, Capers is just out of touch with what he has on the field.  Mad scientist crap with poor talent and no coaches getting the most from these guys.  The whole thing is a damn dinosaur.  

 

Make Whitt the damn DC. 

Which is why big D changes need to be made now. Quit fielding the deadweight guys who over a number of seasons have shown how low their ceiling is and inject the largely untested new blood. What do they have to lose?

Yes. They need to let some of the young guys play but then they also need to go to a somewhat standard defensive scheme. They really don't have the lineman to play a 3-4.

My expectations for this season:  watch the Packers roll fairly well through the regular season and hope they catch some kind of hot streak to carry them a couple games into the playoffs.  

 

What's worse is we heard all the talk about intentionally going smaller on the DL.  Faster, quicker, etc.  GB is small up front by design and got steamrolled in week 1 because of it.

 

Let's not put all this on the loss of Raji either.  I believe his loss stings, but we aren't talking about some stud football player here.  

Absolutely spot on.  Whitt has been doing an outstanding job.  Winston Moss hasn't done anything... I mean, nothing.  

I'll be shocked if any personnel changes are made.  MM has at least two more weeks of we'll get that cleaned up before that thought even crosses his mind.  If they start winning, they'll try to keep on keeping on.   One thing that jumped out at me from MM's last presser:

 

It's one game...We have a big commitment to continue to do the things that our players do best.  That's what coaching is.     

 

Their thinking is it's one game, stay the course, and improve from practicing what they screwed up.   Changing players would (a) admit they were wrong in their planning and (b) be hitting the panic button in their eyes. 

 

I think we all have the realization of the talent gap right now.  Brad Jones might end up being Joe Johnson decision bad. 

 

The biggest issue to me is they didn't challenge either starting ILB to earn their job in TC.  They should have dangled that carrot in training camp and seen if Lattimore or Barrington could elevate their play for the opportunity.