Desmond Bishop/AJ Hawk vs Nick Barnett/Brandon Chillar

Restructure Hawk, resign Bishop, and draft an ILB or two next year.

Trade/cut Barnett and Chillars.

Draft ILB or use current players like Walden for depth.

Bishop is one hell of a player

Casey Matthews is available this year.

the contract given to chillar is still a head scratcher.

have to believe that it will go down like this. if hawk restructures then barnett is as good as gone. bishop is then resigned. ILB will be drafted somewhere.

Hawk won't be paid 10 mil. We know this and hopefully AJ knows that as well. The big question is how far down does TT go to make his contract reasonable yet keep AJ happy?

As for Barnett, between he and Chillar, I'd sooner see Chillar dumped and keep Barnett. But all you have to do is look at Al Harris when it comes to retaining vets. TT is all about going younger...and cheaper...when he can.

Barnett indeed may have played his last game as a Packer.

Kind of off topic, but was anyone else a little impressed by Robert Francois at OLB? He's a guy we definitely need to keep as depth in my opinion.

any dude named franswah has to be tough

Earlier in the year there was talk that Hawk would not take a pay cut. Don't know if that has changed, but he has stepped up this year. Love to keep him at the right price, but if he wants his money let him go.

Chillar never impressed me. He is supposed to be versatile and able to cover receivers, but the little bit I watched him this year he was chasing receivers 10 yards downfield. Bye!

I've always been a fan of Bishop. He was always around the ball even though he'd have a mental lapse and blow coverage occasionally. I always thought at some point this guy is going to get it and the game will slow down for him. I think he has arrived. Sign him TT!

I'm not sure about Barnett. Team leader and good player, but too often he missed the tackle or overpursued when he had to make a play. I don't miss him in the lineup.

FWIW, keep Bishop and Barnett. More important to me is finding a Matthews clone for the other side!

I prefer the starters to be Bishop and Hawk. TT will get it done to keep them both. I dont think Barnett will react well to being a backup although it would be nice to have him as one.

Chillar has not shown much in games and I am assuming he practices well thats why he got extended.If GB goes with Bishop and Hawk then Wilhiem may be a option for a backup and GB will have to get some more guys to compete via draft or udfa types.

Francois did an OK job this week as he was not seen chasing a Giant into the endzone. He could be a valuble backup because he plays both OLB and ILB.

Barnett is still their best ILB. He offers a combination of leadership, speed, toughness and coverage ability none of the others can match. Capers has modified the linebackers' roles some with the injury situation and Bishop chases the QB more because they don't want him in coverage much. Hawk also gets to sit underneath a lot.

They also seem to be getting gashed by TEs more often underneath.

And it's not just the linebackers who have had to change their roles some, look at the safeties. Collins isn't making as many plays either. Why? Is he really struggling now? I don't think so. And Burnett/Peprah? Bigby certainly wasn't worth much in coverage. Could it be he has to stay in deeper coverage, etc. and doesn't get to be as versatile because they don't have a linebacker who can drop like Barnett or Chillar. Collins has a history of being good at getting turnovers when he has a chance to make plays. Is neutralizing Collins' playmaking ability "worth it" to have Bishop and Hawk as the primary linebackers? And both are essentially in contract years. What happens when they aren't?

Capers has done a masterfull job this year of modifying the defense to deal with the injuries but they started the season with their alignments for a reason.

An abundance of good LBers is a nice problem to have. Bishop is a keeper for sure. TT will find a way to restructure Hawk's contract... he ain't going anywhere. I can see Chillar and/or Barnett hitting the bricks. Barnett is a fine player, but the combination of Bishop/Hawk in the middle is impressive.

Gotta get an OLB opposite CMIII.

The thing I see is that they're more physical. Bishop is a more powerful player than Barnett. He packs a wallop, and has real pass-rush ability. Barnett is blockable, all he has his his speed. He's a goo player, but I think the Packers found a better system guy in Bishop.

Chillar still has his uses because he can play everywhere but rush end.

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Barnett is still their best ILB. He offers a combination of leadership, speed, toughness and coverage ability none of the others can match.

Barnett will be 30 next year and has been IRed two out of the last three seasons. Again, a fine player but I'd take Bishop over him. Bishop seems to be much more aggressive.

This could be one of the most interesting offseasons for the Packers. All the LB positions will be 'worked over'; there's a lot of competition there. Even our "street" FA's are playing well.
I do hope Hawk is able to stay, but I don't think TT would be afraid to let him go if he gets other offers.
Barnett would seem to be in a similar position, but his speed, experience, and performance might give him an edge.
Guys like Poppi and Chilly may have been passed on the depth chart, or possibly even expendable. I think their contracts may have some influence in a roster decision, but not to any great extent.
And who knows what were going to have with Jones next year? We remember his 'flash' last year, but he produced next to nothing this year. He is another who may be injury-prone, but I would like to see him stay healthy and show what he can do. If he has anything, he could easily win his starting position back.

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Originally posted by Grave Digger:
Kind of off topic, but was anyone else a little impressed by Robert Francois at OLB? He's a guy we definitely need to keep as depth in my opinion.

I think he is big and strong, and has upside. But...he was about the last LB brought up from the PS and they signed Walden, Wilhelm, and Briggs; they all started in front of him. That gives me pause for thought, but there's no info coming from the Green Bay media, or team for that matter, concerning his growth, performance, etc.
If he can develop, I think he'll be a headknocker!

Excellent post, Hersch!
It's my opinion that Collins has been playing hurt for much, if not all, of this season. I agree totally with your comments about Capers modifying the defense, but I also think Collins' injuries were a factor into his decisions.
Ditto for Woodson. I don't think his injuries have been as severe as Collins, but they both are sacrificing personal opportunities for the team.

Also, the modifications/adjustments Capers have made have been successful beyond belief and I think it may influence his entire scheme. It would be tough to scrap the things that have produced the results they have; scoring defense would lead this list. I'm also impressed that it has allowed a "plug-n-play" capability; guys not even playing football a month ago are holding their own against some very good offenses.

Chillar hasn't been able to stay healthy, but his value is that he can play all of the LB positions and he's a good cover guy and he can blitz. The shame of Barnett's injury is that he was playing probably the best football of his career when it happened.

Bishop has been pretty good and Hawk has played better but the only question with both of those guys is that is it more of a contract related thing or can you expect more of the same next year (and future years)?

Then you have guys like Zombo and Jones- good football players- but what they need is another rush guy like CMIII.

There are a lot of good options for next year but I do think they need to consider extending Bishop. If that happens either Barnett or Hawk are probably gone. Chillar stays because of his versatility.

Gotta find a way to keep Bishop. He brings a much-needed physicality to the defense that really hasn't been there since Wayne Simmons.

Boy I just did not see it with Barnett this year. I thought he looked slow from sideline to sideline which was his strength in the past. I think he's done personally.

I don't think he's done, I just think at this point he's had a pretty tough recent injury history, he's moving towards 30 and he's expensive. I also think at this point in his career he'd be a better fit in a 4-3 based on how he plays. That doesn't mean I want him gone - I'd hope that if we all learned anything this year, it's that you can't have enough good players. Try to keep as many as you possibly can, as odds are you'll need them at some point. Obviously whatever cap is put in place will be a factor as will his contract along with Hawk's and whatever money is invested in Bishop, but if it works financially then make it happen and keep these guys around.

Would like to see Zombo spend time in GB working on strength and quickness. He is playing a stand up LB for the first time with good results. CMIII needs to send his trainer and dietician over.

How much did we spend on Poppinga last year? IMO I don't see him coming back.

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Barnett is still their best ILB

I can't say that. Bishop is what I've been looking for at ILB for years - a force. Barnett wrestles guys down over several yards and is easily blocked. Bishop stops people and finishes them - and gets home a lot more frequently when he blitzes compared to Barnett. Whether that's because of some scheme change by Dom or whatever, all I know is guys are having a hard time running between the tackles.

Chillar is done for me. Appears to have almost chronic problems with both shoulders. That doesn't work when playing LB. He's got great heart and range but his body can't deliver.

Hawk - keep him if you can at a lower wage.

I believe Bishop has surpassed Barnett on this team. When Bishop tackles a RB, they go backwards. I don't remember seeing that type of strength and force from barnett.

Bishop, 2nd best LB'er in the league. Behind who? I have no idea.

The highlight for me is the pick for a score versus POSTOG. He has some big hits. The one of Goodhead was sweet.

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Bishop has been pretty good and Hawk has played better but the only question with both of those guys is that is it more of a contract related thing or can you expect more of the same next year (and future years)?

I don't think it's a contract thing. Bishop only needed to see the field. Plus he and Hawk have worked well together, and have brought it. I agree that Capers deserves a hell of a lot of credit for designing schemes that optimize their skills and minimizes their weaknesses. Given what we had seen previously I remain amazed that their deficiencies in coverage haven't been exposed more.

quote:

Originally posted by Herschel:
. Capers has modified the linebackers' roles some with the injury situation and Bishop chases the QB more because they don't want him in coverage much. Hawk also gets to sit underneath a lot.

No this is 100% incorrect. Caper is mixing it up(as he said he would do because of them being in the 2nd year and the players understanding the d more) And he should be doing this. It what the 3-4 defense does. Especially with Matthews on the outside seeing mass double teams now(it opens up the inside gaps).

First off, Bishop is playing Barnett's position in which is Mac ILB. He is suppose to get the majority of rushes while he hit's the gaps and lanes. Especially is the base defense. Secondly, to say they don't drop him into coverage much is not correct either.


Ruh Roh Bishop in coverage.



Hawk INT versus Giants. Uh Oh Bishop in coverage again

Shields INT, Bishop sitting underneath in coverage



Aj Hawk INT versus Vikings? Uh oh, look at Bishop at the bottom of the screen dropping into coverage

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There are a lot of good options for next year but I do think they need to consider extending Bishop. If that happens either Barnett or Hawk are probably gone. Chillar stays because of his versatility.

Hawk has zero chance of going anywhere. Mark it down.

I have no problem with keeping Hawk, but he's just not worth 10 mil next year. They need to re-do that contract.

Absolutely. I look for TT and Hawk to agree on a reasonable extension. 10 million... that hawk won't fly.

I don't think any team in the NFL will pay Hawk anywhere close to $10 million. So if the Packers offer him a good contract, it will come down to whether "he chooses" to play in GB.

Hawk's production can be replaced by a decent mid round draft pick.

He is a good player and avoids injury but not worth $10M.

quote:

Originally posted by Boris:

Bishop, 2nd best LB'er in the league. Behind who? I have no idea.

Couldn't be happier with how Bishop has played this year but 2nd best in the league?

There are a couple of unknowns, but my first choice would be to re-sign Bishop and restructure Hawk. If one of those 2 doesn't happen, then Barnett stays at MLB. I'm guessing that TT gets at least *one* of those two re-signed.

If both are re-signed, I'd let Barnett drop some weight and throw him outside to see if he can play opposite of Matthews. If he can't hack it, then see what you can get in a trade or release him because I doubt he'd take a back-up role.

I'm in favor of letting both Hawk and Nick B walk. That money could be spent on signing a high draft OLB and / or Jenkins who will command big money as he is one of the best 3-4 ends in the game IMO.

If you have a line of Jenkins, Raji, Jolly, Picket and Neal, you can afford to save some money at the ILB spot.

Hawk is steady, but not worth the money, even if he takes a cut. Nick is getting old and becoming injury prone. Time to move on.

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If both are re-signed, I'd let Barnett drop some weight and throw him outside to see if he can play opposite of Matthews.

Thats interesting and certainly worth consideration. Problem is age and injury history.

Same could be said for Jenkins, no? Considering Cullen has missed as much time and is 4 months older, how can you make the argument for someone that is going to possibly get 7 million a year? The Packers have a lot of depth on the DL with Jolly back. No sense to overpay a 3-4 end when you can collect the 3rd round pick.