Really good (and long) read on AR.
Not that the Skip Cluelesses and Cowherds needed more material to STFU but this does it pretty well.
GREAT read for the Aaron Rodgers critics. (including Colin Cowherd) ~mw
Football Outsiders is the internet home for Innovative Statistics and Intelligent Analysis of the NFL and college football. Our writers, led by Aaron Schatz, also provide…www.footballoutsiders.com|By Football Outsiders
Replies sorted oldest to newest
The videos of those throws (and subsequent breakdowns) in that article are pretty fuc**** amaze balls. I am quite guilty of forgetting how damn good he is and how lucky we've had a HOFer QB since 1992. And to think that's also longer then many Packer fans have been alive.
#spoiled!
Those plays are not even the "highlight" reel plays. They are spectacular. Those are like his bread and butter plays. I have to question either the eyesight or the judgement of anyone who questions ARs talent. He had done it so long that it has become almost common. Is he without fault? Obviously not, but some really great players have had less success. I'll take him as my teams QB over pretty much anyone.
Now Football Outsiders, that's a great site. Way better than 50 drunk Irish guys.
Then I start reading the article:
"Cowherd wants us to criticize Rodgers more because Pro Football Focus said that the Packers have the second-best roster in the NFL."
Anyone that thinks PFF is even remotely legitimate is a ****ing moron.
In the very near future. Colin Cowherd, Skip Bayless, and Jason Whitlock are going to realize half of America doesn't know Fox Sports 1 is an actual thing. The other half knows it is but has no idea what channel it's on.
All three of them are going to slowly slip into oblivion. This is reason for all of us to celebrate with unbridled enthusiasm.
The article is not particularly kind to DaVante, Richard Rodgers, the offensive tackles or Linsley.
It's no surprise that's your takeaway from the article. I think your sense of optimism was developed during a car crash.
Nah, it just underscores how much the team relies on Rodgers and how good he really is. When they say the MVP should make the players around him better, this outlines some things we may not always see. The consensus seems to be the packers have a very good offensive line, for example, but aside from the OGs, this shows them as maybe not as good as the credit they're given.
it must be cool to be any other NFL team and not have to rely on your QB.
Any added criticism for the franchise in Green Bay should be pointed at the general manager. Ted Thompson is the one who built this roster, and despite Pro Football Focus' declaration that it is the second most talented roster in the league, it's a team that is far too reliant on its freakishly talented quarterback to carry them. This offseason, Thompson's big addition to his collection of skill position players that have shown off limitations and inconsistency over the past two seasons was Jared Cook, a founding member of the limitations and inconsistency club.
ouch.
I'm pretty sure Ted went out and signed Jordy Nelson to a huge FA deal and personally surgically repaired Ty Montgomery's ankle this offseason. But you can't believe everything you read on the internet either.
ChilliJon posted:It's no surprise that's your takeaway from the article. I think your sense of optimism was developed during a car crash.
I get it, Herschel is negative, and you think that makes you cool for pointing that out, but honestly, did you even read the article? If you read that and DIDN'T walk away in part thinking "wow that wasn't kind to Adams or Dickrod" then something is wrong, or you are just so threatened by any criticism of anything Packer related that you put your fingers in your ears and scream LALALALALA at any possibly sign of criticism of the Packers and Ted Thompson.
Was it the term "incompetent receivers" that made you think Herschel was just being a negative nellie?
Was it breaking down a very specific play on Adams where Rodgers made the exact right call and throw only to be left with "Rodgers even led his receiver towards space upfield, away from the underneath defender, but Adams couldn't make a relatively simple adjustment to catch the ball in front of his face."
Perhaps it was this? "When Rodgers did release the ball, he placed a perfect pass to Richard Rodgers. Rodgers is a very slow receiving tight end who lacks fluidity and ball skills. On this play, Aaron had to lead Richard outside to direct him away from the safety. Aaron did not lead him over the sideline, but Richard still couldn't keep his feet on the ground or get a knee down. This third-down play forced the Packers to punt, costing them 36 yards in the process."
Maybe this " As he so often did on critical downs last year, Davante Adams failed to complete the catch."
If you disagree with the writer's assessment about Adams or Dickrod, then bring it. But, pretending that article wasn't critical of them is insanity.
If I'm being a smart ass, then I'll just leave you with this.
It's no surprise that's your response to a someone pointing out the very obvious in that article. I think your sense of objectivity was developed from Bagdad Bob.
Hey, thanks for pointing that out. I completely missed the context of the article. Now how about you grab a can of settle the **** down and relax.
The only criticism I have myself with Rodgers is that sometimes I think he likes to try to get out of the pocket even when he's well protected. I almost look at it like he's so used to having had turnstiles like Marshall Newhouse/Allen Barbre protecting him in his first 3 or 4 years that he thinks the pressure is always going to be there even though that isn't necessarily the case. What is amazing about Rodgers is that we had a turnstile at LT like Newhouse for quite a bit of the season and Rodgers still found a way to have one of the greatest regular seasons of all time in 2011.
It's a minor nitpick, but I think it is something that teams try to do, keep Rodgers in the pocket where he can get a little bit of happy feet and hope that you can force him into an off day. Most teams fail in trying to do that, but once in awhile teams are able to get away with that type of game plan and it does work against him occasionally.
ChilliJon posted:Hey, thanks for pointing that out. I completely missed the context of the article. Now how about you grab a can of settle the **** down and relax.
I'm perfectly relaxed. But thanks for the concern.
I like FootballOutsiders for their stats, but I'm not seeing the same thing as the writer does in those GIFs. Not sure Cian Fahey is the best choice for breaking down film.
Henry posted:
Now Football Outsiders, that's a great site. Way better than 50 drunk Irish guys.
Weird...
Cian Fahey has been covering the NFL since 2009.
His first professional role coincided with his first year in college. Fahey ran the Sports Central blog on Irishcentral.com, an Irish-American website established by Niall O’Dowd.
CHEEZE posted:Those plays are not even the "highlight" reel plays. They are spectacular. Those are like his bread and butter plays. I have to question either the eyesight or the judgement of anyone who questions ARs talent. He had done it so long that it has become almost common. Is he without fault? Obviously not, but some really great players have had less success. I'll take him as my teams QB over pretty much anyone.
Yet just one ring...which I'm extremely thankful for...don't get me wrong.
That was a season and Super Bowl for the ages...but yet it was amazingly lucky too.
We could easily be sitting here talking about no Super Bowls for Aaron Rodgers.
He needs more rings to not be known as a fart in the wind.
Tough talk for a bunch that doesn't handle it very well...but that's my job.
In the end he will be judged by the rings...and it's past time to get the **** going on that.
oldschool posted:Yet just one ring...which I'm extremely thankful for...don't get me wrong.
That was a season and Super Bowl for the ages...but yet it was amazingly lucky too.
We could easily be sitting here talking about no Super Bowls for Aaron Rodgers.
He needs more rings to not be known as a fart in the wind.
Tough talk for a bunch that doesn't handle it very well...but that's my job.
In the end he will be judged by the rings...and it's past time to get the **** going on that.
Which part was lucky about the Super Bowl? Taking a lead against Philly and holding them off at end? Absolutely curbstomping the #1 seed Falcons in their home? Handily beating the #2 seed Bears in their home? Beating the 2 seed Steelers? There is good fortune you can point to for every Super Bowl winner. Every single one. But that was not "amazingly lucky." They won 4 games on the road, they blew out the #1 seed. Without drops by Nelson and Jones, they likely drop 45+ on the Steelers in the Super Bowl.
And, Rodgers should be judged based on the entirety of his career, both individual and team. It's extremely lazy and short sighted to judge a single NFL players based on "rings", and again, that was one of the points of this linked article here, no matter how great Rodgers is (and he is), there is far more to it than simply saying "Rodgers is a fart in the wind" if he only wins one.
It's not tough talk to call Aaron Rodgers a fart in the wind if he "only" wins one ring. It's mindless fan talk.
Just like the other farts in the wind in NFL history:
Steve Young
Dan Marino
Brett Favre
Fran Tarkenton
Jim Kelly
Dan Fouts
Isn't it feminine to have a lot of rings?
Perhaps it was this? "When Rodgers did release the ball, he placed a perfect pass to Richard Rodgers. Rodgers is a very slow receiving tight end who lacks fluidity and ball skills. On this play, Aaron had to lead Richard outside to direct him away from the safety. Aaron did not lead him over the sideline, but Richard still couldn't keep his feet on the ground or get a knee down. This third-down play forced the Packers to punt, costing them 36 yards in the process."
It's really going to be interesting to see if the new TE coach Angelichio can do anything about the above. Obviously, he can't fix speed but these other issues do seem coachable. Not to mention he has an athletic TE in Cook who when consistent looks a lot like the kind of TE AR has been sorely missed.
Speaking of AR..
GREEN BAY, Wis. -- Aaron Rodgers put his hands on his hips and shook his head. The Green Bay Packers' quarterback was obviously displeased.
Rodgers had just thrown a quick out route toward the right sideline during Monday’s organized team activities. Rookie wide receiver Trevor Davis was on the receiving end -- or was supposed to be, but the ball caromed off his hands.
Exactly what had gone awry on the incompletion wasn’t clear from the sideline. Had the fifth-round draft pick from California run his route at the wrong depth? Had he come out of his break too early? Too late? Not even Davis was sure immediately afterward. But this much was clear: Rodgers believed Davis had done something wrong, and Rodgers' frustrated reaction as Davis headed back toward the huddle was, somehow, a positive?
“You want to do everything perfectly for him. He wants everything done perfectly -- he’s a perfectionist -- and you want to be the exact same way. So having him come to you is actually a good thing, even though you made a mistake,” Davis explained afterward. “Because you know he wants you to do it right. That helps a lot.”
Davis actually made a very good first impression on Rodgers after the draft -- when the receiver managed to overcome his nervousness about meeting the two-time NFL MVP and fellow Cal alum. Rodgers liked Davis immediately for his speed (4.37-second 40-yard dash), smooth athleticism and his eager-to-learn, eager-to-please personality.
But, Rodgers said, that was exactly why he reacted the way he did after the botched pass.
“You’ve got to test [them] out a little bit. You’ve got to see how they respond to the way you talk to them and you lead them and you get on them,” Rodgers said. “Like I would tell him, I’m only going to get on somebody I care about and I think could be a player. I’m not going to waste my time unless I believe in a guy.”
Rodgers has long believed that the key to leadership is figuring out which players need which type of motivation. Some react well to being chewed out; others need their confidence buoyed; still others are driven by a fear of disappointing their quarterback or their coaches.
“Definitely I understand that he throws me the ball to see if he can trust me, and I want him to be able to trust me,” Davis said. “I want him to know that if he throws me the ball, I’m going to catch it.”
As third-year wide receiver Jeff Janis continues to try to earn Rodgers’ trust, Packers quarterbacks coach Alex Van Pelt said he and Rodgers have spoken several times this offseason about Rodgers “working more closely with [the young receivers] on a one-on-one basis, more of a big brother/coach type.”
Good attitude from Davis.
I'm excited about Cook and AR. Consistency has always been his issue though. If it weren't he'd have gotten a ton of cash somewhere else. Perhaps AR helps that though.
GBFanForLife posted:Isn't it feminine to have a lot of rings?
something something pad level
packerboi posted:Perhaps it was this? "When Rodgers did release the ball, he placed a perfect pass to Richard Rodgers. Rodgers is a very slow receiving tight end who lacks fluidity and ball skills. On this play, Aaron had to lead Richard outside to direct him away from the safety. Aaron did not lead him over the sideline, but Richard still couldn't keep his feet on the ground or get a knee down. This third-down play forced the Packers to punt, costing them 36 yards in the process."
It's really going to be interesting to see if the new TE coach Angelichio can do anything about the above. Obviously, he can't fix speed but these other issues do seem coachable. Not to mention he has an athletic TE in Cook who when consistent looks a lot like the kind of TE AR has been sorely missed.
R. Rodgers' father alluded to his son possibly playing at too heavy a weight for him? Looks more athletic in his college highlights than he showed last season:
TE Rodgers was definitely not a burner, but he was thinner and more athletic in college than he has been at GB. You have to wonder if he didn't put on the weight to help his blocking skills. At least at GB if, big IF, he gets open he can catch the ball. I will be looking to see if the new TE coach can get Cook to step it up. Maybe we can have some dangerous two-TE sets if that's the case.
Tdog posted:it must be cool to be any other NFL team and not have to rely on your QB.
Minnesota can suck regardless of what QB they have.
It's east to win a Super Bowl. Just ask Belichick & Brady 
CAPackFan95 posted:oldschool posted:Yet just one ring...which I'm extremely thankful for...don't get me wrong.
That was a season and Super Bowl for the ages...but yet it was amazingly lucky too.
We could easily be sitting here talking about no Super Bowls for Aaron Rodgers.
He needs more rings to not be known as a fart in the wind.
Tough talk for a bunch that doesn't handle it very well...but that's my job.
In the end he will be judged by the rings...and it's past time to get the **** going on that.
Which part was lucky about the Super Bowl? Taking a lead against Philly and holding them off at end? Absolutely curbstomping the #1 seed Falcons in their home? Handily beating the #2 seed Bears in their home? Beating the 2 seed Steelers? There is good fortune you can point to for every Super Bowl winner. Every single one. But that was not "amazingly lucky." They won 4 games on the road, they blew out the #1 seed. Without drops by Nelson and Jones, they likely drop 45+ on the Steelers in the Super Bowl.
And, Rodgers should be judged based on the entirety of his career, both individual and team. It's extremely lazy and short sighted to judge a single NFL players based on "rings", and again, that was one of the points of this linked article here, no matter how great Rodgers is (and he is), there is far more to it than simply saying "Rodgers is a fart in the wind" if he only wins one.
It's not tough talk to call Aaron Rodgers a fart in the wind if he "only" wins one ring. It's mindless fan talk.
1. We needed the Lions to win ON THE ROAD at Tampa Bay to make the playoffs. in 2010. How soon we all forget. I could rest my case right there.
Do you know how many Road games the effin Lions won in the two years prior to this win ...to ALLOW us to get into the playoffs?
Well...do you sunshine ?
===
TAMPA, Fla. -- The Detroit Lions erased some painful memories by endingthe longest road losing streak in NFL history.
Dave Rayner's third field goal, a 34-yarder with 9:51 left in overtime, gave Detroit a 23-20 victory over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and stopped a three-year skid at 26 games on Sunday.
==========
When getting into the playoffs depends on the Lions for anything...well...that is some rather fortuitous happenstance right there...make no doubt about it unless you are just a non-thinking Packer fan robot perhaps?
Let's get real about the 2010 season...it was great...but proof of greatness?
Nope. Nada. So far...just a fart in wind on the resume and application to great teams or greatest QB club.
I'm not saying anything bad or untrue...just being brutally honest.
Depending on the Detroit Lions to break the longest road losing streak in 93 years of NFL history ...that's some luck I'd rather not have to depend on in the future.
The next time you go to the Packer HOF...look at the shiny 4th Lombardi trophy...and thank your lucky stars...and the Detroit effin Lions !
We owe it to the Lions...if that's NOT luck...then what is?
It's almost like winning a Super Bowl is difficult and requires a certain amount of luck. It's really strange that they won the SB being 1 of only 6 wildcard teams to accomplish that since 1970...with only 4 of those 6 winning 3 road games in the playoffs. Ironically 2 of 6 teams in that list had to beat GB to win the SB, the '07 Giants and '97 Broncos.
They're not one of the greatest teams of all time, no one has ever claimed that. Rodgers IS one of the greatest QBs of all time regardless of how his SB win happened. Peyton Manning just sat out a chunk of this season before going on to win a SB, does that tarnish his achievement? Winning a SB being #1 in offense and defense isn't any more impactful than winning as the wildcard that barely made it in the playoffs. Winning the SB is what counts.
Lions beat Tampa with two weeks left in the season. Lions beat GB the week before the Tampa game after Rodgers was knocked out of the game in the second qtr. Final score of that game was 7-3. Rodgers plays that entire game the Tampa game is irrelevant. I mean the Tampa game is already kind of irrelevant because, again, there were still two weeks left in the season.
What im trying to say is your long winded post about the Lions is pointless.
I mean, you probably should have mentioned Desean Jacksons punt return against the Giants that hurt NYs playoff chances the same day as the Tampa game. But even then, there were still two weeks left. So whatever.
Thanks for the brutal honesty though.
The Packers had their shot to be mentioned in the "all-time" category in 2011... 15-1 and a juggernaut offense playing at home for the playoffs. That season was the immortalizer. Back to back with the MVP and the ridiculous numbers and everything.
But instead they imploded. They fumbled 4 times and gave up a Hail Mary.
This is the bitter taste that it seems a lot of folks have trouble washing out. Subsequent efforts equally disappointing- topped off in 2014 when they're 5:32 from going to the Super Bowl and once again implode. Rodgers even pulls them back up off the canvas and they STILL manage to implode.
The commn denominator is that it wasn't Rodgers. The defense, special teams, skillies fumbling... but not Rodgers.
Super Bowls are team accomplishments. Rodgers' greatness is UNQUESTIONABLE. Period. The article demonstrates that pretty well...
Packers were lucky that year, most of it BAD LUCK. I believe they had like 13 players go to Injured Reserve.
They struggled a bit to make the tournament, but then lit everyone's ass on fire. That playoff run was unbelievable.
Has Quarles dropped any passes?
You will have to ask kaperdink or his mentor.
oldschool posted:1. We needed the Lions to win ON THE ROAD at Tampa Bay to make the playoffs. in 2010. How soon we all forget. I could rest my case right there.
That game occurred in Week 15. In week 16, Green Bay curbstomped the New York Giants. The same Giants team that would have gotten in ahead of GB had they won that game. Then Green Bay sealed the playoffs by beating the 2 seed Bears in Week 17. I mean if you're gonna be misleading, why not go all the way and tell me that the Packers were amazingly lucky because the 6-10 Tennessee Titans beat the Giants in week 3. DURRR IF NOT FER DAT YOUR PACKERRZ DONT MAKE PLAYOFS HURRRRRRR
Do you know how many Road games the effin Lions won in the two years prior to this win ...to ALLOW us to get into the playoffs?
Well...do you sunshine ?
The Lions won as many road games the previous 2 years as you trained QBs how to throw those 2 years. Did I get it right, "sunshine?"
When getting into the playoffs depends on the Lions for anything...well...that is some rather fortuitous happenstance right there...make no doubt about it unless you are just a non-thinking Packer fan robot perhaps?
HURRR WHEN U REKWIRE THE TITANS TO WON GAM IN WEEK 3 THAN DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
DOMO ARIGATO MR ROBOTO!
Let's get real about the 2010 season...
Totally. I love being real. Alright. Ready for real! LET'S DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!
it was great...but proof of greatness?
I thought you wanted to get real? You throw a strawman no one stated?
Nope. Nada. So far...just a fart in wind on the resume and application to great teams or greatest QB club.
You know, I say this in all honesty. Eff Ron Wolf and his fart in the wind line. Sincerely. I'm so sick of non-thinking fans using multiple Super Bowls as a digital measure of success/failure. Multiple Super Bowls and you are Good, one Super Bowl and you're a fart in the wind. Sweet mother of god that is stupid.
Have there been frustrating losses in playoffs since then? HELL AND YES AND OMG FIRE DOM CAPERS AND HIS HORRIBLE DEFENSE PLEASE.
Does that mean everything is a failure and the team a "fart in the wind" EFF AND NO.
There's a difference between a fluke (which is what the line "fart in the wind" means) and a team that has been consistently in the running for the title but hasn't gotten it done. Do we all wish we'd have won in 2011 or 2014? Of course! Does it mean the franchise is a fart in the wind? Not in the least. We are in the conversation every farking year. That is the antithesis of "fart in the wind" A fart in the wind isn't making the playoffs every year. A fart in the wind isn't in the NFCC. A fart in the wind makes an appearance, fouls up the air, and quickly disappears. That is not the case here at all. A fart in the wind is the Miami Marlins winning in 2003 and never being heard from since.
As for Rodgers not being in the greatest QB Club. If you are such a hot take guy that you want to claim Rodgers doesn't belong because of only one ring, then you can die on that hill. People with rational cognitive abilities can see both by eyes and by stats that Rodgers is easily, clearly, and without a doubt in the "greatest QB club".
But, let's extend your awesome hottake here. Bob Griese, Eli Manning, Jim Plunkett, and Ben Roethlisberger both have a higher place in the Greatest QB Club evidenced by his 2 rings!
Congrats!
The next time you go to the Packer HOF...look at the shiny 4th Lombardi trophy...and thank your lucky stars...and the Detroit effin Lions !
We owe it to the Lions...if that's NOT luck...then what is?
I could not disagree more sir. you might thank Detroit, I'm gonna thank the Tennessee Titans for that big win in week 3 over the New York football Giants. Duh.
oldschool posted:1. We needed the Lions to win ON THE ROAD at Tampa Bay to make the playoffs. in 2010. How soon we all forget. I could rest my case right there.
No. That game did not give the Packers a playoff birth. The Packers winning their last two games is why they made the playoffs.
What's even funnier here is that Detroit won the following week on the road. Then in the 2011 season, they won their first 4 road games, and went 5-3. Also, 18-24 since that 0-26 streak, but stats, shmats amirite!
So the win over TB was starting a streak of 6 consecutive wins on road. So, were I a misleading robot fan I'd say "Detroit was a solid road team at that time, so it's not at all surprising that they beat Tampa Bay on the road".
But, I'm not a misleading robot fan. So, yeah.
The Lions beating Tampa and Philly beating NY simply meant GB held their playoff destiny regardless of the outcome in NE. But they still had to win their last two games to get to the dance. Turns out the won their last 6.
You want some honest brutal truth Oldschool? Your "son" hates you for honing the QB skills of the neighborhood kids while he grew up toiling in social media anonymity.
