Do I need to root for the Packers to lose?

I'm in til they are out.  Even then I would get great joy in dealing Minny or the Bears a crushing defeat in a crucial late season game. 

That win could cost a bit of draft position...so be it.

As always, Go Pack.

I for one never ever ever ever hope the Packers lose.  Even during the darkest of days in the 70's and 80's I never hoped for that to happen. 

I dont think the Packers would let MM go if he gets the team on a big roll and they make the playoffs it just isn't their way of operating.  I still think that there is a big chance that MM steps down.  

I do think it might be time for a change but I think that right now the team is experiencing growing pains with all of the young players.  But, the young players are staring to be play makers and it has been awhile since we have said that.  

I said in another thread that if they do get rid of MM this may be the biggest coaching hire our team has had in a long time.  They cannot miss on it in my opinion.  

Rooting for your team to lose is a dick move, no matter what their record is.

As Gandhi once said to Abraham Lincoln using the voice of Morgan Freeman  "failure is the father of change".  

As far as rooting for them to lose, it's just like a parent saying to a child about to be punished, "This will hurt me more than it hurts you."

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need.  

Never ever ever root for your team to lose.  Doesn't mean you can't take joy from a higher draft slot.

Maybe we should ask our fan HOF member to opine.

The Heckler posted:

I dont think the Packers would let MM go if he gets the team on a big roll and they make the playoffs it just isn't their way of operating.  I still think that there is a big chance that MM steps down.  

I don't believe MM sliding into the playoffs means he stays in 2019. Maybe that's my wishful thinking, but short of making the SB I think Gute and Murphy have seen enough. 

That this offense is so disjointed, that we're seeing the same shit every year, that Rodgers believes he's the smartest guy in the room and has tuned out MM, and now on top of everything else they are so undisciplined it's probably all the writing on the wall needed to move on from MM.

As for rooting for them to lose? Can't do it. I want to see kids like MVS and Alexander play well and get better and better. I want to see Aaron Jones play more and be reminded that there are key pieces on this team to build around. Hey, this is my glass is half full for a Monday. 

Maybe the last game when what is on the line is clearer but surely not at the midpoint of the season.  Plus, what we root for or wish for means nothing.  If it did we would be undefeated every year.

Enjoy the season.  It's a long time from January till September.

I’m in the camp of rooting for wins. However I am not expecting a SB run and thus the losses are easier to accept. I’m not a fan of MM and think he, not draft slot, is where the focus should point. 

they ain't going 8-0 in the 2nd half.

i will enjoy every game they play though, win or lose.

i will take some pleasure if their losses mean mccarthy is gone for 2019.

I feel like the die has been cast for MM already going back to his "extension". Even if they scratch out some "in your face" victories against the Vikings and/or Bears, there's been enough seen to all but seal it for MM's departure. Losing can become a habit that's hard to get rid of so I'd never wish for that. Hopefully all the GOAT talk will quiet down now and we can enjoy watching AR have some great moments as the season plays itself out.

I see 5-3 at best in the second half. Losses at SEA, MIN, & CHI... and maybe a loss at NYJ.

DH13 posted:

Never ever ever root for your team to lose.  Doesn't mean you can't take joy from a higher draft slot.

Maybe we should ask our fan HOF member to opine.

DH13, I'll be happy to weigh in, though my opinion holds no greater weight than any of yours.  All I'll say after 50 years of being a Packers fan is I fully agree with you and others who say never ever root for your team to lose.  I will admit there were times back in the '70s, as a teenager, when I rooted for the team to lose.  It was always with the hopes of getting a higher draft pick.  I was wrong.  History has shown over and over that high draft picks guarantee nothing.  Citing only what I consider recent history, was Favre a top 10 draft pick?  Rodgers?  Clay Matthews?  No.  But A.J. Hawk in '06 was the prize we got for picking in the top 5 after Favre's only losing year as a Packer.  How about Jamal Reynolds in '01?  What did they buy us?  I learned the hard way, with many high picks in the '70s, that rooting for your team to lose is for losers.  I choose to identify with the all the players, coaches, front office and everyone else in the Packers organization who are focused on winning.  It's what it's all about.  Enjoy the ride, the journey.  It's hard to remain loyal when your team loses, to continue to believe, to hope.  But that's the test of a true fan.  Imagine yourself face-to-face with Vince Lombardi.  Bart Starr.  Brett Favre.  Reggie White.  Aaron Rodgers.  Tell them you're rooting for the Packers to lose.  They'd rip your damn jersey off your body -- and rightfully so -- and tell you how that kind of thinking is the antithesis of what they were/are all about.  There is absolutely no reason to not believe until and if you're mathematically eliminated.  I still believe in this year's Packers team.  We are right in the thick of a great and exciting NFC North race.  I still love our chances to win the division.   Why?  Because they were THAT close to beating both the Rams and Patriots away.  Because all our young guys are getting better.  Because the defense is getting better under Pettine.  Because Rodgers is getting healthier.  Because we're running better.  If the Packers can stay relatively healthy, and play the way they  played against the Rams and Patriots going forward, then they can beat anyone, anywhere.  Do we look like the team to beat right now in the NFC?  Of course not.  Could that change in a couple of months?  Of course it could.  Will it?  Who the hell knows?!  But just the fact that it could -- which history has shown just about every year in the NFL that happens -- makes me root for my team to win.  ALWAYS!  And FOREVER!      

Amen !

That's why SSchumer is in he HOF.  Great post!

BREAKING NEWS!

sschumer - Packer Fan HoF'r posted:  

I will admit there were times back in the '70s, as a teenager, when I rooted for the team to lose.  It was always with the hopes of getting a higher draft pick.  I was wrong.

Take back that GBP Fan HOF ring and bust!

right there with you for the mid to late 70's. 

I'll never root for a loss. Think MM probably needs to take the team relatively deep into the playoffs to save his job and that appears extremely unlikely.

Not sure I am rooting for them to lose, but the upside of them losing is it probably means MM won’t be back.

Finishing around .500 and getting boat raced in the playoffs and retaining MM is worst case scenario.

On defense, I will root for our young players to get better every week. I will root for and hope that some young LBs will surprise. I will also root for Guttergoots and Murphy to keep Pettine. I will root for D growth and wins every week.

On offense, I will root for everyone to stay healthy and AR in particular. I will root for and watch our young receivers get better and better. I will root that Lindsley, Lane, Bahk stay healthy and Guttergoots finds a couple O-lineman somewhere, anywhere. I will root for the O to lose every week so there is no doubt that MM needs to be gone.

So, we'll go 50-50 the rest of the way...

Teams like the Saints and Chiefs find a way to win.

Our team right now is pretty good at finding a way to lose. Or in the case of the Vikings, tie a very winnable game.

I'll tell myself I am rooting for them to lose but once the game starts, I can't help myself and root for victory.     

Knowing that any loss from here on out is a good thing makes the losing easier to deal with though. 

YATittle posted:

Teams like the Saints and Chiefs find a way to win.

Teams like the Saints and Chiefs find a way to draft much higher for a period of years to allow the roster to load up with talent.

For those dead set on our heavy set HC being replaced, how certain were KC and NO fans that they should have moved on just a couple years ago?  Roster quality matters.  Reid didn't have Mahomes during his mediocre years but that offense has a lot of talent on it now.  

Ive said it already. The roster quality is better then our record. I co worker pats fan who actually follows the league told me today he thought GB roster was superior to NE. Especially last night. So what else can explain the lifeless 31-17 loss but MM

I'm cheering for the Saints to lose and look where that is getting me

DH13 posted:

YATittle posted:

Teams like the Saints and Chiefs find a way to win.

Teams like the Saints and Chiefs find a way to draft much higher for a period of years to allow the roster to load up with talent.

For those dead set on our heavy set HC being replaced, how certain were KC and NO fans that they should have moved on just a couple years ago?  Roster quality matters.  Reid didn't have Mahomes during his mediocre years but that offense has a lot of talent on it now.  

Energy counts too.  I don't think a new HC this year would've swept them into the SuperBowl or maybe even the playoffs but it would establish a new ethos to go along with the new GM and Aaron Rodgers.  The defense has clearly benefited. With Rodgers, turnaround on this team should be pretty quick with a couple of good moves and instead of looking at another lost season they could be thinking bigger things next year.  

I used the flashy title to spark the conversation.  In my heart, I don't want them to lose, but my brain is telling me otherwise.  

bigdoggyjude posted:

Ive said it already. The roster quality is better then our record. I co worker pats fan who actually follows the league told me today he thought GB roster was superior to NE. Especially last night. So what else can explain the lifeless 31-17 loss but MM

Yes. It's about leadership.

I don't think anyone needs to root for the Packers to lose.  What we really need to root for is some sound decision making to be done when the season is over.  They definitely need to get the organization stabilized because I think until they have a head coach and GM in synch, it's probably going to lead to more turmoil as it has for a number of years.

It's going to be tough to ever get back to what they were in 2010/2011 because they were just so exceptional back then in nearly every way.  That said, it can be done and I just hope whatever they do in the next year or 2, they make the correct moves and start getting back to the elite organization they once were.

El-Ka-Bong posted:

I'm cheering for the Saints to lose and look where that is getting me

the same place you go for cheering pack to win I suppose.

fightphoe93 posted:

I don't think anyone needs to root for the Packers to lose.  What we really need to root for is some sound decision making to be done when the season is over.  They definitely need to get the organization stabilized because I think until they have a head coach and GM in synch, it's probably going to lead to more turmoil as it has for a number of years.

It's going to be tough to ever get back to what they were in 2010/2011 because they were just so exceptional back then in nearly every way.  That said, it can be done and I just hope whatever they do in the next year or 2, they make the correct moves and start getting back to the elite organization they once were.

Perhaps I am over simplifying, but how far could this current team go with a fresh offensive game plan designed for the opponent that week.

Root for em every single game but as the season moves forward the losses can mean a lot less. 

MM is a stooge

turn the page

Honestly Mark Murphy shouldn’t be too far behind.  His incompetent ass should have fired MM years ago.  Not only does he keep him around but he cooks up some ****ed up structure that doesn’t allow Gute full control. 

That’s the type of shit Judge Parins used to pull.  Murphy needs to move on as well IMO. 

Next HC will report to Gute.   We're in a strange little feeling out period with MM right now and that's got to be the only reason for the structure. 

I know what's been said publicly by Murphy, but I believe Gutekunst will make the call with regard to McCarthy for 2019.

That actually makes sense.   Protect the GM from irrational fans who will lose their collective shit when you fire a SB winning HC.   Especially if they had a decent run and made the playoffs.   

It's very rare for a team with a QB/HC combo to win a SB with a particular roster, and then win it again years later with completely different roster.  The SB winning team may win more than one with mostly the same cast but usually, through attrition, FA and reverse draft order that winning team fades away.  Maybe there is also an element of energy to it where everybody rides the wave of mo generated by ascending talent.  There are only 2, maybe 3 teams that you might say have bucked that trend: NE, PIT and NO though NO has not won that second SB yet with Brees. 

I see PIT and GB as very similar franchises with very similar recent success and current situations.  NE is really a red herring in almost every comparison because BB/TB are such outliers it's unfair to say "be more like them!".  Even though they haven't gotten there yet, NO has a SB looking team with pretty much only Peyton/Brees remaining from that 2009 squad.  They had some down seasons recently that allowed them to reload the roster but it looks like they've taken advantage of that opportunity.  If you want a template for getting back into real contention you should look to what NO has done over the last several years.  Part of the formula includes drafting higher in the order for several drafts.

Protect the GM from irrational fans?  Perhaps.

But not allowing full control over player personnel and coaches is far from the norm unless you are Jerruh Jones who wants to be coach, GM, and owner. 

Put it another way- what makes Mark Murphy qualified to supervise the head coach?  

For all intensive purposes they cleaned house last year and MM should have gone as well.   Now they have him in limbo land and if they can him after the year it’s possible Pettine moves on as well which would be a shame as he’s actually doing good work with this squad. 

Tschmack -  I agree 100%.   I'm just trying to find something to cling to so I can rationalize it. 

I don’t see a huge talent void on this current roster. Perhaps not a 2018 SB roster but a heck of a lot better than 3-4-1 and no signs of significant in-season improvements. To expect anything less than the playoffs and a fighting chance with this roster only distracts from the real issue.