It's a weird thing to gauge. How did SEA, LAR, ATL and even at times ARZ play SF tougher or match up better than GB did?  SF playing to the level of their competition?  The other teams have D better suited to stop SF?  SF was missing more key players when they played those teams?  

All we know, no matter if GB is the 2nd or 16th best team in the NFC, is that they do not match up well with SF whether it be mentally, physically, or otherwise.  I think it's good they'll face off again next year to give us another comparison after another off season.  Hopefully it's not another WK01 "rematch of the NFCCG" as those games usually tell us very little.

DH13 posted:

It's a weird thing to gauge. How did SEA, LAR, ATL and even at times ARZ play SF tougher or match up better than GB did?  SF playing to the level of their competition?  The other teams have D better suited to stop SF?  SF was missing more key players when they played those teams?  

All we know, no matter if GB is the 2nd or 16th best team in the NFC, is that they do not match up well with SF whether it be mentally, physically, or otherwise.  I think it's good they'll face off again next year to give us another comparison after another off season.  Hopefully it's not another WK01 "rematch of the NFCCG" as those games usually tell us very little.

How did they play them tougher? Simple, they have faster defenses and DLs that can disrupt. 

Besides Kenny Clark nobody on this defense up front can really disrupt and the style they play isn't designed to disrupt. The front is there to eat up blockers.  The other teams play more of a single gap and attack to try and disrupt plays.

 

 

Considering what the Pack put on the field the prior 2 seasons,  MLF did a fantastic job.  A first time head coach reaching the superb bowl would be a hell of a story, but in reality, making the NFCC is beyond honest expectations. 

Need a second reliable receiver,  better center, and  AR needs to get the ball out much faster. Opportunities are there for the taking. 

Improving the run stop, and fundamental tackling over trying to strip the ball first will make a good defense better.

Tweaking the 2020 season,  not over reacting, with possible exception of a new special teams coach, seems reasonable.  Much of this team needed to see championship football up close, and experience it.  If the team improves next year, the team is on the right track. 

excalibur posted:
PackOly posted:
 
... and  AR needs to get the ball out much faster. Opportunities are there for the taking. 

 

Do you believe that at this late stage of his career he is capable of changing? I don't.

Absolutely he is. He’s different this year than he was last year and has seemingly changed year to year his entire career. His play style changes based on his supporting cast as well. If he had the 2011 crew in 2019 I guarantee he plays different. 

After a day to "step back" my opinion on this team moving forward, must be viewed in relation to what you thought this past season was:  over-achieving but got lucky to get to the NFCC game or a team on the rise that obviously has some holes to fill to compete with the best of the best.  

If you feel that this season was a fluke then you must also accept the idea that this team is now entering year 2 of what is likely a 3 year rebuild.  With that in mind, it's acceptable to draft BPA REGARDLESS of position. That would include QB/DB/RB.  If a QB is available and the FO feels he's the "one" then you take him.  

However, if you lean more towards viewpoint #2, then a QB is not the most pressing need.  WR/ILB/DL is where the draft needs to focus.  

I'm choosing viewpoint #2.  My hope is that with an infusion of better skill position talent and another year to adjust to MLF's system, this offense will start to run smoothly.  Regardless, ILB is the major weakness on D and must be addressed. The rest of the draft and free agency must focus on shoring up the holes and finding a few players to be the backbone of this team after AR is gone.

 

 

Grave Digger posted:
excalibur posted:
PackOly posted:
 
... and  AR needs to get the ball out much faster. Opportunities are there for the taking. 

 

Do you believe that at this late stage of his career he is capable of changing? I don't.

Absolutely he is. He’s different this year than he was last year and has seemingly changed year to year his entire career. His play style changes based on his supporting cast as well. If he had the 2011 crew in 2019 I guarantee he plays different. 

 

 

People have been complaining about him not getting the ball out fast for more than the 2019 season.

A great team season but not a great QB season. When was the last time you saw AR12  really step into a throw and drive it downfield?  Not yesterday, not many times vs. Seattle and not at all vs. Detoilet.  On most of his passes this season he is either back peddling or throwing flat footed.  He needs to get back to doing what great QBs do,  step up and drive the ball.  He looks like he never wants to move up in the pocket because he might get hurt. Keep playing like that and he will suffer a career ending injury.   Watch Mahomes in 2 weeks, that is what Rodgers used to be. 

It was damn hard to watch the PACKERS collapse on D in this game & lose. This was a great season considering the players that were on the roster. Great strides in improving quality of players by Gute & damn good coaching by HC !!! I know if it was in the cards that the PACKERS would lose,it was better now than in a SB. The loss to the Broncos still is gagging me !!!!

PackOly posted:

Considering what the Pack put on the field the prior 2 seasons,  MLF did a fantastic job.  A first time head coach reaching the superb bowl would be a hell of a story, but in reality, making the NFCC is beyond honest expectations. 

Need a second reliable receiver,  better center, and  AR needs to get the ball out much faster. Opportunities are there for the taking. 

Improving the run stop, and fundamental tackling over trying to strip the ball first will make a good defense better.

Tweaking the 2020 season,  not over reacting, with possible exception of a new special teams coach, seems reasonable.  Much of this team needed to see championship football up close, and experience it.  If the team improves next year, the team is on the right track. 

This season was a fun ride for me.  I thought they would be better maybe winning 9 or so games but never would have thought they would have gotten this far.

To me getting as far as this team did was amazing especially after how the last two seasons played out.  It really was a fun ride and it almost feels like the mid 90's Packers before they won it all.  The front office is in good shape with an aggressive GM who will do whatever he can to make them better. And we have a young and very good HC who will like the players has gained some valuable experience and I bet the burning hunger to get over that last hump.

I think if they can find a #2 and a #3 receiver you will  see AR back to the AR we are used to seeing and the offense will be lethal again.

Defensively, I don't think it is scheme so much as a weakness in personnel.  They really need a DE to team up with Clark and an ILB who is physical and will partner up with Martinez if he is back.

 

ammo posted:

A great team season but not a great QB season. When was the last time you saw AR12  really step into a throw and drive it downfield?  Not yesterday, not many times vs. Seattle and not at all vs. Detoilet.  On most of his passes this season he is either back peddling or throwing flat footed.  He needs to get back to doing what great QBs do,  step up and drive the ball.  He looks like he never wants to move up in the pocket because he might get hurt. Keep playing like that and he will suffer a career ending injury.   Watch Mahomes in 2 weeks, that is what Rodgers used to be. 

Too much is made of this.  Often.  He's been throwing off platform, off his back foot and flat footed since at least 2010 to some extent.  He can still make all the throws that way too, and some he really shouldn't be able to.  The throw to Davante on 3rd down late vs. SEA two weeks ago was a perfect example.  He just flicks his wrist. He's earned the right to throw however he wants to.   The off target throws this year was a combo of not having the offense in sync, little talent at WR/TE and probably some ageing.  Very little had to do with "how" he threw.

It’s really tough to gauge this year because this is the first season in a while they’ve been healthy and they won a lot of close games.   They also had a few blowout losses along the way. 

In reality, they were probably more of a 10-6 team than a 13-3 team but even so it was a decent year because they won the division and hosted and won a home playoff game.  

I wish they would have had a better showing against SF but the Niners are simply a better team at this point for a number of reasons.  I also think the loss exposed a few weaknesses that need to be addressed namely the WR and LB and DL positions.  You could also argue DB but with more experience I think they will continue to improve. 

What’s encouraging is the arrow is pointing up and this team is trending in the right direction so assuming Gute doesn’t pull a ThanksTed and make horrible decisions the next couple of years I think they can be expected to compete for an NFC title the next 2-3 years.  They also aren’t totally cash strapped or have a ton of players to deal with in the offseason. 

The watch outs are people will be expecting a lot more now and several players had career type years - namely Z and Aaron Jones.  And as we all know injuries can make or break a season (see Philadelphia).  They also need a little bit of good luck in terms of how some personnel moves work out.  

But it’s all out in front of them so that’s a good place to be. 

Last edited by Tschmack
Timpranillo posted:
TouchdownWhitewaterJesus posted:

+ Our pass defense really stepped up.

β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”

- They took our manhood.

I have no issues with opposing fans coming on and trash talking from time to time.  Be consistent, be here when you win and be here when you lose and as long as you're following the rules, welcome and enjoy your time here. 

But, FFS man, if you're gonna play the parody account thing here, do better. This isn't even half assed. It's like 1/128th assed. At best. 

While others get pissed off at your BS, (and maybe that's all you want) I'm not pissed. I'm just embarrassed for you, and your fanbase, if this is the best you got.  A better man (I guess someone with their manhood in tact?) could have sailed under the radar and created an account with some actual nuance, been mildly entertaining, and actually funny to some.  This though?  Sad. Pathetic. A child could produce something 100x more entertaining. 

Step up your game son.  

I am also embarrassed for their fair-weather fan base, but i'll get over it. What will they do next season when they lose all those veteran players due to their mismanaged salary cap situation or all the ill will that players like Rhodes have for their team? Looks like that "great" defense, we have heard about, but rarely got to see, in our sweep of the vikings, will get decimated in the off season. Players like Diggs and what's his name, Theilen?, on offense do not seem to be happy with the way the $84 million man throws the ball to them. Will they be asking for a trade, or are they going to be free agents, soon? Sounds like rebuilding mode, once again, in viking land. All that capital spent on their O Line and it still is as porous as ever. Kark had better hope the vikings don't trade Barr to an NFC North opponent, especially with that O Line. 

Fandame posted:
lambeausouth posted:

Nights like this one really make me wish we’d taken TJ Watt instead of King. King may yet end up being good. He took a step forward this year, though still inconsistent at times. Watt’s All Pro. He would have been a huge boon to the front seven. 

Thanks, Ted!

Please, please stop with the TJ Watt whining. It's over, it's done. Yes, it was a mistake to not take Watt but at least King isn't a total bust. The Watt, Watt, Watt is just getting old, old, old... 

Yes it is and it is time to move on from it.  Now we have a GM I am more confident in that he won't make mistakes like that.  Is he perfect?  no GM is but I have more confidence in him than I did when ROTTT was calling the shots.

I honestly am very confident that the Packers organization from top to bottom will use this arse whooping as a motivational tool all offseason.  I truly am excited to see what Gute does this offseason because I honestly think he was one year ahead of schedule in his rebuild.

DH13 posted:

I'll echo that.  If any of our FO people were on the fence about certain players or positions before this loss, they shouldn't be anymore.  It wasn't "just one game", it was two games against the team you will probably have to beat for the foreseeable future if you want to get back to the bowl.  

And every other team that watches film in the off-season will try to replicate at least some aspects of that game plan.