End of Season +/-

Hoping things would be different this time in SF but kind of knew this was coming. Still a great result for first-year coach, what a ride.

Packers are on the rise!

Just not sure what to say........so happy they made it to the championship game.....but this ugly winning team, needs MORE WORK..... JMHO.    

+ Getting to spend time on x4 venting, celebrating, debating, and talking shit.  Thanks for providing a needed distraction.

+ a very unexpected season in terms of wins. 

+ a team with a chance. 

+ bears, viqueens, loins still suck

- was i just drunk and high, or were there soooo many commercials

Plus

We got pass rushers and decent secondary.

Lazard is going to be great and cheap number 3 WR next year.

Jenkins with the most impressive rookie season from a Packer since Clay or BJ.

Some of the youngsters gained valuable playoff experience.

We have an excellent head coach.   

NEGS

The cupboard is bare in the front middle.   Outside of Clark there isn’t anyone worth a shit on the DL.

We need a legit WR2 desperately.  

ILB cupboard is completely empty.  

+

This team went further than anybody legitimately thought it would.  I was hoping for a wild card birth at best.  Turns out we were one game away from the Super Bowl and got beat by a much superior team.  I'll take it.

GB gets an off season to dabble in FA, cut dead weight and find some young studs in the draft.  

Rodgers and the boys get another off season to dial that offense in.

-

Game threads

Team continued to battle, much better look than the first game against SF. 

Gotta get more disciplined against the run. Need help, need some horses who understand how to get the job done. Some of these young guys like Alexander, Savage, Gary, etc will start getting more savvy and that will help tremendously. 

+ After the past two terrible years and all the off-season changes, I'm relatively pleased with the season in general. I thought we were still a few players away from being a contender so I didn't expect to get this far this quickly.

- I hate playing like shit and losing NFCCG's. It's like a punch in the gut to come so close but not be able to get over the hump and make it to the SB. Oh well, the football season is now officially over with for me.

BrainDed posted:

Plus

We got pass rushers and decent secondary.

Lazard is going to be great and cheap number 3 WR next year.

Jenkins with the most impressive rookie season from a Packer since Clay or BJ.

Some of the youngsters gained valuable playoff experience.

We have an excellent head coach.   

NEGS

The cupboard is bare in the front middle.   Outside of Clark there isn’t anyone worth a shit on the DL.

We need a legit WR2 desperately.  

ILB cupboard is completely empty.  

 

You win the Martinez debate.  He's not good enough if GB wants to take the next step.  GB currently has nothing at MLB.  Nobody can cover, make a play or fill a gap to stop a runner at or behind the LOS.  

Cory Littleton is the guy I want in FA.  

And let’s not forget,.....we beat the queens and went further they did.  That’s my life now..... 

DocBenni posted:

- was i just drunk and high, or were there soooo many commercials

That's what gave me time to keep up with the game thread.

++ There’s a lot to work with on the roster, far different from when we were looking at overhauling the entire defense or something. Yes, we have spots that need upgrading, but we are in a lot better spot.

++ We have a head coach. There were a lot of things, even in today’s game before it got out of hand, that were good. Over the year, we ran better this year than in the past many years. Guys were schemed open. First-year guy, and I think he’ll learn and get better.

— Maybe it is time to move on from Pettine. He was given more toys, but couldn’t develop/use them. Yes, we need a better MLB or two, but what happened to the DL? Were they really that bad except Clark or were they never used in the scheme? Were they not developed? You can see Gary has some potential; why didn’t it develop more? Why no adjustments in games?

Overall, great year. Just want it to be better next year.

Goldie posted:

And let’s not forget,.....we beat the queens and went further they did.  That’s my life now..... 

At minimum, that’s my life every year!

+ great season really 

+ swept the bears...and the vikings

+ I think there is a decent foundation for the future 

-Gute did a great job with free agents this year and the coaching staff

-Gute's drafting leaves a bit to be desired-obviously the 2019 crew has to mature and Jenkins has been outstanding  but Savage looked lost at times tonight , Gary can't unseat undrafted players and....2018 was terrifying-Jaire Alexander a keeper-the rest, a complete wash

+

We went 14-4. We were 6 inches on the last play of the last regular season game from hosting the NFC Championship.

We have a HOF QB, a superstar WR, a stud RB, and a potentially HOF-level LT all under contract for next year. 

We have two edge rushers that were dominant pass rushers back next year. 

We have good, young players at DB. Jaire Alexander and Savage are both potential Pro Bowlers. Amos was a great pickup. King was frustrating at times, but he's better than every single DB the Packers had the last time they were in the NFC championship game. 

The only significant free agents to worry about are Bulaga, Tramon, Blake Martinez, and Mason Crosby. 

-

We lost in the NFC title game. 

We probably have only one other WR worth bringing back  (Lazard). 

We need an upgrade at ILB. 

We need development at the TE position. 

The summary is that the hardest positions to find impact players at are QB, WR, RB, CB, LT, and edge rusher. We have all those covered. We are in better shape than probably 29-30 teams for next year. 

Can't post in game thread.

Bizarre stat, I guess he is Trent Dilfer.

But if Pack can't stop the run why would 9ers throw it?

Interesting to see if Jimmy G can keep up in a shootout with Mahomes...

+

Great season that exceeded my expectations. Good foundation appears to be there to build on for the future.

-

Lots of work to be done with the roster. Dom was rightfully criticized for the Kaepernick debacle and Pettine shouldn't escape it for an equally ugly performance tonight. 

Maxi54 posted:

+ After the past two terrible years and all the off-season changes, I'm relatively pleased with the season in general. I thought we were still a few players away from being a contender so I didn't expect to get this far this quickly.

- I hate playing like shit and losing NFCCG's. It's like a punch in the gut to come so close but not be able to get over the hump and make it to the SB. Oh well, the football season is now officially over with for me.

The season was definitely a pleasant surprise.  I knew they were an improved team but never anticipated a 13-3 regular season.  They clearly have some holes left to fill, and they may very well have a slight dip in their record yet still be a better team in 2020.  Schedule will be tougher and it would be unlikely that they have as few injuries as they did this year. 

That, my friend, is the 64K question.

KC is probably the only team that can stress the Niner D with speed.

GreenBayLA posted:

Can't post in game thread.

Player	CP/ATT	YDS	TD	INT
Jimmy Garoppolo	6/8	77	0	0

Bizarre stat, I guess he is Trent Dilfer.

But if Pack can't stop the run why would 9ers throw it?

Interesting to see if Jimmy G can keep up in a shootout with Mahomes...

 

 

 

Jimmy G IS NOT GOING TO KEEP UP WITH MY #2 BOYFRIEND.    

Pakrz posted:

BrainDed posted:

Plus

We got pass rushers and decent secondary.

Lazard is going to be great and cheap number 3 WR next year.

Jenkins with the most impressive rookie season from a Packer since Clay or BJ.

Some of the youngsters gained valuable playoff experience.

We have an excellent head coach.   

NEGS

The cupboard is bare in the front middle.   Outside of Clark there isn’t anyone worth a shit on the DL.

We need a legit WR2 desperately.  

ILB cupboard is completely empty.  

 

You win the Martinez debate.  He's not good enough if GB wants to take the next step.  GB currently has nothing at MLB.  Nobody can cover, make a play or fill a gap to stop a runner at or behind the LOS.  

Cory Littleton is the guy I want in FA.  

Littleton, Robbie Anderson/AJ Green and Austin Hooper/Hunter Henry...win the super bowl

It's gonna take a bigger boat than that. 

Hate to bag on the coaching staff, I've been supportive all year.  But they didn't show me they learned much since Nov. when it comes to beating SF.  I got the sense today that if rosters were equal, Shanahan and Saleh would still win.  There were too many plays on D where SF ran an end around or jet to one side and there were maybe 2 Packers on that 1/3 of the field.  Deebo Samuel will take those numbers on every down.  In fact, SF ran that same play twice within 5 or 6 snaps.  Just a small sample and it's late but on D Shanahan too often seemed a step ahead of Pettine.

Obviously.....can't disagree -- Packers had no answer for them tonight. They deserved to win. 

Really wanted Deebo in the draft.

DH13 posted:

Really wanted Deebo in the draft.

Yeah sure.....then we don't have Elgton Jenkins. 

We don't get to draft 75 players before another team gets a chance. 

More than one way to get a guy.

But thanks for simplifying it for me.

Sometimes you need some luck too. Lynch has drafted some turds. Pretty hard to fuck up the Bosa pick.

Gute has gotten some Good dudes via draft and FA. RELAX

DH13 posted:

It's gonna take a bigger boat than that. 

Hate to bag on the coaching staff, I've been supportive all year.  But they didn't show me they learned much since Nov. when it comes to beating SF.  I got the sense today that if rosters were equal, Shanahan and Saleh would still win.  There were too many plays on D where SF ran an end around or jet to one side and there were maybe 2 Packers on that 1/3 of the field.  Deebo Samuel will take those numbers on every down.  In fact, SF ran that same play twice within 5 or 6 snaps.  Just a small sample and it's late but on D Shanahan too often seemed a step ahead of Pettine.

What gave you that sense? The rosters are NOWHERE close to being equal. San Francisco threw the ball 8 times tonight. Don’t you get that?

Their front seven is so vastly superior to ours it’s laughable. Z and Preston Smith and Kenny Clark would make the Niners roster. Not one other guy that plays defensive line or linebacker on our roster would. Gary is a work in progress, so I exclude him from that. But the rest are just a bunch of slow guys. San Francisco’s backup RB hung 200 + on us running the ball. 

And then there’s the offensive line. Bakhtiari and Jenkins are keepers, for sure. Anybody else?

Receivers. Adams is a legit #1, top five in the NFL, maybe top three. I like Lazard’s upside, but let’s slow down on hoping he’s our #3 next year. If we get a real good receiver, and they get hurt, do you want Lazard to be our #2? I don’t. 

Sternberger needs to take a step forward, and become the clear #1 tight end we drafted him to be. We need a minimum of two top tier receivers added to the roster. One via draft, one via FA or trade. 

Nights like this one really make me wish we’d taken TJ Watt instead of King. King may yet end up being good. He took a step forward this year, though still inconsistent at times. Watt’s All Pro. He would have been a huge boon to the front seven. 

Thanks, Ted!

Boris posted:

DH13 posted:

Really wanted Deebo in the draft.

Yeah sure.....then we don't have Elgton Jenkins. 

We don't get to draft 75 players before another team gets a chance. 

Sure we do..  You trade down from 12 because there wasn't any impact players at that slot.   

How many times are we going to replay the TJ Watt pick?   It's history, it's done, move on already.   What matters is what Gute can do via free agency and draft to get some playmakers on offense, and improve the MLB position and defensive line position. 

Can't do everything in one off-season;  the reason the 49ers are stacked is because over the last 4 years they picked 17th, 7th, 9th, 2nd.  When you pick in the top 10 of each rounds you have a better chance of getting impact players, which the 49ers have capitalized on and after being terrible for the past three years (12-36 from 2016-2018) all those higher picks ended up paying off this year.

BrainDed posted:

Boris posted:

DH13 posted:

Really wanted Deebo in the draft.

Yeah sure.....then we don't have Elgton Jenkins. 

We don't get to draft 75 players before another team gets a chance. 

Sure we do..  You trade down from 12 because there wasn't any impact players at that slot.   

Hey that's great!!

And you have a team that's willing to give us a boatload of picks/players for the #12 pick, yes??

It takes 2 to tango.

lambeausouth posted:

Nights like this one really make me wish we’d taken TJ Watt instead of King. King may yet end up being good. He took a step forward this year, though still inconsistent at times. Watt’s All Pro. He would have been a huge boon to the front seven. 

Thanks, Ted!

Please, please stop with the TJ Watt whining. It's over, it's done. Yes, it was a mistake to not take Watt but at least King isn't a total bust. The Watt, Watt, Watt is just getting old, old, old... 

+
There are many and I'm sure I won't be able to recall more than I can think of, but...
The emergence of a real running game. It made a tremendous difference this year, and likely will for at least the short-term future.
Finally having a season of relatively good health overall. Definitely want to see that continue going forward.
Packers management focus returned to the team and away from "non-football operations".
FA acquisitions were a good, if not great, ROI. They may not have hit them all, but the ones they did were HRs. In any case, every single one of them were miles ahead of the players they replaced.

-
Passing game was rather disappointing. We can see what they are capable of when it clicks, but it largely didn't over the season. I don't think we are as bad as what some others think at WR and TE, but something has to change. Start by trimming the fat at TE; too many players producing way too little.
Also disappointed in the OL play when matched up against the stronger defenses. Whatever the answer to that is will have to be found before we can compete with teams like the 49ers.
Rush defense. Started out bad, finished bad. We've got some horses, but apparently not enough of them. Speaking of games being won/lost in the trenches, the Packers won't be able to take the next step until that's solved.
Special Teams. Unpossible to think it's a problem every year, yet it is. 

Overall, it was a pressure-packed season with plenty of adversity, but it was incredibly fun, exciting, and enjoyable. 
I can't wait to see what next season brings!
    

The Super Bowl features teams that showcase speed. It’s not a new NFL concept- you can’t teach it, and it rules the game when combined with execution. This season, the Packers lacked both.

On defense, opponents time after time exposed Blake Martinez’s lack of speed- and the NFCC game was no exception. Sideline to sideline the 49ers stretched the Packers and cut them to pieces. Contrast that with what the 49ers defense did when the Packers tried to do the same, and the differences are stunning. 

With Rodgers, the speed of the game seemed ahead of his decision making all season long. Why that is should be a major question that the organization spends a lot of time answering between now and September. Watching the Chiefs and Mahomes carve up defenses after falling behind in back to back games was crazy to watch- and you can see how much faster Mahomes processes what he sees. How many times did we watch a replay and see a guy open on the initial progression, and Rodgers look right at it and hold the ball? If you watch the all-22 it happened every single game, and the NFCC game was no exception. People scream for the Packers to dink and dunk, use short passes so Rodgers isn’t getting hammered every game, but if the QB is unwilling to pull the trigger, what can you do? 

So there’s speed of foot and speed of execution- the Packers muscled and clawed their way to the NFCC game lacking both, which is encouraging- it means they’re not far for the level needed to play at a Championship level. The draft and FA will be used to address their team speed and recycle some of their aging parts. Then they gotta figure out how to get their veteran QB to play the game faster, too. 

lambeausouth posted:

What gave you that sense? The rosters are NOWHERE close to being equal. San Francisco threw the ball 8 times tonight. Don’t you get that?

Their front seven is so vastly superior to ours it’s laughable. Z and Preston Smith and Kenny Clark would make the Niners roster. Not one other guy that plays defensive line or linebacker on our roster would. Gary is a work in progress, so I exclude him from that. But the rest are just a bunch of slow guys. San Francisco’s backup RB hung 200 + on us running the ball. 

 

Oh I see, you want to replace the whole roster except 5 guys instead of assigning any responsibility to the coaches.  Why not just reset the game console?

The plays I listed had nothing to do with player ability and everything to do with defensive play calling.  You don't seem to get that.  Go look at the replay. A third of the field was regularly vacant and SF ran straight for it.

look, we got beat clean by a better team.  

+ take something away from that ass kicking and come back bitter about it.  use that to be better next year

+ the change in one year is amazing

+ we have a good nucleus to work with on both sides

- have some serious talent gaps, so the reset continues

- to get to the tecmobowl football that sf played last night, we need a couple more years.

- i abs hate getting embarrassed in front of the country like that...the team should really take that chip and use it next year...

- special teams is the only thing i would blow up, keep 2, but i would consider turfing opie and getting rid of the coach there.

That's right. Run to daylight. That is what the Niners do. Kind of like what Lombardi did in the 60's. 

You saw glimpses of it with Aaron Jones on offense. He had some nice runs off the edge for 7-9 yards. Packers obviously got behind because they couldn't stop it on defense. 

Gotta give Niner OL credit. George Kittle too because they used him like a 6th OL. Thought the Pack would do that with M. Lewis. 

Least the pack made it respectable in the 2nd half.

Neg...

Minus 3 turnovers. Said the Pack needed to be +2 and that's your ballgame folks. 

Fumbled snap was fucking ridiculous. 1 iNT on the deep shot doesn't bother me. Desperation 

+ 14-4. I certainly didn’t expect that from a first year head coach. Great turnaround and there’s a lot too look forward to next season. 

- What a pathetic joke of a performance. It’s like they didn’t even want to be there. Plenty of other teams were competitive against the Niners this season. We were embarrassed...twice!

Pretty clearly a significant talent gap between the two teams and there's also a coaching gap there. Packers had two opportunities to at a minimum be competitive with the Niners and fell woefully short on both occasions. 

The season was a pleasant surprise at 13-3 and winning a playoff game at Lambeau.  Sweeping MIN and CHI may have been my favorite part.  But the underlying concerns beneath the "ugly wins" were not misplaced.  They beat some teams they maybe shouldn't have and found ways to win in close contests.  But we should really look at why those wins looked ugly and why things came down to the wire as often as they did.  

On D, we added a bunch of sacks and pressures, even some turnovers.  Also had some good bounces go our way.  But the yards given up was a hard stat to shake.  So was the ranking vs. the run.  There's also the fact this team was at close to a 100% for the whole year and played a lot of games where the opponent had starters missing.  You can beat a lot of teams that way.  Unfortunately SF was not one of those teams.  

Gauging this team is tough.  Is it better than 14 other teams in the conference but not in the same league as the 15th?  SF truly has a stacked roster, full of high picks, mostly in their first contract.  That's a lot of talent and youth and their cap is not too shabby.  They're going to be around for the foreseeable future.  So you really have to use them as a measuring stick.  I don't know how you get there without drafting in the top 10 or top 1/3 for 3 years and hitting on a lot of picks.  Gute has had two drafts and 3 guys have played significant snaps.  That has to improve.  He'll also have to be active in FA this year.  But he can't rely on that every year unless he wants to start pushing money out.

The good news is we have a QB, LT, WR and RB that is as good a combo as any.  However half of those guys are closer to the end of their career than the beginning.  There is not much time to waste.  We also have a DT, two edge rushers, a CB and two S you can win with.  

I don't have any answers short of finding impact players at WR#2, ILB, DL, and OL.  I thought the team was on it's way to long lean years when MM was hired and Farb was looking more and more like a liability every year.  Never would have guessed we'd be in the NFCCG in MM's second year, and with 4 at QB.  We could see the same turnaround with the current team.  Stranger things have happened.

slowmo posted:

How many times are we going to replay the TJ Watt pick? 

I will never get over it! And I will never get over not trading for Beast Mode!

michiganjoe posted:

Pretty clearly a significant talent gap between the two teams and there's also a coaching gap there. Packers had two opportunities to at a minimum be competitive with the Niners and fell woefully short on both occasions. 

That's the most troubling concern for me, the coaching gap.  Is MLF capable of taking his O in a unique direction that Shanahan doesn't already know like the back of his hand?  Does Pettine only need more talent (that sounds way too familiar) or does he just not know how to combat SF's O?

I keep going back to Holmgren/Seifert.  Seifert was no Walsh but he was his OC and had a lot of success in both roles (HC, OC).  Holmgren was further down the ladder.  But he was smart enough to figure out how to beat his mentor with Fritz.  MLF will need to do the same.

Hey as soon as we get to draft in the top 10 for like 7 straight years we'll be right there with the Niners. 

pkr_north posted:

look, we got beat clean by a better team.  

+ take something away from that ass kicking and come back bitter about it.  use that to be better next year

+ the change in one year is amazing

+ we have a good nucleus to work with on both sides

- have some serious talent gaps, so the reset continues

- to get to the tecmobowl football that sf played last night, we need a couple more years.

- i abs hate getting embarrassed in front of the country like that...the team should really take that chip and use it next year...

- special teams is the only thing i would blow up, keep 2, but i would consider turfing opie and getting rid of the coach there.

I hope that chip is better than the chip I've heard about for years.

Cow chips.