Pakrz posted:
Packmeister posted:
mrtundra posted:

"They need to draft the future QB now."

...and just who might that be? Tua? In most of the mock drafts I have seen, Tua is gone by pick #6. Are we going to trade up into the top 5 to get him? I highly doubt it. So, which QB, other than Tua, is worth going after, in this draft?

 

It's a bit early for me to say who I'd like to see us draft (pre-combine), and right now, the prospect rankings are all over the place. Given the team's needs in other areas, I don't a see a QB getting drafted before day 3.

You know, James Morgan at Florida International is from Green Bay. I would certainly put him on the list of players the team will consider.

Nate Stanley of Iowa would be another local prospect the team might look at.

 

This is the National Football League.  Local prospects don't mean shit.  

They do if they're talented, just like any other prospect. The main point of my post was to identify quarterbacks who will go late day-2, or on day-3, which is where the Packers ought to take one. There are too many other areas of need to draft a QB early, and AR is still capable of getting the team to the Super Bowl.

Both of those quarterbacks are well-regarded as mid-round prospects.

Last edited by Packmeister
Boris posted:
michiganjoe posted:

Agree with MLF.

The "huge gap" is the fact that the SF entire coaching staff knows the Packer coaches backwards & forwards. 

MLF needs to make changes. 

But I'll just leave this here.....

IMG_20200122_093141_01

All those years the Niners sucked the Packers were making 2 other NFC Championship Games.

Not hanging my head over here. Just wasn't our year. 

Lived in the Bay Area off and on, in the 80's and then recently.  Biggest bunch of front runners, in every sport.  I remember in the mid-80's my employer used to get blocks of free tickets to A's game, just when Canseco, McGwire, etc were getting going, because they couldn't get people to go to games.  Empty stadium, you could start with your upper level seat and by the second inning be sitting behind the third base dugout.  Once they got going in the late 80's, sellouts.  Today, empty stadiums again. (Although, to be fair, the Oakland Coliseum probably qualifies as a literal craphole)

Same with the Giants and Warriors during their tough years.  People wearing Warriors or Giants jerseys were rare, but see them everywhere these days.  Couple of more bad years for these teams and the jerseys will be at the bottom of the closet.

Last edited by slowmo
DH13 posted:

I keep going back to Pettine's whole "the #1 priority on D will be stopping the pass because that is more important" statement.  I think he knows this likely sacrifices run D performance and is willing to give that up in order to prevent death by the pass.  Is he capable of scheming a D that can do both?  Is it possible without many more high draft picks? 

This guy explains it better: Bill Huber - SI on GB/SF

 

No to Tua and Stanley. Neither is consistently impressive. I'm looking for someone late in R3 or below who isn't as well-known but at this point shows the potential to be better than Boyle. Rodgers is still capable, and his backup should be a step up from Boyle, but someone that can survive all year on the PS. It's going to take a while to learn MLF's system. Leave Boyle in place next year. 

If we're currently in an "all in" situation for the remainder of AR's contract, you should probably look for a journeyman vet to be QB2 if the intent is to have some insurance if QB1 misses games.  I don't know that Boyle or a draft pick can be counted on in that capacity.

It's fine to draft a guy in the mid to late rounds if the value is there.  But I don't think you could count on that guy to win you some games while AR is out.

Last edited by DH13
michiganjoe posted:

From Gutey's remarks today.

I can almost guarantee they inquired about AJ Green & possibly E. Sanders but TBH. Sanders isn't worth a 3rd & 4th even if you acquire an additional 5th. 

Cincinnati is too effing Stoooooopid to get something for Green. Now they're going to try & franchise him then he holds out, etc. Etc. Etc 

AJ Green is also a good person OFF the field. Met his Uncle the day he was drafted. Really hope Packers can get a player of his caliber. 

Per ESPN, Packers DB coach Jason Simmons will be leaving the Packers to join the Panthers in the same position.  Somewhat strange, because Simmons has been with the Packers for 9 years in various capacities, and is making a lateral move the Packers could block if they wanted. 

 https://twitter.com/FieldYates.../1220849912491008000

Kris Richards is available, since the Cowboys didn't retain him after hiring McCarthy.  Don't know, though, if Pettine would be comfortable having a guy who is qualified to immediately replace him on his staff.

Also, Gutey says the Packers looked to add an offensive skill position player but "the opportunities weren't or of sound value" at the in-season deadline.  http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-41090725-4

Last edited by slowmo
DH13 posted:

If we're currently in an "all in" situation for the remainder of AR's contract, you should probably look for a journeyman vet to be QB2 if the intent is to have some insurance if QB1 misses games.  I don't know that Boyle or a draft pick can be counted on in that capacity.

It's fine to draft a guy in the mid to late rounds if the value is there.  But I don't think you could count on that guy to win you some games while AR is out.

Itโ€™s a catch 22.   Vet QBs are not cheap.   

I think we have too many holes to fill to justify spending money on that insurance policy right now.     My preference would be to gamble that AR stays healthy and spend the money on one of our more pressing needs.   DL, ILB, WR.

slowmo posted:

Per ESPN, Packers DB coach Jason Simmons will be leaving the Packers to join the Panthers in the same position.  Somewhat strange, because Simmons has been with the Packers for 9 years in various capacities, and is making a lateral move the Packers could block if they wanted. 

 https://twitter.com/FieldYates.../1220849912491008000

Kris Richards is available, since the Cowboys didn't retain him after hiring McCarthy.  Don't know, though, if Pettine would be comfortable having a guy who is qualified to immediately replace him on his staff.

Also, Gutey says the Packers looked to add an offensive skill position player but "the opportunities weren't or of sound value" at the in-season deadline.  http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-41090725-4

Thatโ€™s a little alarming.   

On one side of the argument, not many of our young guys developed well over the past 9 years.   Jaire has, maybe King, Savage started strong and faded a little.    The list of guys who didnโ€™t develop over 9 years or even played better after leaving is much longer.    Perhaps itโ€™s Pettine and MLF wanting their own guy too.

On the other hand, if you were not sold on him to the point you let him walk, why not shit can him after the season?   That smells like complacency.  

Maybe he "left" because they were being generous about not openly shit canning him.  9 years in one of shittiest defensive schemes?  Bye.  It didn't look like Pettine had much say about coaches under McVince.

The other thing is a 1st time HC will always have issues bringing in experienced position coaches.  It's kind of funny thinking about how Capers came on board when McVince started.  Nobody wanted him after working as a consultant with the Patriots.   The parallel is a bit interesting as well but at minimum Pettine isn't on the cusp of obsolence in the first place.  

I'm sure the overall struggles with building a cohesive staff are part and parcel for newbie coaches and staff.  I can only imagine they're finding out who was actually worth two shits.

Last edited by Henry
Fandame posted:

No to Tua and Stanley. Neither is consistently impressive. I'm looking for someone late in R3 or below who isn't as well-known but at this point shows the potential to be better than Boyle. Rodgers is still capable, and his backup should be a step up from Boyle, but someone that can survive all year on the PS. It's going to take a while to learn MLF's system. Leave Boyle in place next year. 

Yeah, keep kicking the can down the road. That'll work out well.

The time is now to draft AR's replacement.

excalibur posted:
Fandame posted:

No to Tua and Stanley. Neither is consistently impressive. I'm looking for someone late in R3 or below who isn't as well-known but at this point shows the potential to be better than Boyle. Rodgers is still capable, and his backup should be a step up from Boyle, but someone that can survive all year on the PS. It's going to take a while to learn MLF's system. Leave Boyle in place next year. 

Yeah, keep kicking the can down the road. That'll work out well.

The time is now to draft AR's replacement.

Unless a high first round talent drops to the pick, you don't draft a bad prospect just "cuz"

For example - if Tua drops to us, yes, I'd advocate that pick. 

If Burrow, Tua, and Herbert are gone (and they will be), drafting Jake Fromm or any other QB in that slot would be insanely stupid.  

Timpranillo posted:
excalibur posted:
Fandame posted:

No to Tua and Stanley. Neither is consistently impressive. I'm looking for someone late in R3 or below who isn't as well-known but at this point shows the potential to be better than Boyle. Rodgers is still capable, and his backup should be a step up from Boyle, but someone that can survive all year on the PS. It's going to take a while to learn MLF's system. Leave Boyle in place next year. 

Yeah, keep kicking the can down the road. That'll work out well.

The time is now to draft AR's replacement.

Unless a high first round talent drops to the pick, you don't draft a bad prospect just "cuz"

For example - if Tua drops to us, yes, I'd advocate that pick. 

If Burrow, Tua, and Herbert are gone (and they will be), drafting Jake Fromm or any other QB in that slot would be insanely stupid.  

Keep kicking that can down the road then. That is insanely stupid.

 

Last edited by excalibur

Some of my end of season thoughts:

  • Have to say it still burns me incredibly how badly we got beat by SF in all three phases.  Just unbelievable and inexcusable.  Lost my confidence in Pettine.  Hate that as much as weโ€™ve invested in defense over the years, most every one of our playoff losses in the Rodgers era our defense got blown out.  Mind-boggling how that never, ever changes.  And run over by SF much the same way they did to us in 2012.  They beat us in 2013 and now again in 2019.  Hate them.  Hate being outcoached on both sides of the ball.  Hate that we played with such low intensity.  Hate that we blew a plum chance to get back to the Super Bowl, with the kind of health we did โ€“ just like in 2014.  And I hate that as great a season as we had, we got so little out of so many players โ€“ especially high picks like M. Adams, J. Jackson, O. Burks, R. Gary, even D. Savage, but also so disappointed in J. Graham, D. Lowry, MVS, G. Allison.  When you look at that list, it shakes my confidence in Gutekunst.  
  • All that said, I think if we make the right moves and enjoy decent health, we can be very optimistic about 2020.  I think Gutekunst knows what he needs to do, has to take advantage while heโ€™s got Rodgers, be bold, even if he doesnโ€™t have the same draft capital and money to spend in free agency.  I think he must absolutely be bold, think he can be, and I think he will be. 
  • In some ways we (again) seem to have a lot of needs.  But like you and most every Packer fan and writer seem to agree, at the top is adding to the receiving group (WR/TE) and ILB corps.  I would put DE as next most important.  I hope Keke can be the answer at one spot, Lowry can provide depth, but we desperately need a starter we can depend on at the other.  OT depends on resigning Bulaga.  And we need a quality RB to back up Jones.  My best hope and guess is he does similar to what he did last year when he doubled up via free agency and the draft in improving the talent at what he saw then as the top areas needing attention:  OLB (2 Smiths + Gary), at S (Amos + Savage) and at G (Turner + Jenkins). 
  • Based on that, I think heโ€™ll get at least one quality WR/TE and ILB in FA.  I think and hope he'll let Martinez walk, actually get 2 starting ILBs in FA (Littleton and Kwiatkowski/Shobert?) plus a WR.  Can we expect heโ€™d also get a decent starting DE in FA?  Iโ€™m just not sure whatโ€™s realistic.  I do think he has to resign Bulaga so that we arenโ€™t forced this year to spend one of our top 3 picks on an OT.  Hope Veldheer comes back as well.  Bottom line, I just think if we want to get to the Super Bowl next year, we have to be highly active again in Free Agency.  That will be the key. 
  • If we are active and successful in Free Agency, then the draft will be fun.  Double-down at WR since thatโ€™s where the quality and quantity will be?  Thatโ€™d be great.  Grab a dynamic RB to team with Jones?  Shouldnโ€™t be that hard.  A developmental OT?  Realistic.
  • So my tactical focus is all about Free Agency.  Resign Bulaga, let Graham, L. Taylor, Martinez go, re-stock with decent veterans if not stars at those key positions mentioned, then focus on the draft.  Weโ€™ll see.  Will be an exciting off-season.
excalibur posted:

Keep kicking that can down the road then. That is insanely stupid.

 

So, just to be clear, no matter what QBs are available, your position is that GB absolutely MUST draft AR's replacement, and if the best QB left in Round 1 is 4th round talent Jake Fromm; if Nate Stanley is the best QB left on the board, you have no choice... YOU MUST DRAFT AR'S REPLACEMENT! YOU CAN'T KEEP KICKING THAT CAN DOWN THE ROAD.

That's your position?  

Last edited by Timpranillo
excalibur posted:
Timpranillo posted:
excalibur posted:
Fandame posted:

No to Tua and Stanley. Neither is consistently impressive. I'm looking for someone late in R3 or below who isn't as well-known but at this point shows the potential to be better than Boyle. Rodgers is still capable, and his backup should be a step up from Boyle, but someone that can survive all year on the PS. It's going to take a while to learn MLF's system. Leave Boyle in place next year. 

Yeah, keep kicking the can down the road. That'll work out well.

The time is now to draft AR's replacement.

Unless a high first round talent drops to the pick, you don't draft a bad prospect just "cuz"

For example - if Tua drops to us, yes, I'd advocate that pick. 

If Burrow, Tua, and Herbert are gone (and they will be), drafting Jake Fromm or any other QB in that slot would be insanely stupid.  

Keep kicking that can down the road then. That is insanely stupid.

I'm not going to kick the can if the can is full. Nor am I going to trade insane draft capital to get a full can. If the can and its contents are priced right, I'll buy. But there's no need to race to the store to purchase, especially when you don't know if the can can be "THE CAN." 

Looking at the first-round QBs chosen since Rodgers' year (I bolded the ones who I considered mid-tier starters or above; and, except for Jackson, the jury is still out on the 2018 class):

2005: Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell

2006: Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Jay Cutler

2007: JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn

2008: Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco

2009: Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman

2010: Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow

2011: Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder

2012: Andrew Luck, RGIII, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden

2013: EJ Manuel

2014: Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater

2015: Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota

2016: Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Paxton Lynch

2017: Mitch Trubisky, Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson

2018: Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen, Lamar Jackson

2019: Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins

Timpranillo posted:
excalibur posted:

Keep kicking that can down the road then. That is insanely stupid.

 

So, just to be clear, no matter what QBs are available, your position is that GB absolutely MUST draft AR's replacement, and if the best QB left in Round 1 is 4th round talent Jake Fromm; if Nate Stanley is the best QB left on the board, you have no choice... YOU MUST DRAFT AR'S REPLACEMENT! YOU CAN'T KEEP KICKING THAT CAN DOWN THE ROAD.

That's your position?  

 

I never said the future QB must be drafted in the first round.

If not the 2020 draft then it is indeed kicking the can down the road. It seems to be your position, and others on the board, that they can keep putting this off indefinitely.

If they like someone and they need to trade up to get him then they should do it. Otherwise, this will become a mess.

Last edited by excalibur
Fandame posted:
excalibur posted:
Timpranillo posted:
excalibur posted:
Fandame posted:

No to Tua and Stanley. Neither is consistently impressive. I'm looking for someone late in R3 or below who isn't as well-known but at this point shows the potential to be better than Boyle. Rodgers is still capable, and his backup should be a step up from Boyle, but someone that can survive all year on the PS. It's going to take a while to learn MLF's system. Leave Boyle in place next year. 

Yeah, keep kicking the can down the road. That'll work out well.

The time is now to draft AR's replacement.

Unless a high first round talent drops to the pick, you don't draft a bad prospect just "cuz"

For example - if Tua drops to us, yes, I'd advocate that pick. 

If Burrow, Tua, and Herbert are gone (and they will be), drafting Jake Fromm or any other QB in that slot would be insanely stupid.  

Keep kicking that can down the road then. That is insanely stupid.

I'm not going to kick the can if the can is full. Nor am I going to trade insane draft capital to get a full can. If the can and its contents are priced right, I'll buy. But there's no need to race to the store to purchase, especially when you don't know if the can can be "THE CAN." 

Looking at the first-round QBs chosen since Rodgers' year (I bolded the ones who I considered mid-tier starters or above; and, except for Jackson, the jury is still out on the 2018 class):

2005: Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell

2006: Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Jay Cutler

2007: JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn

2008: Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco

2009: Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman

2010: Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow

2011: Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder

2012: Andrew Luck, RGIII, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden

2013: EJ Manuel

2014: Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater

2015: Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota

2016: Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Paxton Lynch

2017: Mitch Trubisky, Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson

2018: Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen, Lamar Jackson

2019: Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins

And this proves what? AR as our QB at 50!

Last edited by excalibur