Skip to main content

Link

Bill from Bloomfield Hills, MI

Baseball advance metrics have totally changed pitcher usage, going for home runs and other elements of the game. I keep seeing analytics that say a football team comes out ahead by going for it on every fourth down no matter the down/distance/field position, and perhaps going for two points most every time. If those things happened, do you think it would be good for the game and would you enjoy games more?

Eliminating decisions and strategy wouldn’t help me enjoy the games more, but to each his own. I’ve been intrigued by the fourth-down analytics, because it’ll never sit right with me that going for it on fourth-and-10 from your own 20 is the “best” move, when failure hands the opponent three sure points and a great chance at seven (or eight). Go for it more around midfield? Sure, I get it. But the analytics say to do it all the time, and to me, the biggest thing they don’t take into account is momentum. Yes, it’s an ethereal concept, but I believe it exists in an emotionally charged game like football. I’ve seen it too often to be persuaded otherwise, and I think a fourth-down stop deep in one’s territory that gifts a field goal or touchdown to the opponent means more than just the points. That’s why, even as someone who loves and understands math, I don’t buy the fourth-down analytics in their pure form and probably never will.

I think the flaw in the logic of "going for it" every 4th down is that every other team will continue to play the same way they always have when you change up your strategy.  I do believe that NFL coaches are overly conservative with 4th down, but since everyone is conservative, it really is a wash.  As soon as you switch it up just the same and the advantage (if there is one) is gone.  

This question reminded me of how Paul Chryst punts from his own side of the field all the time, which takes me to this article.  Thanks to this guys work (and his call on "availability heuristic" is spot on), you can see the calls on punts were, in general, the right call.  Doesn't make some of those punts (FROM YOUR OWN 32!!!!) horribly frustrating, even if your kicker can barely walk.  

"Rocket Fuel malt liquor. Damn!"

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

I also do agree that you should go for it on 4th down almost 100% of the time that you are further than your own 40. And you should avoid punting 100% of the time in opposing teams side of the field

El-Ka-Bong posted:

I put mustard and ketchup on my brats

I put Secret Stadium Sauce on mine. 

Go for it on 4th. 100% of the time in opponents territory.

Last edited by Boris

There are numbers, analytics,computers, and Lord knows what else...then there is football.
I would much rather play to the situation. 
For example, I wouldn't pass up a chip shot FG to attempt a 4th down conversion just outside an opponent's red zone, just because analytics or stats 'says' go for it.

Yards needed to convert, field position, and many more variables have to factor into that decision as well.

There's nothing wrong with trying to pin an opponent deep, either. Making them start drives anywhere within their 10 yard line against a stout defense may flip field position, at worst.

Fedya posted:

Oh goody!  We can hash out the 2003 playoff game against Philly again! 

Mike Sherman..... the worst in game coach I have ever seen.

I think it was the 2001 playoffs v SF where he made the worst single sideline decision I think I have ever seen at any level of football.

Imagine this: The head coach of an NFL team, called for a 2 point conversion attempt when his team had just scored to take an 8 point lead. The PAT would have made it 9 and a two score advantage. But the teacher Mike Sherman ( He couldn't have been a math teacher could he??) went for it!

To make matters worse the Packers didn't convert. SF scores a TD and Mariucci rightly goes for two and ties the game. I wish I could swear in these threads because that crap still makes my blood boil. Harlan should have fired him on the spot!

Or maybe GM Sherman could have fired himself before he traded up for a punter! that would have shown self awareness. But after the game he defended the move!I am still in total disbelief.

Timpranillo posted:

I gotta be honest. I loved Secret Stadium Sauce growing up. Last summer when I tried it at Miller, it was quite underwhelming.  Whether they changed or my tastes changed, I don't know...

Dude. Msg your contact info and I’ll send you a bottle of it. Stellar stuff. Anybody else out there I’ll send you one as well. When I lived in AZ I seriously missed that SSS. 

AtTheMurph posted:
Fedya posted:

Oh goody!  We can hash out the 2003 playoff game against Philly again! 

Mike Sherman..... the worst in game coach I have ever seen.

I think it was the 2001 playoffs v SF where he made the worst single sideline decision I think I have ever seen at any level of football.

Imagine this: The head coach of an NFL team, called for a 2 point conversion attempt when his team had just scored to take an 8 point lead. The PAT would have made it 9 and a two score advantage. But the teacher Mike Sherman ( He couldn't have been a math teacher could he??) went for it!

To make matters worse the Packers didn't convert. SF scores a TD and Mariucci rightly goes for two and ties the game. I wish I could swear in these threads because that crap still makes my blood boil. Harlan should have fired him on the spot!

Or maybe GM Sherman could have fired himself before he traded up for a punter! that would have shown self awareness. But after the game he defended the move!I am still in total disbelief.

I swear. If I saw Mike Sherman in public, I’d walk right up to him and punch him in the face. Total dipsh!t. 

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×