Gutey and Wide Receiver

El-Nuke-the-Hurricanes-Bong posted:

phaedrus posted:

He drafted WR's in rounds 4, 5, and 6.  If the consensus is that wideouts drafted that late cannot be bonafide #1 or #2 wideouts, he absolutely wasted three draft choices.

Where in thin air did you find this consensus?  

There are some later round guys who perform at WR, but usually they are top 3 round guys. And that's simply because it is so hard to find a guy who can run really fast, catch really well and is smart enough to pick up the pro passing game and can think on his feet a little.

But that's like any other skill position. The best QBs, CB's, pass rushers, and TEs are usually first three round guys. But you only need one later round guy to blossom to make a huge difference.

I like MVS. Size, speed and pretty good hands and from reports wants to be good. He's the anti -J'Mon Moore = not a head case. ESB showed some skill but doesn't have that speed.

And there is no such consensus ever. Otherwise 4,5,6 round would ever see a WR drafted. What should make you more upset is that Tyreek Hill was drafted 2 spots after Trevor Davis (not withstanding the child abuse stuff).

Dez wants to sign with the Packers.

I'd explore that option.  

Unlike TT (most of the time), it doesn't seem like Gutekunst would be adverse to improving the quality of play at a position via free agency.  And I'm not talking about adding a top tier WR (that will cost a ton).  They already have an elite WR.  So he can certainly find quality proven pieces to compliment Davante.  So drafting at WR is not necessarily a must, regardless of how this year's #2s pan out.

Henry posted:

Dez wants to sign with the Packers.

But, but, the history! The non catch, catch!

I'd kick the tires on Dez.

and then pour sugar in the gas tank of that rusted ol' bucket 

Good breakdown by  Dusty All 22 on twitter of last week's 3rd downs that weren't converted.  He basically shows that even if AR hadn't been pressured and sacked, nobody was open to convert.  Not a good sign of "schemeing WR's open" by MLF.  I can only hope once the other parts of the offense start clicking, the passing lanes and coverage will start to open up.  But at this point it doesn't look like the pass will be setting up the run in any way.

https://twitter.com/All22Talk

I think part of the problem is the early down failures leading to 3rd and long.  Some of that is on AR not taking check downs or easy yards.  Some of it is on the run game not finding much room yet.  It was against a top D last week but the offense felt a lot like much of last season in that any ground gained felt like a real grind.  AR and MM's O had more success in the second half of last year's opener vs. the same D.

Smurfs on week one:

1. Ross - 158 yards

2. D. Jackson - 154 yards

3. M. Brown - 147 yards

4. J. Brown - 123 yards

5. C. Samuel - 114 yards

6. D. Amendola - 104 yards

7. J. Crowder - 99 yards

8. P. Dorsett - 94 yards

9. TY Hilton - 87 yards

10. E. Sanders - 86 yards

11. J. Edelman - 83 yards

12. O. Beckham - 71 yards

13. R. Cobb - 69 yards

Just under 1/2 of league's top 50 WR's for week one are under 6' tall. And they most definitely are not 1/2 of all starters. They overachieve because they get open way more often. They have an advantage in that they quicker in the space around their bodies, so they separate a higher percentage of the time. 

The Packers are being stupid. Why? Why revel in being moronic?

Years ago I said if a WR talent evaluator uses the word "upside", fire him. If he uses the words "ideal size", fire him. If he says a player would make a good slot WR, fire him. Go to the draft section of NFL.com. Those things are said a zillion times.

Troy Brown goes to the Marshall football reunions. He holds his hands way above his head. Why? To show Randy Moss what Super Bowl rings look like. 

DH13 posted:

Not a good sign of "schemeing WR's open" by MLF.

Because that's only 50% of the story with how receivers get open. Players have to actually, ya know, play and get open. There's no magic trick that coaches do to get receivers open, all players are responsible for winning 1on1 battles. 

Johnny Z:
Troy Brown goes to the Marshall football reunions. He holds his hands way above his head. Why? To show Randy Moss what Super Bowl rings look like. 

And your point is?

Johnny Z posted:

Troy Brown goes to the Marshall football reunions. He holds his hands way above his head. Why? To show Randy Moss what Super Bowl rings look like. 

And Randy Moss is 10000x the WR that Troy Brown was. 

Johnny Z posted:

Smurfs on week one:

1. Ross - 158 yards

2. D. Jackson - 154 yards

3. M. Brown - 147 yards

4. J. Brown - 123 yards

5. C. Samuel - 114 yards

6. D. Amendola - 104 yards

7. J. Crowder - 99 yards

8. P. Dorsett - 94 yards

9. TY Hilton - 87 yards

10. E. Sanders - 86 yards

11. J. Edelman - 83 yards

12. O. Beckham - 71 yards

13. R. Cobb - 69 yards

Wow. Great stats! 1 whole week of data!  Well, correction. 1 whole week of incomplete data. 

But, to placate this, of the top 10 WRs in yards in week one, 7 are >6'0". 1 of the 3 that were under 6, is 5'11.

But, hey, small sample size (NO PUN INTENDED!). Let's look at 2018 as a whole.

Of the top 10 WRs in terms of yards, again, 7 of them were over 6.

Why, it's almost like height has ZERO to do with anything, and you're just a guy looking for the data to confirm the argument you want, instead of, you know, looking at the data and then making an argument.

Johnny Z posted:

Smurfs on week one:

1. Ross - 158 yards

Just under 1/2 of league's top 50 WR's for week one are under 6' tall. And they most definitely are not 1/2 of all starters. They overachieve because they get open way more often. They have an advantage in that they quicker in the space around their bodies, so they separate a higher percentage of the time. 

Ah yes. John Ross, the shining example of how WRs under 6'0" overachieve. Clearly John Ross, 9th pick overall in 2017, has done nothing but overachieve his NFL career. Gets way open all the time! Quicker in space! Separation!  

What he's done his career clearly shows that. And by no means should one look at Sunday's game as a fluke because AJ Green is out and a defense focused on Tyler Boyd. Take a look!

2017 - 0 catches, 0 yards (I mean sure, Marvin Lewis said he wasn't ready to contribute, and only played him in 3 games, but what more would you expect from a top 10 pick? OVERACHIEVE)

2018 - 21 catches, 210 yards (He must have been separating so much from DBs that he ended up out of bounds or something! OVERACHIEVE)

Tell ya what, you can have overachieving smurf John Ross the rest of the year. I'll take 6'4" AJ Green.  Most receiving yards in 2019.  

$100 to the charity of the winners choice.  Should be a slam dunk for you right? I mean, it's not as simple as "Hey, good WRs are good", and the most important factor is whether or not a WR is under or over 6'0".  

Easiest $100 you've even made. Not only am I taking a dum dum 6'4" WR, but one that may not even play until week 4 or 5!  

You in? 

Grave Digger posted:

DH13 posted:

Not a good sign of "schemeing WR's open" by MLF.

Because that's only 50% of the story with how receivers get open. Players have to actually, ya know, play and get open. There's no magic trick that coaches do to get receivers open, all players are responsible for winning 1on1 battles. 

Scheming is 50%, Players playing is 50%. And the Bears D might have been the other 50% in the 1st game. - Yogi

Wait.

That's like 125%.

When you get to the fork in the road...  take it.

Scheming is 90% mental. The other half is height. 

I'm not sure I'm tall enough for this conversation.

phaedrus posted:

Johnny Z:
if Troy Brown goes to the Marshall football if reunions. He holds his if hands way above his head. Why? If? To show Randy Moss what Super if Bowl rings look like. 

And your point is?

he did say "if"

YATittle posted:

I'm not sure I'm tall enough for this conversation.

I'm not sure you're tall enough to like everybody's posts.

Fedya posted:

YATittle posted:

I'm not sure I'm tall enough for this conversation.

I'm not sure you're tall enough to like everybody's posts.

I AM!

Today Antonio "kavaNAUGHTY" Brown could be starting for the Packers.

Johnny Z posted:

Today Antonio "kavaNAUGHTY" Brown could be starting for the Packers.

 

Nope. He's not "Packer People."   Plus he is too short.