Gutey and Wide Receiver

Yeah, we could have had a first round WR like Treadwell. 

I'm less concerned about their draft slot vs production.

Graham, MVS and Allison are competent contributors in the passing game. Gute had positions, like OLB, that had very few to no competent players at when he took over. Gotta prioritize the rebuild, picking a WR high just wasn't a bad enough need to overshadow OLB, CB, and S in the draft and OLB, S, and OL in FA. I expect, now that we're solid at almost all those positions that WR will be up for a refresh in the 2020 draft. I think OT and CB (depending on how King and Jackson develop) are bigger needs, but WR should definitely be in the discussion for R1 or R2. 2020 will be a STACKED year at WR, so I have no doubt we will come out of the draft with a starter opposite Adams.  

Like GD said, we had higher priorities like OLB, S and OL.  What I am encouraged about is Gutes picks/free agents are looking very solid so far.  Scott almost singlehandedly won us the Chicago game.

I am sure he will address WR, Rome wasn't built in a day.  

Phaedrus, no disrespect but I totally disagree that Gute doesn't know what he is doing.  The roster he inherited lacked depth everywhere and it was in desperate need of geting help on the defensive side of the ball.   I would bet that on his way to early draft board WR is listed pretty high on the priority list.  The dude is aggressive and we are just going to have to be patient sometimes.  It sucks I agree but he can't build it all at once.

Tyreek Hill, Stefon Diggs, Adam Thielen, Keenan Allen, TJ Hilton, and Antonio Brown would like a word with you.

Paging Donald Driver! 

The Heckler posted:

Phaedrus, no disrespect but I totally disagree that Gute doesn't know what he is doing.  The roster he inherited lacked depth everywhere and it was in desperate need of geting help on the defensive side of the ball.   I would bet that on his way to early draft board WR is listed pretty high on the priority list.  The dude is aggressive and we are just going to have to be patient sometimes.  It sucks I agree but he can't build it all at once.

 

Hey Heckler,

I am on the side of believing he does know what he is doing.  My point was that if his strategy is that he is pretty sure none of the 3 WR's would amount to much (at least one being at least a 2), THEN it's poor use of draft.

I’m on the side of not giving a shit because it’s year two.  

I fully expect that MVS will be a legit #2 this year as he continues to learn to play to his speed.

Me too, I hope that comes soon.

I'm on record as saying they need to invest some draft capital to get a complement for Adams - I think they really need a slot receiver in the mold of what a healthy Cobb would be.

However, I think it may be less important to try to have high-level draft picks at WR in the MLF offense compared to MM. MM relied on guys to win 1 x 1 matchups and didn't really scheme guys open. That works when you invest high round picks at WR and have a lot of depth to force the dime and  nickel CBs to cover guys who are more physically talented (Nelson, Jennings, and Cobb were all round 2 and James Jones and Finley were round 3). Driver was a 7th rounder, but mainly because he was more of a track guy in college. He was a tremendous athlete that had to learn how to play football. Driver jumped 7'6" in the high jump. The guys we have now behind Adams are not the athletic freak that Driver was,  but if you scheme guys open better you can get by with low and mid-round guys. 

As long as Gute sticks to his board and doesn't draft guys to high because of need, I think he'll do well. 

I'd like to see Kumerow get some snaps before anyone starts trading away draft capital. 

Agree on Kumerow.  What does that kid have to do to get some playing time?

More Kumerow.  More Tonyan.  More Jones. 

It's been 1 game. On the road. Against a division opponent. Who has a top 5 D. With another game coming up against a division opponent. 

I doubt they emptied the cupboard in week 1.

I fully expect lots of reps for Kumerow, Tonyan, Jones as the season progresses. 

Where will Vikings D end up? I'd guess top 10 is a good bet.

I don't know. ATL outgained them and held TOP. The difference in the game was the ATL miscues - blocked punt and turnovers.

phaedrus posted:

He drafted WR's in rounds 4, 5, and 6.  If the consensus is that wideouts drafted that late cannot be bonafide #1 or #2 wideouts, he absolutely wasted three draft choices.

Where in thin air did you find this consensus?  

El-Nuke-the-Hurricanes-Bong posted:

phaedrus posted:

He drafted WR's in rounds 4, 5, and 6.  If the consensus is that wideouts drafted that late cannot be bonafide #1 or #2 wideouts, he absolutely wasted three draft choices.

Where in thin air did you find this consensus?  

It is a hypothetical (notice the word if).

Don’t trip while you back track.

Antonio Brown was a 5th round draft pick.

You can find football players at any round of the draft including UDFA

If the consensus is wide receivers should be shorter than 5 foot tall, did Gutey make a mistake not drafting Danny DeVito?  

Bilbo down the seam.

Short, fat, hairy . . .

El-Nuke-the-Hurricanes-Bong posted:

If the consensus is wide receivers should be shorter than 5 foot tall, did Gutey make a mistake not drafting Danny DeVito?  

DeVito has no upside.

Shouldn’t Devito be on the taxi squad?

Know a lot more about where the team is at WR after the year. If none of the players behind Adams steps up then obviously it's going to be a relatively high priority to address. 

It's a high priority to address today. 

Hopefully 1 or 2 of the young guys can step up. 

Rodgers isn't getting any younger.

Pikes Peak posted:

El-Nuke-the-Hurricanes-Bong posted:

If the consensus is wide receivers should be shorter than 5 foot tall, did Gutey make a mistake not drafting Danny DeVito?  

DeVito has no upside.

But a lot of backside.

Boris posted:

It's a high priority to address today. 

Hopefully 1 or 2 of the young guys can step up. 

Yup. Have high hopes for MVS to step up his game. As for the 3, 4, 5 ... seem ok there. 

As with the rest of the new offense, will probably take a few weeks to settle in ....and playing tough defenses like the Bears and Minny in wk 1 and wk 2 doesn't expedite the process. 

Seeing Allan Robinson the other night reminded me of when he chose the Bares over the Pack. Damn, he sure would be a nice second fiddle to Davante . 

Boris posted:

Antonio Brown was a 5th round draft pick.

You can find football players at any round of the draft including UDFA

The odds of finding a good one are a lot higher in the early rounds  

The upside to Danny DiVito is that no other man has to sleep with Rhea Pearlman.

heyward posted:

Boris posted:

Antonio Brown was a 5th round draft pick.

You can find football players at any round of the draft including UDFA

The odds of finding a good one are a lot higher in the early rounds  

Lots of high round busts at that position.

Of the top 50 WRs in receptions in 2018 the average round drafted was 3. Unless there's a game changer like Julio Jones or OBJ available in R1, it appears to be wiser to wait until Day 2 to draft a starting WR. 

OBJ is so good he got traded to Cleveland and likes to where a 190k watch while playing.

justanotherpackerfan posted:

Shouldn’t Devito be on the taxi squad?

That's where you drop the mike and never post again.

At least he's not bitching about people liking his posts.

That’s something you never need to worry about.

And yet my post has a like. 

It was from Jaymo.

Packers haven't drafted a productive WR after the 3rd round this century. They are 0 for 15 with the jury still out on MVS. 

El-Nuke-the-Hurricanes-Bong posted:

phaedrus posted:

He drafted WR's in rounds 4, 5, and 6.  If the consensus is that wideouts drafted that late cannot be bonafide #1 or #2 wideouts, he absolutely wasted three draft choices.

Where in thin air did you find this consensus?  

There are some later round guys who perform at WR, but usually they are top 3 round guys. And that's simply because it is so hard to find a guy who can run really fast, catch really well and is smart enough to pick up the pro passing game and can think on his feet a little.

But that's like any other skill position. The best QBs, CB's, pass rushers, and TEs are usually first three round guys. But you only need one later round guy to blossom to make a huge difference.

I like MVS. Size, speed and pretty good hands and from reports wants to be good. He's the anti -J'Mon Moore = not a head case. ESB showed some skill but doesn't have that speed.

And there is no such consensus ever. Otherwise 4,5,6 round would ever see a WR drafted. What should make you more upset is that Tyreek Hill was drafted 2 spots after Trevor Davis (not withstanding the child abuse stuff).

Dez wants to sign with the Packers.

I'd explore that option.  

Unlike TT (most of the time), it doesn't seem like Gutekunst would be adverse to improving the quality of play at a position via free agency.  And I'm not talking about adding a top tier WR (that will cost a ton).  They already have an elite WR.  So he can certainly find quality proven pieces to compliment Davante.  So drafting at WR is not necessarily a must, regardless of how this year's #2s pan out.

Henry posted:

Dez wants to sign with the Packers.

But, but, the history! The non catch, catch!

I'd kick the tires on Dez.

and then pour sugar in the gas tank of that rusted ol' bucket 

Good breakdown by  Dusty All 22 on twitter of last week's 3rd downs that weren't converted.  He basically shows that even if AR hadn't been pressured and sacked, nobody was open to convert.  Not a good sign of "schemeing WR's open" by MLF.  I can only hope once the other parts of the offense start clicking, the passing lanes and coverage will start to open up.  But at this point it doesn't look like the pass will be setting up the run in any way.

https://twitter.com/All22Talk

I think part of the problem is the early down failures leading to 3rd and long.  Some of that is on AR not taking check downs or easy yards.  Some of it is on the run game not finding much room yet.  It was against a top D last week but the offense felt a lot like much of last season in that any ground gained felt like a real grind.  AR and MM's O had more success in the second half of last year's opener vs. the same D.