McCarthy has his flaws, for sure. But given the lack of quality HC candidates and current head coaches, I think he is going to be a strong candidate for open positions next year. I'm sure he's also had sufficient time to self-reflect and learn from mistakes and adapt/change. The Packers needed a change and so did he. If guys like Arians, Gase were candidates last year with so-so to awful records, how can MM not be next year?
Hungry5 posted:MM got Favre to do film study like he never had before and the result was one of Favre's better seasons (2007).
Early in his career MM used lots of different packages. To me, over time he got enamored with Rdogers unbelievable deep accuracy and wanted the highlight plays. He and Rodgers needed the change.
Again, has MM learned from his past? That's what I'd want to dig into if I were a GM interviewing him.
My opinion runs very closely to yours.
Something MM said early in the Rodgers years was that Aaron was able to drive the ball down the field unlike anyone he had seen. Better than Favre. He designed an offense around that and had some good WRs who could make that work.
As the talent on the squad changed through attrition I think MM always fell back towards that, ARod can drive the ball down the field decision and the offense never really changed because of it.
McCarthy never embraced crossing patterns. He never embraced legal picks. He never schemed to get first downs and control the clock. He wanted those big drive the ball down the field plays and he got them for much of his time in GB.
But as the WR/TE/RB talent changed his scheme became the noose around his neck. No longer could he sit back and say he didn't give a shit what defenses did because he had the QB and the WR who could beat the coverage if you told them what you were going to run. Then he had the QB who could do it but not the WR and everything collapsed.
I complained for years that GBs passing game was nothing more than throwing the ball outside the numbers. I used to keep track of the plays where passes were thrown in the middle of the field and it wasn't many, especially when the game was on the line. Nearly every pass was along the sidelines. Defenses never had to defend the whole field, just the outside 3rds.
I still think the reason is that McCarthy went through the decision process and still came to the same place because he had Rodgers. If he didn't he may have been a different coach.
I'm hoping to run into him in FL when I'm down there. He has a place in the same area (so does John Fox and Urlacher who is right around the corner from me. John Boehner does too. I think this is where he hits the tanning bed.)
I can’t imagine anyone ever hiring that moron. If someone does hopefully it’s Minnesota.
50k Club posted:McCarthy has his flaws, for sure. But given the lack of quality HC candidates and current head coaches, I think he is going to be a strong candidate for open positions next year. I'm sure he's also had sufficient time to self-reflect and learn from mistakes and adapt/change. The Packers needed a change and so did he. If guys like Arians, Gase were candidates last year with so-so to awful records, how can MM not be next year?
That’s a really good point. A retread loser like Gase gets opportunities and he’s accomplished nothing...he’s barely accomplished as an OC. McCarthy actually has a resume. I think about a guy like Mike Shannahan, he ran into a similar situation in Denver (won a lot and then struggled to adapt) and found a new home in Washington pretty quick. The only thing keeping MM from finding a new job will be MM wanting to coach again. He doesn’t have the appeal of a young up and comer, but a team like Washington or Cleveland would love his resume compared to what he would replace.
SteveLuke posted:Hungry5 posted:I also think his hiring will hang heavily on coaches he would want on his staff. He's a Super Bowl winning coach. He'll be a top candidate when Black Monday hits the NFL on December 30th.
MM's last offensive coordinator Joe Philbin is not currently employed by an NFL team.
His long, long-time defensive coordinator Dom Capers, after being out of the NFL in 2018, is a lowly consultant in Jacksonville.
MM's Associate Head Coach for much of his time in GB Winston Moss is not working in the NFL.
His last 2 special teams coordinators, Zook and Slocum, are not coaching in the NFL.
MM's final QB coach, Frank Cignetti, is also without an NFL job.
MM could seemingly get his old GB coaching staff back together without much effort.
So, you are saying Cleveland will have the best damned coaching staff in the NFL next year?
Grave Digger posted:He just burned out and stopped grinding, I think the only beef Rodgers had with him is that. He won’t get a shot until teams believe he’s ready to grind again. He might be enjoying his life away from football, maybe his brother dying and his kids growing up made him take stock of what’s important and grinding like coaches do wasnt it. If that’s the case I wish he would have figured things out sooner and walked away before he had to be fired. Definitely a sad end to a quality legacy in GB.
WRT his staff, we still have a few of those guys who are on staff and several others scattered around the league.
A man gets a massage once in a while every Wednesday
YATittle posted:WRT his staff, we still have a few of those guys who are on staff and several others scattered around the league.
Not many.
19 actually are still in the league. 25 coaches he had on staff overall are still coaching...5 are still in GB, 4 are at colleges, 2 are in the XFL, and 14 are still in the NFL. For a guy who was so loyal and stubborn about his assistants, without a ton of turnover, that seems like a pretty normal number. There are obvious ones we think about that stand out (coordinators and guys who became HC's), but in general I would guess his staffs were on par with other coaches. He wasn't exceptionally bad at finding guys, but he wasn't great either. It's a fraternity, everyone recycles the same guys.
Pikes Peak posted:Boris posted:Going to be interesting to see what happens in Cleveland. Kitchens is obviously in over his head.
Does MM even want to coach again? Was Kitchens forced on Dorsey? Or was he on board with it?
If you're not willing to change with the times, you're destined to fail.
Would he want to coach up Baker? Can anyone?
I like the kids skills but not sure he listens to anyone.
God that would be such a disaster. He had trouble with Rodgers. Mayfield is Rodgers with ADHD.
He should be studying Andy Reid very closely. Figure out what he's done over the years to continue to be successful instead of running the same shit that he had with Donovan McNabb. There's no reason that he couldn't be another Andy Reid unless MM was just a product of having Favre and Rodgers at QB.
Mayfield shouldn't be included in the same sentence.
I don't mean in terms of talent, just in being coach-able.
For talent he's somewhere between Johnny Football and the Packers Jesus in Cleats.
Mayfield is somehow already advanced his career to being early-2000's Brett Favre. He has the swagger of a QB that has accomplished something and a coach that just does whatever he wants with no argument. McCarthy got that guy under control for like 2 years before he had enough and pushed for Rodgers to take over. I think the same would be true for Cleveland, MM would reign him in for a couple years, playing good football, and then it would spiral and MM would lose the power struggle.
Pittsburgh is a more likely destination for MM depending on what they do at QB. MM and Gardner Minshew in JAX would actually be a fun combination. I see more Aaron Rodgers in Minshew than any of the other young QBs in the league.
Given the success of McVay, Shanahan and now MLF you are going to see more teams taking risks on younger unknowns. Everyone is going want the next McVay, even if it means they may land a Kliff Dingleberry in the process.
Speaking of Mayfield..... http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=27967059
Baker Mayfield is Ryan Leaf without the expediency of social media. You are great before everyone knows you aren’t.
Chongo posted:The game has changed. There is less and less tolerance for Pittsburgh Macho by players and fans.
People will point to Belicheat as someone from the old school who has been successful using old school macho. I call bullshit. Don't confuse toughness and old school mentality for macho. Macho is a refusal to change and evolve.
"We do what we do."
Belicheat has shown throughout his career that he is willing to change, evolve and grow and he possesses the rare combination of being able to hire really well, and evaluate talent really well. McVince brought us coaching All-Stars like Winston Moss, Shawn Slocum, Ron Zook and Frank "The Stank" Cignetti.
I call B.S. to your B.S. ...it really comes down to love. Many ways to get that but it usually some type of tough love which never goes out of style with humans.
Back in the day...the players loved Lombardi...they would have followed him anywhere because they believed him and loved him.
Belichek does it in a quite similar manner.
Big Tuna did it with love.
Holmgren did it on the upswing but didn't have the character to hold it when times got good. Reggie could see it...that's why he shocked the world and wanted to get it on it.
Tomlin has "it" whatever it is.
MiLF seems to have it right out of the gate...a good sign. But we'll see what happens when things turn bad...as they always do. I see players with a sparkle in their eye on offense and defense.
MM presided over one of the worst offenses in the NFL at SF before coming to the Packers. In SF he had Alex Smith who was a rookie, so we will never know if MM could get him to play well. He had Favre and Rodgers in GB - which help a lot. He also changed his player integration over time. At first young guys would get more TC reps to get up to speed quickly. The vets and 2nd-3rd year guys got less reps in TC - early on in TC especially. They got more the closer they got to the end of TC. When that changed it took longer to get players up to speed. At WR that started with Jordy Nelson's 4 year development. Adams took longer too. There are some players we will never really know about for the lack of a real opportunity. I think a blessing in disguise last year was the injuries that forced young guys to get meaningful playing time. It has paid off this year.
Jesus? Is Reischel reading x4 too? Articles in Forbes based off X4 threads?
The topic, headline, and contents are a lot of coincidences.
michiganjoe posted:Most damning indictment of MM to me has always been the performance of the team in the absence of AR. Compare and contrast that to Sean Payton and the Saints with Teddy Bridgewater this year.....
This is exactly the point. Absence a HOF QB, he's the OC of a 2-14 offense. That doesn't excuse the lack of talent on defense but HIS offense with a lot of talent besides Rodgers fucking stunk.
Henry posted:Do "they" secretly dwell among us?
Hold me.
If you only knew Henry...it's a Deep State Cover and I glean many ideas from here.
This place is quite special that way. A lot of free range a-holes to fight through but it serves it's purpose as an idea chamber for articles.
Have a nice day...King of the free range
Again, I have to ask, did anyone shoot his dog yet?
No, but I shit on his lawn in the middle of the day.
Think X4 should send a bill to Forbes for the info they obviously gleaned from us?
Looks like Big Mac is priming himself for a run at another Lombardi.
Dear God... please build a similar staff that was in GB and take over a NFC Norris team.
I just have this feeling he'll be in Washington. Could be Atlanta because they have an established QB -- but my prediction is Washington.
Pakrz posted:Dear God... please build a similar staff that was in GB and take over a NFC Norris team.
Please, please, please, please bring Winston Moss with him.
It's too bad the Vikings have turned things around. McCarthy taking over for Ol' One Eye would have been outstanding.
I find it interesting that the Jets were pursuing McCarthy pretty heavily and MM had some differences of opinion that led to a poor fit. I do not see how MM could have survived with NY media.
MM to the Browns makes so much sense, but that would mean Dorsey would have to readily admit his mistake.
I'm not certain Dorsey was 100% the reason that Kitchens is HC. Maybe....I don't know the ins & outs of the Factory of Sadness
Has Packers' early success diminished MM's stock?
Not as much as his own inability to win without a QB playing at a HoF level. In those circumstances, the Packers were chasing mediocrity.
grignon posted:Has Packers' early success diminished MM's stock?
Not as much as his own inability to win without a QB playing at a HoF level. In those circumstances, the Packers were chasing mediocrity.
Yeah, not like Sean Payton or Bill Bellichick.