Of the firing of Michael John McCarthy as the head football coach of the Green Bay Packers?
Wasn't there a contingent of "careful what you wish for" Packer fans who insisted that the Pack might take a big step back if they dared to move on from the self-described "highly successful" football coach?
Wonder if there is anyone left who (a) thinks firing McCarthy was the wrong move or (b) does not think that the firing was long overdue.
Go Seahawks!
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One may not want to kick a horse that's been dead this long. At least don't be barefoot.
By laughing at certain piss-ants. No, not the former head coach.
I'm just doing what I do.
I am man enough to admit at first I was in the "careful what you wish for" crowd.
Now? I have moved on and have totally forgotten about it and now its time to concentrate on the 2019 edition of the Packers.
I lit a candle. then liked it.
I re-watched the Seattle playoff choke so I could truly appreciate the dismissal.
By the time all is said and done, Matt LaFluer is looking at what is likely to be a 6-7 game swing in wins taking this team to either 12-4 or 13-3. That is a incredible turn around for ANY coach to do in a single year, much less a rookie one. And it makes forgetting MM all that much easier.
I am also not convinced Angry Bald Man is here in 2020. Gutenheimer has spent a shit load of FA money and the Packers have invested a ton of draft capitol on the defense. He has 6 players on his defense that are either 1st or 2nd round picks.
It would not at all shock me if MLF moved on from Pettine. MLF see's what is going on in SF and best believe his best buddies in SF are also in his ear about what they think of GB's defense. And unlike MM, MLF does not appear to be a HC who will hang on to assistants because they are "yes" men to him or because they are friends. A big contrast to McVince as well.
I think we need to replace Special Teams coach much more than we need to replace Angry Bald Man.
Lets see how the D performs in the playoffs under Pettine before talking about if he should go or not.
We are coming off a game where we surrendered only 13 and took it away 3 times. That would be our 5th game that we surrendered less than 20, one with 22 and another with 24. Yes, those didn't come against elite QB's, but not many teams are holding teams with elite QB's under 20. It's happened to the Packers, with a 1rsst year offense, only twice this year.
Really? All happy that McCarthy got booted, eh? Was it time for him to go, sure.....but seriously. He brought us a Super Bowl title. So did Dom. Say what you want but you fuckers are all Rong about him. Be happy with what you have & that's a 4th Super Bowl title. Celebrate that, because that's what I look at....not all the negative bullshit.
Coaches usually have a shelf life of 8-10 years in the NFL. The guy has a street named after him. STFU & enjoy the season
That attitude will definitely not improve your social media score.
Rong. A competent coach would lead the best QB, statistically speaking, to more than 1 Super Bowl appearance.
Rodgers bailed out MM numerous times in the playoffs. It was a rare, if ever, for MM's game plan or game mgt to contribute to the success. It was a hindrance that Rodgers would overcome.
Boris posted:Really? All happy that McCarthy got booted, eh? Was it time for him to go, sure.....but seriously. He brought us a Super Bowl title. So did Dom. Say what you want but you fuckers are all Rong about him. Be happy with what you have & that's a 4th Super Bowl title. Celebrate that, because that's what I look at....not all the negative bullshit.
Coaches usually have a shelf life of 8-10 years in the NFL. The guy has a street named after him. STFU & enjoy the season
Trees have streets named after them.
ammo posted:I think we need to replace Special Teams coach much more than we need to replace Angry Bald Man.
Maybe they should try no ST coach. Wait, hasn't that been what they've been doing for almost a decade?
Being as bad as they've been on ST takes a particular kind of guiding hand. A driverless bus would do less damage.
Pikes Peak posted:Boris posted:Really? All happy that McCarthy got booted, eh? Was it time for him to go, sure.....but seriously. He brought us a Super Bowl title. So did Dom. Say what you want but you fuckers are all Rong about him. Be happy with what you have & that's a 4th Super Bowl title. Celebrate that, because that's what I look at....not all the negative bullshit.
Coaches usually have a shelf life of 8-10 years in the NFL. The guy has a street named after him. STFU & enjoy the season
Trees have streets named after them.
You win the internet for the day.
BrainDed posted:Rong. A competent coach would lead the best QB, statistically speaking, to more than 1 Super Bowl appearance.
Like Don Shula did? Or Tony Dungy? Or Sean Payton? Or Mike Holmgren? Or Bill Cowher?
In fact there are actually only 32 coaches in NFL history that have a SB win PERIOD, only 13 of them have multiple SBs. Of the 43 coaches in NFL history that have over 100 wins, only 9 have multiple SBs and only 1 coach has multiple SBs since the year 2000...there are 4 coaches who won multiple SBs but never won 100 games: Tom Flores, Vince Lombardi, Bill Walsh, and Jimmy Johnson. It's hard to win a SB regardless of your personnel.
So no, it is definitively not abnormal or unprecedented for a coach to not achieve multiple SBs despite having a franchise (or HOF even) QB. I see 5 HOF coaches (Weeb Eubank, John Madden, Hank Stram, Tony Dungy, Mike Ditka) that had a HOF QB (or in Ditka's case multiple HOF players on the team) that only achieved 1 SB. Is it disappointing? Yes obviously. Does it mean MM was a dud or not competent? Absolutely not.
BrainDed posted:Rong. A competent coach would lead the best QB, statistically speaking, to more than 1 Super Bowl appearance.
Rodgers bailed out MM numerous times in the playoffs. It was a rare, if ever, for MM's game plan or game mgt to contribute to the success. It was a hindrance that Rodgers would overcome.
Ironically I would say he had a near perfect plan for the Seattle NFCCG, until he shot himself in the foot in the end, with the help of Brian Bostick.
Not that I want to compare MM with others, but letâs not forget Holmgren and Wolf and Favre only got them one title as well. Looking back on things they should have had more.
I think they have a chance to compete for one the next 2-3 years but winning a world championship is pretty difficult even if you have a really good team.
Boris posted:Really? All happy that McCarthy got booted, eh? Was it time for him to go, sure.....but seriously. He brought us a Super Bowl title. So did Dom. Say what you want but you fuckers are all Rong about him. Be happy with what you have & that's a 4th Super Bowl title. Celebrate that, because that's what I look at....not all the negative bullshit.
Coaches usually have a shelf life of 8-10 years in the NFL. The guy has a street named after him. STFU & enjoy the season
Disagree- the guy sucked for a long time and should have bet let go after the Seattle debacle. He lost the team a long time ago and under-delivered considering he had HOF quarterbacks his entire career. He had a ton of talent and arguably the best player on the planet at the most important position for years and won one Superbowl. I think a lot of good coaches would have done much better.
I am grateful for the Superbowl and always will be. I will at the same time believe that some of 12's best years were wasted as a result of MM.
Grave Digger posted:BrainDed posted:Rong. A competent coach would lead the best QB, statistically speaking, to more than 1 Super Bowl appearance.
I see 5 HOF coaches (Weeb Eubank, John Madden, Hank Stram, Tony Dungy, Mike Ditka) that had a HOF QB (or in Ditka's case multiple HOF players on the team) that only achieved 1 SB.
Ditka is not a HOF coach, he got in as a player.
Stram got to 2 SBs not just 1 with Dawson. He also won 2 AFL championships during the pre-SB era.
Dungy had a HOF QB for 7 years.
Ewbank had a HOF QB during the SB era for 8 seasons and won 1 SB. Ewbank also won 2 NFL titles in the pre-SB era.
Madden had a HOF QB for 8 seasons and won 1 SB.
MM appeared in and won 1 SB in his 13 seasons with HOFs behind center every one of those seasons.
Like Don Shula did? Or Tony Dungy? Or Sean Payton? Or Mike Holmgren? Or Bill Cowher?
Holmgren went to two Super Bowls with a QB that is less talented than Rodgers. Would have been more if the Vikings didn't create the Cowboy Dynasty.
Shula has been to multiple SuperBowls, Wikipedia says 6
Dungy had to go through BB and Tom Brady. MM didn't have that in the NFC.
Payton made an amazingly gutsy call to propel his team to a SB win. He was about to go again last year but got completely screwed by the Zebras. Once again his team is looking like the favorite in the NFC this year.
MM is just not in the same league as any of those guys. 13 years of HOF qb play and no Dynasty's in the NFC and he got one appearance.
Ditka is not a HOF coach, he got in as a player.
Stram got to 2 SBs not just 1 with Dawson. He also won 2 AFL championships during the pre-SB era.
Dungy had a HOF QB for 7 years.
Ewbank had a HOF QB during the SB era for 8 seasons and won 1 SB. Ewbank also won 2 NFL titles in the pre-SB era.
Madden had a HOF QB for 8 seasons and won 1 SB.
MM appeared in and won 1 SB in his 13 seasons with HOFs behind center every one of those seasons
None of those coaches but Dungy had to deal with FA or the salary cap. Both of those forces are designed to limit sustained success = parity.
Shula had zero SB wins with Marino. Seems like even more of a big fat waste of a QB talent than MM. You guys are rationalizing all of the reasons why these guys are great coaches yet only have 1 SB, but what it comes down to is that they all had zero to 1 SB with their HOF QB, same as MM yet he gets none of that rationalizing. Those guys are/were great coaches, so was MM.
First, you're talking wins only.. My statement was pertaining to appearances.
"Rong. A competent coach would lead the best QB, statistically speaking, to more than 1 Super Bowl appearance. "
2nd, you want to defend MM, you supply the rationalization. I don't see any, so I'm not defending it. Manning/Dungy and Cowher / Ben had to go against Tom Brady / BB. Don Shula has been to 6 so no rationalization needed. Holmgren made it to two and may have been more if he wasn't up against the Cowboy dynasty early in his tenure.
What's MM excuse for only 1 appreance? He didn't shit can his pathetic D coordinator and special teams coordinator soon enough? That's on him. His GM didn't supply him with talent? That means your beloved TT wasn't as good as you claim him to be.
You're stuck bud.
packerboi posted:By the time all is said and done, Matt LaFluer is looking at what is likely to be a 6-7 game swing in wins taking this team to either 12-4 or 13-3. That is a incredible turn around for ANY coach to do in a single year, much less a rookie one. And it makes forgetting MM all that much easier.
I am also not convinced Angry Bald Man is here in 2020. Gutenheimer has spent a shit load of FA money and the Packers have invested a ton of draft capitol on the defense. He has 6 players on his defense that are either 1st or 2nd round picks.
It would not at all shock me if MLF moved on from Pettine. MLF see's what is going on in SF and best believe his best buddies in SF are also in his ear about what they think of GB's defense. And unlike MM, MLF does not appear to be a HC who will hang on to assistants because they are "yes" men to him or because they are friends. A big contrast to McVince as well.
Ron Rivera is available. Was a hell of a DC back in the day.
Henry posted:Regardless of how it ended, It's not nice to talk ill of people that did their best and were pretty successful
Is MM a moderator here now? LMAO.
ammo posted:I think we need to replace Special Teams coach much more than we need to replace Angry Bald Man.
There's nothing stopping the Packers from replacing both.
Tschmack posted:Not that I want to compare MM with others, but letâs not forget Holmgren and Wolf and Favre only got them one title as well. Looking back on things they should have had more.
And if Denver hadn't been cheating on the salary cap, the Packers would have had more.
BrainDed posted:
What's MM excuse for only 1 appreance? He didn't shit can his pathetic D coordinator and special teams coordinator soon enough? That's on him.
Nobody and I mean NOBODY knows what input TT had on keeping Dom and whoever the special teams coach was. MM may well as wanted to shit can them but TT may have said no. Or even what input Mark Murphy may have had. We all know he meddled in places he didn't belong. Boris is right, enjoy what we got. Winning all the time makes you hated like BB, Tom Brady and the Pats. Or the Yankees and Dodgers. .
For a decade, the Packers were the team nobody wanted to face in the playoffs. The only team (still to this day) that won it all from the #6 seed. They also won 19 straight games in a row.
I remember Belichick shaking his hand after the Packers beat the Patriots. (Dec 2014?) Know why? Because at Lambeau the Packers don't try to jam headset signals or pump in crowd noise.
Yeah he got put out to pasture after his expiration date. So fucking what? You can't change it. Move forward instead of crying about "what might have been"
9-3 football team in 2019 & we're talking about when the HC got fired LAST year. Un-fucking-real
Shouldn't it be easier to appreciate the good stuff once he's gone? I liked MM, just like I liked Sherman. Both were kept beyond their effective date, but they contributed more good than bad in their respective tenures. I wasn't crazy about Holmgren in his final year. Doesn't mean I need to shit on him.
9-3 football team in 2019 & we're talking about when the HC got fired LAST year. Un-fucking-real
That's because the Packers have a demanding history of success, unlike some franchises just to the west that I can think of.
Boris posted:For a decade, the Packers were the team nobody wanted to face in the playoffs. The only team (still to this day) that won it all from the #6 seed. They also won 19 straight games in a row.
I remember Belichick shaking his hand after the Packers beat the Patriots. (Dec 2014?) Know why? Because at Lambeau the Packers don't try to jam headset signals or pump in crowd noise.
Yeah he got put out to pasture after his expiration date. So fucking what? You can't change it. Move forward instead of crying about "what might have been"
9-3 football team in 2019 & we're talking about when the HC got fired LAST year. Un-fucking-real
The Packers were not the only 6th seed to win the SB. The 2005 Steelers did it. If you were going to pick a team that no one wanted to face in the playoffs for a decade it would have been the Patriots, not the Packers. I see nothing wrong with talking about Packer history both good and bad and not sure why some people are getting so upset about it. My opinion is that they waited WAY too long to replace MM and it wasted too much of Rodgers prime years.
The day went pretty "as usual" for me, although I did spend some time polishing the dagger.
BrainDed posted:First, you're talking wins only.. My statement was pertaining to appearances.
"Rong. A competent coach would lead the best QB, statistically speaking, to more than 1 Super Bowl appearance. "
2nd, you want to defend MM, you supply the rationalization. I don't see any, so I'm not defending it. Manning/Dungy and Cowher / Ben had to go against Tom Brady / BB. Don Shula has been to 6 so no rationalization needed. Holmgren made it to two and may have been more if he wasn't up against the Cowboy dynasty early in his tenure.
What's MM excuse for only 1 appreance? He didn't shit can his pathetic D coordinator and special teams coordinator soon enough? That's on him. His GM didn't supply him with talent? That means your beloved TT wasn't as good as you claim him to be.
You're stuck bud.
Iâm not stuck with anything. Your world is either âhe fucking sucksâ or âheâs fucking amazingâ. TT can be a good to great GM and have made some mistakes. MM can be a good to great coach who also made mistakes. I donât have to rationalize why MM is a good coach, his record speaks for itself. Those are facts, youâre stuck all the things you think he did wrong with no acknowledgement of those facts or the things he did right. Youâre on the rong side of history, MM has the numbers comparable to many well respected coaches, people speak well of him including Aaron Rodgers, and spoiler alert: MM is going to be a Packer HOFer and remembered as one of the best coaches in GB history whether you like it or not.
I like it.
Boris posted:For a decade, the Packers were the team nobody wanted to face in the playoffs. The only team (still to this day) that won it all from the #6 seed.
Steelers did it first.
artis posted:Shouldn't it be easier to appreciate the good stuff once he's gone? I liked MM, just like I liked Sherman. Both were kept beyond their effective date, but they contributed more good than bad in their respective tenures. I wasn't crazy about Holmgren in his final year. Doesn't mean I need to shit on him.
I understood why Holmgren left. He wanted to run the whole show and that wasn't going to happen in GB. But a LOT of people shit on Holmgren with the way things ended. People thought he was mentally checked out and looking ahead to his future gig in the 1998 season. Now imagine if his last two seasons only netted the team 13 wins.
I think if he did stick around another 5-6 years there's probably another SB trip in there somewhere but I think we would have also seen Holmie and Favre clash much like Rodgers and MM did.
"his record speaks for itself. Those are facts,"
Yes, agreed. 1 Super Bowl appearance with 13 years of HOF qb play.
Disappointing, underwhelming.. so on.
Substitute 7 years instead of 13 and you have NFL HOF coach Tong Dungy.
You realize that is almost twice as long, right? 7x2=14. You also realize that he had to go up against arguably the most successful NFL Dynasty ever in that 7 years?
13X posted:The Packers were not the only 6th seed to win the SB. The 2005 Steelers did it.
The Packers are the only 6 seed in the NFC. The Packers also won 19 in a row. Patriots never did that.
Packers are the team nobody wanted to play.
Today, that team is the Ravens
Boris posted:
Yeah he got put out to pasture after his expiration date. So fucking what? You can't change it. Move forward instead of crying about "what might have been"
^THIS^ As many have said it is freaking HARD to win a Super Bowl. Everything has to align just perfectly for it to happen. Would I have loved to have seen 2-3 more wins absolutely but why dwell so much on what happened in the past (guess what that can't be change by the way) and just enjoy the current season?
Damn by the way everyone is acting on this board this season you would think we are enduring another terrible season. I honestly never would have thought in my lifetime I would see Packers fans so damn spoiled it makes me sad in a way.
People were irrationally angry at Holmgren for a while and now recognize he was a great coach in GB. Time will pass and the narrative will shift from McCarthy was an incompetent idiot to well he was good but he made a lot of mistakes to yeah he was great and we were lucky to have him. He made a lot of mistakes, as all coaches do, but probably his biggest sin was not walking away on his own terms.
BrainDed posted:You realize that is almost twice as long, right? 7x2=14. You also realize that he had to go up against arguably the most successful NFL Dynasty ever in that 7 years?
Dungy also wasted the time of a HOF defense in Tampa that another coach stepped in and immediately won a SB with. NFL HOFer though.
I think the Packers Organization (not just Mike) failed in not getting to another Super Bowl. As a smart woman once said, it takes a village.
Its a tough world, Mike took the fall. He belongs in the Packer HOF and will be there in a few years.
Could have been to another SB except the fucking QB threw the game away because he was cold.
Boris posted:13X posted:The Packers were not the only 6th seed to win the SB. The 2005 Steelers did it.
The Packers are the only 6 seed in the NFC. The Packers also won 19 in a row. Patriots never did that.
Pats won 21 in a row broken by the Steelers. That's the only streak longer than the Packers. Also before MM's time in GB.
Holmgren was a fantastic coach and I was annoyed how poorly he was treated when he left. They were a stones throw away from winning 2 titles in a row and if not for the Jerry Rice non fumble who knows how the 1998 playoffs may have turned out?
Again, there have been plenty of really good teams that havenât won a Super Bowl. Weâve had our fair share of good Packers teams falling just short - namely 1995, 1997, 2007, and 2014. Hell, throw in 1998 and 2003 for good measure.
At a minimum, the Packers should have 2-3 more titles as I am convinced they would have beaten Pittsburgh in 1995, should have beaten Denver in 1997, and may have been able to beat New England in 2007 or 2014.
Grave Digger posted:People were irrationally angry at Holmgren for a while and now recognize he was a great coach in GB. Time will pass and the narrative will shift from McCarthy was an incompetent idiot to well he was good but he made a lot of mistakes to yeah he was great and we were lucky to have him. He made a lot of mistakes, as all coaches do, but probably his biggest sin was not walking away on his own terms.
I'm not going to say McVince didn't do a good job initially. One plus was dealing with Bert and putting Rodgers and a new core of players on a path to a Superbowl. This is when TT was at the top of his game as well.
The major distinction between Holmgren and McVince is Holmgren shaped Bert and put him in line. What also can't be ignored is this was an era before the salary cap so building that monster defense also made everyone look good.
I think if you're looking at most impact on each era I would say Harlan/Wolf/Holmgren/Defense/Favre. The Rodgers era I would say TT/Rodgers/McVince/Superbowl defense . . . . . . . . . . Snow tubing hill/Murphy. Of course both TT and McVince took a serious nose dive after 2014.
McVince deserves kudos and maybe Holmgren would've been skewered more if he stuck around. Hell, even Sherman had the team winning but that was due to Wolf's remaining talent. Sherman did diddlysquat as a GM.
So yeah, McVince deserves his due without a doubt but I wouldn't make the comparison to Holmgren. People were pissed at Holmgren because he left and seemingly wasn't focused in the 2nd Superbowl. People were pissed at McVince because he stuck around with the worst coaching staff.
On a side note: I think it's pretty clear now that Highsmith and Elliot Wolf weren't all they were supposedly cracked up to be. I don't know how Gergle will pan out but I do think it was the right move to make him GM with what remained of the FO. It would've been nice to have Schneider as GM but that ship has sailed.
Tschmack posted:Holmgren was a fantastic coach and I was annoyed how poorly he was treated when he left. They were a stones throw away from winning 2 titles in a row and if not for the Jerry Rice non fumble who knows how the 1998 playoffs may have turned out?
Again, there have been plenty of really good teams that havenât won a Super Bowl. Weâve had our fair share of good Packers teams falling just short - namely 1995, 1997, 2007, and 2014. Hell, throw in 1998 and 2003 for good measure.
At a minimum, the Packers should have 2-3 more titles as I am convinced they would have beaten Pittsburgh in 1995, should have beaten Denver in 1997, and may have been able to beat New England in 2007 or 2014.
2011 can be added here as well. 15-1 and one and done...âĶ.
Henry posted:The major distinction between Holmgren and McVince is Holmgren shaped Bert and put him in line.
I think MM deserves credit for recognizing he had a brilliant young QB, standing his ground with Favre that they were sticking with Rodgers, and collaborating with Rodgers to create an offense that was dominant. It took 20 lb Pittsburgh balls to go all-in on a mostly unknown commodity when your HOF QB who just took you to the NFCC tells you he wants to return and try again. Most coaches would have picked Favre every time because of the short leash HC's tend to get. I think TT agreed with MM, but I think that was MM's choice 100%.
Rodgers development was obviously easier than most QBs because he is a HOF mental and physical talent, but MM deserves a share of credit for his development. Not just his development though, I think he recognized this kid was special and didn't treat him the same way as Favre who needed to be reigned in. I think they partnered on this offense from the beginning and MM trusted him to take care of business. Again not a lot coaches would do that, especially not first time HC's in year 3 or 4, it took guts.
Favorite MM memory is hearing that he surprised the players with a ring fitting the night before the Super Bowl. Gave our players confidence to win it all.
Fedya posted:Tschmack posted:Not that I want to compare MM with others, but letâs not forget Holmgren and Wolf and Favre only got them one title as well. Looking back on things they should have had more.
And if Denver hadn't been cheating on the salary cap, the Packers would have had more.
...and if Favre wouldn't have thrown the ball over Antonio Freeman's head, when Free had a wide open field in front of him, we would have had another.
One thing I will ALWAYS give McCarthy credit for. All too often, no, WAY too often, McCarthy would have to stand in front of that podium and do the job that Ted Thompson refused to do. And this was before any health issues with Ted.
MM would stand there and answer for personnel moves, why draft picks busted out, why the Packers weren't signing player X or Y etc etc. it was incredibly unfair and complete bullshit that Ted wouldn't do that very large part of his job. And to MM's credit, he did it and did it without grumbling or whining over it which he would have been more then justified to do.
I also have zero doubts, especially later in his regime, that he was begging Ted to go out and find him FA help. Which we all know fell on deaf ears until Ted was "re-assigned" to consultant. And it will always make me wonder what those years could have looked like if TT threw MM a bone and signed a couple of key FA's
Grave Digger posted:Favorite MM memory is hearing that he surprised the players with a ring fitting the night before the Super Bowl. Gave our players confidence to win it all.
That and CJ Wilson tickling the ivories.
packerboi posted:One thing I will ALWAYS give McCarthy credit for. All too often, no, WAY too often, McCarthy would have to stand in front of that podium and do the job that Ted Thompson refused to do. And this was before any health issues with Ted.
MM would stand there and answer for personnel moves, why draft picks busted out, why the Packers weren't signing player X or Y etc etc. it was incredibly unfair and complete bullshit that Ted wouldn't do that very large part of his job. And to MM's credit, he did it and did it without grumbling or whining over it which he would have been more then justified to do.
MM was indeed forced to answer to the media and public for the organization's mounting personnel mistakes when he was not the one making those mistakes.
And yes taking a bullet or two or three for the boss man who refuses to take ownership for his errors can be an admirable trait.
Then again, MM was fiercely loyal to both those below him (Dom) and apparently Ted above him and perhaps a bit more blunt honesty (or grumbling or whining if you prefer) about the GM's refusal to add veteran talent through free agency or trades would have served both MM and the Packers better than just taking it in the proverbial shorts for Ted as MM did during the last several years of their time together in GB.
You have no idea what MM said or did not say to TT behind the scenes. All we do know is how he acted in front of the mic. I would bet he said plenty. But he would never air that to the public because that was part of his loyalty-to-a-fault MO.
In this instance just basic professionalism I believe. You don't go bashing your own front office or questioning them publicly. I imagine there were plenty of tense discussions when everyone was informed guys like Woodson, Tramon, Jenkins, Lang, etc. were going to be allowed to just walk, but we won't ever really know for sure.
Henry posted:Grave Digger posted:Favorite MM memory is hearing that he surprised the players with a ring fitting the night before the Super Bowl. Gave our players confidence to win it all.
That and CJ Wilson tickling the ivories.
That ring fitting thing is a really misleading story. The Packers were going to get a ring, win or lose. If they lost they would all get rings for winning the NFC Championship. So getting fitted ahead of the game really meant nothing. Pretty sure their size for a SB ring would be the same as their size for a NFC ring.
You don't do a ring fitting for either eventuality BEFORE the Super Bowl though. I think those things are done well after the fact. Also it seems like it really meant something to the players.
I think it meant something to the players that weren't aware of a loser ring. I have no doubt a good number of players knew they were getting a ring if they lost 60-0 so they weren't going to spoil that for the other guys.
Jerry Jones stuck tickets to the NFC Title game tickets in players lockers before they played the Giants in 2007/08. That worked out pretty well. Sometimes motivational tactics work. Sometimes they don't. Most times the better team wins and any motivational tactics just make for nice feel good stories.
Grave Digger posted:In this instance just basic professionalism I believe. You don't go bashing your own front office or questioning them publicly.
Many ways to call attention to an organization's issues short of directly bashing the boss.
And failing to take concerted action when the organization is clearly out of whack, is certainly one way to deal with the situation.
Certainly that approach has served Jason Garrett (or at least his bank account) well during his decade long run as Jerry Jones' poodle in Dallas.
And no doubt all those loyal employees who kept silent while the late Al Davis went senile in front of their eyes were able to cash the checks they got from the Raiders.
But, as a SB winning coach, if MM was truly that miffed at what the Packers GM (not owner mind you but GM) was doing it would have been nice if he had done a little more to alert the President of the club about those issues.
Unless of course MM was letting Murphy know about Ted's issues and Murphy is just lying about not knowing how bad things got until he finally pulled the plug on Ted after the 2017 season.
You're a big fan of conspiracies I bet. Everyone needs hobbies.
This has turned in to a really good thread, mostly sound reasoning. Pretty impressive given how incredibly stupid you idiots are.
I was definitely in the "be careful what you ask for" group. But clearly, it was time.
Like most of you, I couldn't be happier nor more surprised at where the Packers are right now.
Even x4 is right twice an hour.
As already noted, the angst with Holmgren was over the sense that he was mailing it in as he wanted out. Though one weird aspect to that is this sense was first mentioned the 97 season and he also coached the following year.
There were some hard feelings toward Holmy though from some Packer fans it seemed for a while. Once he flamed out in Seattle after a decade I think people let it go and now that we're 20 years out no one really seems to care. Beating him twice in the playoffs and having a 5-2 record against him helped a lot also. Same will be true of McCarthy. Time will pass and people will only remember the SB win, the championship game appearances, the winning %, etc.
Grave Digger posted:There were some hard feelings toward Holmy though from some Packer fans it seemed for a while. Once he flamed out in Seattle after a decade I think people let it go and now that we're 20 years out no one really seems to care. Beating him twice in the playoffs and having a 5-2 record against him helped a lot also. Same will be true of McCarthy. Time will pass and people will only remember the SB win, the championship game appearances, the winning %, etc.
You may be right and I do remember feeling like Holmgren wasn't all in for that last playoff run but I never felt like he was completely incompetent like I did with MM at times.
Except here. X4 never forgets.
Another part of the parting was that our powers that be allowed/did not protect the assistants from Holmy's cherry picking.
I did not celebrate anything yesterday.
Not even another day of living?
This whole discussion reminds me a lot as to what happened to Bart Starr. Like TT not going after free agents Judge Parins refusal to give Mike Butler a new contract hamstrung Starr. As a result the team which was getting better fell back and Starr was booed and booed at Lambeau, eventually being fired by Parins. Yet when Bart came back to Lambeau years later he was cheered louder than Favre. The same will happen with MM. Especially if the Packers do not another Super Bowl for many years.
I assume most people cheered Bart for his playing days and being an exceptional human being after the game. The coaching stuff can recede. MM will be celebrated again at Lambeau at some point but I don't think it will be anything like with Starr.
Nope, those two are not in the same conversation. MM will be celebrated about as much as Holmgren, which isn't a lot.
Completely different animal Holmy vs. McVince
Packers were the dregs of the NFL when Holmy took over. It was the FA wild west...he convinced the GOAT DE of all time to come here, eschewing offers from SF, Dallas and NYG, cream of the NFL crop at that time.
I think he will be celebrated, and deservingly so, much more than McVince.
PackerHawk posted:Nope, those two are not in the same conversation. MM will be celebrated about as much as Holmgren, which isn't a lot.
I never said it was the same, I said it reminded me of what happened with Starr. Anyone should be able to see the correlation. MM was booed in his last games as coach, Starr was booed in his last games as coach. Starr was cheered when he returned, yes many remembered his days as a player, but lots of those fans never saw him play, but do remember him as a coach. MM will be cheered too whenever he returns.
No real reason to boo Pittsburgh Macho if/when he returns. He won the team a SB and the fans will always have fond memories of that. He was merely a good coach and pretty clear from this thread that many hold his coaching abilities in much higher regard than I do.
I certainly wouldn't boo him but I'm not going to celebrate him either. A nice golf clap seems appropriate if I'm not on the concourse getting a beer.
You people are f'ing funny.
More importantly, how are you recognizing today's 86th anniversary of the repeal of prohibition?
MM is rumored to be in line for the Panthers job & also.....wait for it....
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The Cowboy job!!
GBFanForLife posted:You people are f'ing funny.
I'm funny how, I mean funny like a clown?
The Jerry and Mike Show....stay tuned.
Time heals most wounds.
When the time comes where MM is being recognized by the team, or participating in some kind of alumni/homecoming thing, I'd think folks will remember him with mostly warm nostalgia.
And I hope that he will share many (funny) anecdotes, much as Holmgren has.
And we happen to have the king of ass-kissing to assuage the butt hurt of many to bring the family back together, after all....
It was 14 US a bottle when I was there a year ago.
Fedya posted:Thunderbird posted:More importantly, how are you recognizing today's 86th anniversary of the repeal of prohibition?
In Iceland, they celebrate Beer Day to commemorate the re-legalizing of beer, which only happened in 1989.
But they could still drink herkedzinrerkergel right?
I thought that was a lady part exercise.
Paging Goldie
DH13 posted:I assume most people cheered Bart for his playing days and being an exceptional human being after the game. The coaching stuff can recede. MM will be celebrated again at Lambeau at some point but I don't think it will be anything like with Starr.
This.
MM was a far, far more successful head coach of the Packers than was Bart Starr.
MM also coached as an assistant for multiple other NFL teams before taking over as HC in GB. And, if the rumors are true, he will soon be named the HC of another NFL team.
Bart Starr quarterbacked the Packers for over a decade. Bart also won 5 NFL Titles and the first 2 SBs. He is forever linked in Packer lore to his HC Vince Lombardi.
Bart was never, as far as I can recall, part of another NFL franchise. He was also widely know, in Wisconsin and beyond, as a great humanitarian.
MM certainly deserves no opprobrium from Packer fans, but he will never, ever come close to reaching Bart's status among the Green and Gold faithful and nor should he.
As for how MM will be recognized by Packer fans in the future, I think much depends upon what transpires over the next couple of seasons.
Have any of you heard the owner of the Panthers talk?
I realize heâs a highly successful hedge fund guy but JFC he sounds like MMs long lost brother. Jim Tomasula likes where that conversation was going.
I have more fuzzies for MM than I do Bert Faver. Just to toss out another pointless comparison.
Agreed. Golf clap for MM, silence for Bert.
I miss Jim Tomsula farting during a post-game presser.
The best is when he furrows his brow to force it out
McVince just got stale. Bert is a shit. I have no clue why anyone would boo McVince. Winston Moss is another kettle fish.
I for one don't remember Bart the player but I unfortunately remember him as the coach. If I had been at Lambeau when Bart came back he would have gotten a huge cheer from me because of the legacy he means to my team.
As for MM if they had some sort of homecoming/recognition thing for him and I was there I would cheer for him. Yes the situation got stale the last couple of seasons but he did bring us a Super Bowl, won us a bunch of division titles, and won a ton of games. Nowhere near Starr's legacy with the team but he does to me deserve a ton of respect for what he did accomplish.
Holmgren hasn't coached since 2008. Out of football since 2012. Has there been any sighting of him at Lambeau Field? He's been a ghost as far as I know.
Any talk of a "homecoming" for MM is pretty silly at this point. Hell, I might be dead by the time he's spotted at Lambeau as anything other than the coach of another team.
Henry posted:McVince just got stale. Bert is a shit. I have no clue why anyone would boo McVince. Winston Moss is another kettle fish.
Agreed-
F Favre forever. Phony drama queen interception machine Viking POS. MM just came off as so unintelligent at times. Just too stubborn and stuck in his ways. Add in a little ego and it got real old but I would never boo MM. I would boo Bert in a heartbeat though.
