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Cap number for franchised WR's will be $11.4 million.

Patriots are giving very serious consideration to using the tag on Welker again.

Greg made the comment "you don't see Wes Welker smiling, do you?". No idea if he's smiling or not. But he's not saying a word to anyone about 2013 either. He's saying things like this.

ESIT. PB is correct. Franchise tag for WR's is $10.35 for 2013. Welker would be $11.4 based on it being used again.
Seems dumb to me that players whine so much about the tag. I get the idea of long term security via guaranteed money, but if the player gets tagged three years in a row, he'll bank more money in those three years than he would in that 5 year guaranteed contract (if he were cut after 3 years).

If Jennings were tagged for three years, he'd bank over $36m in three years ($10m in 2013, $12m in 2014 and $14m in 2015). Yes, there is injury risk. But that injury risk isn't what it used to be. Just seeing AP and Jamaal Charles tearing up their knees only to come back stronger the very next year shows that injuries these days aren't as much of a risk as they once were. But I think it's more that players want to work hard in that one contract year, get their pay day, and then relax a bit. Maybe not quit altogether, but not work as hard as they did early in their career.

Not all players are like this, but there is quite a long history of players getting their pay day and never performing up to their big contract. Albert Haynesworth is a perfect example. Played great in his contract year and his franchise year, only to mail it in as soon as he signed that $100m contract.

If I ran a team, any player that complained about the franchise tag would immediately not be considered for a long term deal b/c to me, it'd be an indicator of not wanting to work hard.
quote:
Originally posted by Pakrz:
What's the downfall for the team if they franchise a guy? Guaranteed money?


Yep. Once he signs the tender, he gets it all. With the new CBA Im not sure if it prevents Jennings from being franchised again in 2014 or if some poison pill is thrown in there where his 2014 franchise number would become outrageous.

The other thing TT always seems to be aware of is the message he sends to other players when doing contracts. Jennings obviously would not be happy being franchised but TT also has be aware of the impact that makes on other players who's contracts are up.

Regardless in TT I trust. He will do the right thing that's best for the team. Not Jennings.

That's what makes TT such a good GM.
And why is that not doable? Lose Hawk and Wood you've got it covered. I know about Arod Clay and Raji but there are other high salaries that can fall by then like Pick and maybe Tramon that everyone's ragging on. Add in a bunch of mediocre contracts that add up like Walden and Zombo and Kuhn, all replaceable by rookies and it can't be done?

I just don't think he Niners were releasing Rice in his prime while Montana and Young were still there.
Just a guess.

Jennings will want something in the neighborhood of $10.5 - $11 million per based on what Vincent Jackson and Marques Colston were just given.

TT is probably hoping for something closer to $8 - $8.5 million per.

Cobb is signed through 2014 but TT's MO will be to extend Cobb in 2013 before the price tag has a chance to escalate.

I would love to see Jennings return. I just don't see TT using the tag. And I don't see Greg coming down much from his asking price.
quote:
Originally posted by CUPackFan:
If I ran a team, any player that complained about the franchise tag would immediately not be considered for a long term deal b/c to me, it'd be an indicator of not wanting to work hard.


Agreed, no incentive at that point other than personal pride to be the best always ...
And lets face it that shipped sailed a long time ago in these sports and in this country.

JMO.
Last edited by El-Ka-Bong
quote:
Originally posted by Hud:
And why is that not doable? Lose Hawk and Wood you've got it covered. I know about Arod Clay and Raji but there are other high salaries that can fall by then like Pick and maybe Tramon that everyone's ragging on. Add in a bunch of mediocre contracts that add up like Walden and Zombo and Kuhn, all replaceable by rookies and it can't be done?

I just don't think he Niners were releasing Rice in his prime while Montana and Young were still there.


The Niners and Rice and Montana was a different time and era, the salary cap was first introduced in 1994.

It's not that easy, when trying to come up with the $$$ he wants, and to keep a salary structure. Pickett doesn't make a ton on of dough, and to think him going off the books will help 12, 52, 90 is laughable. Dont forget that there are other players that are critical as well, Bishop, Burnett, Bulaga, Cobb, Nelson, Quarless, even Masthay that will all be coming due over the next few years. You can't just dump everyone and hope that your "roll" players can be replaced by rookies.

One of the reasons, the Packers have been so good recently, is the amount of depth on the team. The depth results from good scouting, excellent drafting, sound salary management, and player growth. It's unlikely that a bunch of rookies come in and play as well as Walden, Shields, etc.
Packers have gone 6-2 without him this year. 5-3 with him. Best point I've seen made is that Greg Jennings is a luxury the Packers may not be able to afford right now. Jennings is a weapon but GB can win with Cobb, Jordy, Jones, and Finley (I'm leaning more and more in the direction he's back)

GB also takes stress (reliance) off the passing game by developing a stronger OL so they balance out the attack a little more. That looks like the direction MM wants to take the team. I hope GB is able to find a long term solution at C in the draft.
Information obtained from spotrac site. Do not vouch for information nor my estimates.
Meant to generate discussions only.

                                 		12-30-12				
x			          RUNNING			
NO.  NAME	  2013 Cap	   TOTAL		    RESULT	
1   Rodgers	10,250,000.00	10,250,000.00			
2   Woodson	10,000,000.00	20,250,000.00	       $121,500,000.00	 Est 2013 Cap
3   Finley	8,750,000.00	29,000,000.00		 $7,000,000.00	 Est 2012 Rollover
4  T Williams	7,400,000.00	36,400,000.00	       $128,500,000.00	 Est 2013 Adjusted Cap
5    Hawk	7,050,000.00	43,450,000.00	      ($115,207,335.00)  Top 48 Players
6   Picket	6,700,000.00	50,150,000.00	        ($2,250,000.00)	 Est 3 more @ 750,000
7    Raji	6,195,000.00	56,345,000.00		($2,000,000.00)	 Est Dead Money
8   Sitton	5,250,000.00	61,595,000.00		 $9,042,665.00	 Est Cap Available
9   Bishop	4,964,000.00	66,559,000.00		($5,000,000.00)	 Sign Draftees
10  Nelson	4,025,000.00	70,584,000.00		 $8,750,000.00	 Release Finley
11 Saturday	3,750,000.00	74,334,000.00		 $3,750,000.00	 Release Saturday
12  J Jones	3,750,000.00	78,084,000.00		$10,000,000.00	 Release Woodson
13   Crosby	3,150,000.00	81,234,000.00		 $3,000,000.00	 Redo Hawk
14    Lang	3,100,000.00	84,334,000.00		   $555,000.00	 Release Saine
15   Matthews	2,672,500.00	87,006,500.00		         $0.00	 Release/Redo  ??
16    Kuhn	2,600,000.00	89,606,500.00		         $0.00	 Release/Redo  ??
17   Bulaga	2,125,500.00	91,732,000.00		         $0.00	 Release/Redo  ??
18   Sherrod	1,800,546.00	93,532,546.00		         $0.00	 Release/Redo  ??
19   J Bush	1,783,333.00	95,315,879.00		$30,097,665.00	 Available for Extensions
20    Perry	1,704,375.00	97,020,254.00		($5,000,000.00)	 Rogers
21     Neal	1,042,750.00	98,063,004.00		($4,000,000.00)	 Matthews
22    Masthay	1,005,000.00	99,068,004.00		($2,500,000.00)	 Shields
23    Worthy	901,085.00	99,969,089.00		($2,000,000.00)	 Raji
24     Cobb	875,297.00	100,844,386.00		($2,000,000.00)	 EDS
25    Burnett	848,775.00	101,693,161.00		($2,000,000.00)	 J Jones
26     Goode	821,250.00	102,514,411.00		         $0.00	 Other
27    Hayward	752,201.00	103,266,612.00		         $0.00	 Other
28   Alex Green	691,250.00	103,957,862.00		         $0.00	 Other
29    Quarless	675,606.00	104,633,468.00		         $0.00	 Other
30    Newhouse	667,482.00	105,300,950.00		         $0.00	 Other
31     House	630,145.00	105,931,095.00		$12,597,665.00	 2013 Reserve
32    Harrell	630,000.00	106,561,095.00			
33  DJ Williams	604,500.00	107,165,595.00			
34    Starks	600,075.00	107,765,670.00			
35   CJ Wilson	587,588.00	108,353,258.00			
36   D J Smith	580,788.00	108,934,046.00			
37    R Taylor	569,794.00	109,503,840.00			
38   Lattimore	556,667.00	110,060,507.00			
39  MD Jennings	555,833.00	110,616,340.00			
40   McMillan	555,146.00	111,171,486.00			
41   Daniels	555,146.00	111,726,632.00			
42    Saine	555,000.00	112,281,632.00			
43   Manning	522,870.00	112,804,502.00			
44  Richardson	481,667.00	113,286,169.00			
45    Moses	481,166.00	113,767,335.00			
46  Van Roten	480,000.00	114,247,335.00			
47   Barclay	480,000.00	114,727,335.00			
48   J Miller	480,000.00	115,207,335.00			
49			        115,207,335.00			
50			        115,207,335.00			
51			        115,207,335.00
Last edited by Boris
LOL @ Chili

quote:
Originally posted by runningdirt:
Same GM also picked Wr's Terrence Murphy, Corey Rodgers and David Clowney during same time period rnds 2-5. These guys are really kicking ass for us also.


Way to overlook his picks of Jennings, James Jones, Jordy Nelson, and Randall Cobb.

All outstanding picks and sorry, you fail if you think TT can't find talent at WR. GM's in the NFL would kill to have half that "luck".
He's proven it time and time again. Not to mention WR's Ross and Boykin at the very least showing promising potential.

quote:
Originally posted by Hud:
I just don't think he Niners were releasing Rice in his prime while Montana and Young were still there


Look I like Jennings but comparing him to Jerry Rice? Um ya....NOT.

Think the gist of it is the Packers are at $115.2 million for the 48 player contracts on books for 2013. Estimated adjusted 2013 CAP is $128.5 million.

Roughly $9 million available with $2 million needed to sign draft picks.

List assumes GB drops Finley, Woodson, Saturday, and Saine.

Redo Hawk.

Net result is $3O.1 million available to extend AR. Matthews, Shields, Raji, EDS, J Jones. $12.5 million under the cap after all this is accomplished.

Which I assume you are saying could be used for Jennings.

I don't know if I'm ready to walk away from Finley and I don't think the $5 million shown here to extend Rodgers in 2013 will be enough. I hope a conversation with Charles about restructuring takes place before he's shown the door as well.
quote:
Originally posted by ammo:
Rong. The difference is who was the GM who acquired Schroeder and Turd vs. the GM who acquired Cobb and Jennings replacement.


I think the real difference is college ball. A lot more passing now and plenty of wides to choose from each year. Could we get lucky and find another Jennings? Yes but more likely a Cobb or Nelson. But D-Line is hard to come by so Raji first no doubt.
quote:
Originally posted by trogert:
Information obtained from spotrac site. Do not vouch for information nor my estimates.
Meant to generate discussions only.
     

                              		12-30-12				
x			          RUNNING			
NO.  NAME	  2013 Cap	   TOTAL		    RESULT	
1   Rodgers	10,250,000.00	10,250,000.00			
2   Woodson	10,000,000.00	20,250,000.00	       $121,500,000.00	 Est 2013 Cap
3   Finley	8,750,000.00	29,000,000.00		 $7,000,000.00	 Est 2012 Rollover
4  T Williams	7,400,000.00	36,400,000.00	       $128,500,000.00	 Est 2013 Adjusted Cap
5    Hawk	7,050,000.00	43,450,000.00	      ($115,207,335.00)  Top 48 Players
6   Picket	6,700,000.00	50,150,000.00	        ($2,250,000.00)	 Est 3 more @ 750,000
7    Raji	6,195,000.00	56,345,000.00		($2,000,000.00)	 Est Dead Money
8   Sitton	5,250,000.00	61,595,000.00		 $9,042,665.00	 Est Cap Available
9   Bishop	4,964,000.00	66,559,000.00		($5,000,000.00)	 Sign Draftees
10  Nelson	4,025,000.00	70,584,000.00		 $8,750,000.00	 Release Finley
11 Saturday	3,750,000.00	74,334,000.00		 $3,750,000.00	 Release Saturday
12  J Jones	3,750,000.00	78,084,000.00		$10,000,000.00	 Release Woodson
13   Crosby	3,150,000.00	81,234,000.00		 $3,000,000.00	 Redo Hawk
14    Lang	3,100,000.00	84,334,000.00		   $555,000.00	 Release Saine
15   Matthews	2,672,500.00	87,006,500.00		         $0.00	 Release/Redo  ??
16    Kuhn	2,600,000.00	89,606,500.00		         $0.00	 Release/Redo  ??
17   Bulaga	2,125,500.00	91,732,000.00		         $0.00	 Release/Redo  ??
18   Sherrod	1,800,546.00	93,532,546.00		         $0.00	 Release/Redo  ??
19   J Bush	1,783,333.00	95,315,879.00		$30,097,665.00	 Available for Extensions
20    Perry	1,704,375.00	97,020,254.00		($5,000,000.00)	 Rogers
21     Neal	1,042,750.00	98,063,004.00		($4,000,000.00)	 Matthews
22    Masthay	1,005,000.00	99,068,004.00		($2,500,000.00)	 Shields
23    Worthy	901,085.00	99,969,089.00		($2,000,000.00)	 Raji
24     Cobb	875,297.00	100,844,386.00		($2,000,000.00)	 EDS
25    Burnett	848,775.00	101,693,161.00		($2,000,000.00)	 J Jones
26     Goode	821,250.00	102,514,411.00		         $0.00	 Other
27    Hayward	752,201.00	103,266,612.00		         $0.00	 Other
28   Alex Green	691,250.00	103,957,862.00		         $0.00	 Other
29    Quarless	675,606.00	104,633,468.00		         $0.00	 Other
30    Newhouse	667,482.00	105,300,950.00		         $0.00	 Other
31     House	630,145.00	105,931,095.00		$12,597,665.00	 2013 Reserve
32    Harrell	630,000.00	106,561,095.00			
33  DJ Williams	604,500.00	107,165,595.00			
34    Starks	600,075.00	107,765,670.00			
35   CJ Wilson	587,588.00	108,353,258.00			
36   D J Smith	580,788.00	108,934,046.00			
37    R Taylor	569,794.00	109,503,840.00			
38   Lattimore	556,667.00	110,060,507.00			
39  MD Jennings	555,833.00	110,616,340.00			
40   McMillan	555,146.00	111,171,486.00			
41   Daniels	555,146.00	111,726,632.00			
42    Saine	555,000.00	112,281,632.00			
43   Manning	522,870.00	112,804,502.00			
44  Richardson	481,667.00	113,286,169.00			
45    Moses	481,166.00	113,767,335.00			
46  Van Roten	480,000.00	114,247,335.00			
47   Barclay	480,000.00	114,727,335.00			
48   J Miller	480,000.00	115,207,335.00			
49			        115,207,335.00			
50			        115,207,335.00			
51			        115,207,335.00
Last edited by Boris
quote:
Originally posted by ChilliJon:
Just a guess.

Jennings will want something in the neighborhood of $10.5 - $11 million per based on what Vincent Jackson and Marques Colston were just given.

TT is probably hoping for something closer to $8 - $8.5 million per.

Cobb is signed through 2014 but TT's MO will be to extend Cobb in 2013 before the price tag has a chance to escalate.

I would love to see Jennings return. I just don't see TT using the tag. And I don't see Greg coming down much from his asking price.


Didn't Pittsburgh give two guys the same offer and the first to sign got it? Just last year? Sounds like a Jennings / Cobb plan
Jennings is a good player, but he's not a Larry Fitzgerald/Calvin Johnson type franchise receiver. Someone will pay him big bucks in the range of 4 years and 50 million with an 8 figure guarantee. He'll do well for one or two years and then injuries are likely to catch up with him. As it is, he's already missed 15 games the last two years and he turns 30 at the beginning of next season.

As much as I'd like to keep him, I think you have to look at it that this is last chance to get the big bucks, and he's likely got a lot of family members (like his sister) pushing him to max out his earnings. He's a classy guy and will say all the right things, but he's going to whoever cuts him the biggest check. It's easy for us to criticize that, but most of us would do the same thing in his situation.

He's already won a Super Bowl and he's probably got at most 4 years left. I will wish him well but hope that he signs with someone outside the division. I'd hate to see him as a Bear, Viking, or Lion (the Lions might be the most likely spot unfortunately).
quote:
Originally posted by MichiganPacker:
Jennings is a good player, but he's not a Larry Fitzgerald/Calvin Johnson type franchise receiver. Someone will pay him big bucks in the range of 4 years and 50 million with an 8 figure guarantee. He'll do well for one or two years and then injuries are likely to catch up with him. As it is, he's already missed 15 games the last two years and he turns 30 at the beginning of next season.

As much as I'd like to keep him, I think you have to look at it that this is last chance to get the big bucks, and he's likely got a lot of family members (like his sister) pushing him to max out his earnings. He's a classy guy and will say all the right things, but he's going to whoever cuts him the biggest check. It's easy for us to criticize that, but most of us would do the same thing in his situation.

He's already won a Super Bowl and he's probably got at most 4 years left. I will wish him well but hope that he signs with someone outside the division. I'd hate to see him as a Bear, Viking, or Lion (the Lions might be the most likely spot unfortunately).


Good post, I agree generally except I doubt Chicago or Detroit, both teams are paying huge amounts already for their #1, I don't see them paying 2 WRs that kind of money. Minnesota needs a premeire guy and love to get older Packers. Its worked somewhat with Sharper and Longwell, I expect to see him wearing purple with an outside chance of Miami. In the end, though, you are right, it whoever pays the most.
quote:
Originally posted by runningdirt:
quote:
Originally posted by ammo:
Rong. The difference is who was the GM who acquired Schroeder and Turd vs. the GM who acquired Cobb and Jennings replacement.


Same GM also picked Wr's Terrence Murphy, Corey Rodgers and David Clowney during same time period rnds 2-5. These guys are really kicking ass for us also.


Really, are you serious with these?

Murphy never really got a chance. They discovered spinal stenosis after a hit to the helmet in his 1st pro game. No one knows how good he may have been.

Clowney has had a pro contract every year since the Packers drafted him. Few NFL players that are not entrenched with a franchise can say that. Even tho he is currently a FA, his career may not be over.

The worst of the 3. He still played for part of A season in Canada after his NFL career was over.

In TT I trust. Jennings can be replaced.
quote:
Originally posted by runningdirt:
quote:
Originally posted by ammo:
Rong. The difference is who was the GM who acquired Schroeder and Turd vs. the GM who acquired Cobb and Jennings replacement.


Same GM also picked Wr's Terrence Murphy, Corey Rodgers and David Clowney during same time period rnds 2-5. These guys are really kicking ass for us also.


Yes, Murphy who looked incredibly promising till lost to a neck injury that put him out of the NFL. David Clowney who was so bad he still managed to play for two other NFL teams. Corey Rodgers who was brought in for his return skills and not his WR skills, yet was an idiot.

Seriously ****ing weak argument.

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