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@YATittle posted:

Disagree on nothing at ILB. Barnes and watch for Kamal once he's back. I think those two will be serviceable. Summers, maybe. Burks forget it. Kirksey, no.

I am on board with this, really can't understand the lack of importance for ilb.  they are critical to a defense imo.  not sure if its from the upper level (gutey) or if its abm who's philosophy doesn't put importance on ilb...i see queen killing it and just wish...what could be

@DH13 posted:

I didn't see any of the KC/LV game nor read any analysis.  How did LV's D slow KC enough to outscore them?  Was KC just sloppy and having an off day?

They only rushed 3 or 4 and everyone else dropped into coverage. Not sure why KC didn't attack them more with the running game.

San Diego did the same thing to Brees last night but he's not the threat to run that Mahomes is, obviously.

Sometimes, the eyes may see one thing and stats say something entirely different.
An example would be "Packers rush defense sucks".
The stats say that's really not so. In total yards, we are ranked #4(!) vs the rush.
We do drop down to #9 in yds/game average.
Yeah, stats are screwy during the season because of games played differentials, but it's not like we would drop to #30 with one more game in hand (knock wood).

It really is crazy just how poor this team can be in terms of consistent pass rush pressure in certain games.  Even last year, I think of that Carolina game at Lambeau where the Pack made freaking Kyle Allen look good. 

The first 4 games of this year, the Pack was sporadic in terms of bringing pressure to QBs, but at least it was occasionally enough to slow teams down.  Yesterday, they never even slowed Tampa down.  Brady never had anyone even close to being in his face other than the Gary facemask penalty pressure.

Let's just hope a guy like Kenny Clark can play better from this point forward.  He looked pretty non-descript yesterday coming off the groin injury.  There's been 4 guys who have brought occasional pressure this year, Z. Smith, Clark, Keke, and Gary.  None of them really did much of anything yesterday, that can't happen again in a big game that all 4 of those guys are completely and totally shut down. 

@pkr_north posted:

I don't like the 'fake' of dropping guys like 91 into coverage...I mean wtf is that?  he ain't covering anyone...is he that bad of a rusher?...I also saw 90 dropping into coverage? again, just a waste of air at that point, and we are down a man where it counts,...

Those types of things occasionally work. For example, the BJ Raji pick 6 in the 2010 NFC Title game against the Bears. However, to work the pass rush has to make the ball come out quick. If a veteran (non-Jay Cutler) has time to see one of those big guys drop into coverage, it's going to be ugly.

The Packers have had one defensive play like that all year that worked. It wasn't a zone drop by a DL, but it was the Jaire Alexander CB blitz that fooled Cousins for a safety. Jaire disguised it well and got there quick. If he doesn't do that, there are two receivers on that side of the field open for big plays.

@bvan posted:

My choice would be whoever MLF wants. After being forced to retain ABM, let him pick the guy he wants.

I don’t think he was forced, I got the impression that MLF was on board with retaining Pettine which was a selling point for Murphy. Could have just been telling GB what he thought they wanted to hear and didn’t mean it, but that doesn’t really track with what we’ve seen from MLF. He’s not an ass kisser, but he doesn’t create problems for himself by running his mouth.

@michiganjoe posted:

Certainly fair to question both Pettine and what he's been given to work with. Safety play and Preston Smith have been disappointments and many of Gutey's decisions don't appear to be improving with age.

Yup, have been an early critic of Pettine(Rex Ryan's lackey) but no doubt it is not all his fault.

Still early, but 3 drafts from Brian Gutekunst have provided 2(??) impact players to date :

2018 Draft[edit]

RoundPick #OverallNamePositionCollege
11818Jaire AlexanderCornerbackLouisville
21345Josh JacksonCornerbackIowa
32488Oren BurksLinebackerVanderbilt
433133J'Mon MooreWide ReceiverMissouri
51138Cole MadisonGuardWashington State
535172JK ScottPunterAlabama
537174Marquez Valdes-ScantlingWide ReceiverSouth Florida
633207Equanimeous St. BrownWide ReceiverNotre Dame
714232James LooneyDefensive EndCalifornia
721239Hunter BradleyLong SnapperMississippi State
730248Kendall DonnersonLinebackerSoutheast Missouri State

2019 Draft[edit]

RoundPick #OverallNamePositionCollege
11212Rashan GaryDefensive TackleMichigan
12121Darnell Savage Jr.SafetyMaryland
21244Elgton JenkinsCenterMississippi State
31275Jace SternbergerTight EndTexas A&M
512150Kingsley KekeDefensive EndTexas A&M
612185Ka'dar HollmanCornerbackToledo
622194Dexter WilliamsRunning BackNotre Dame
712226Ty SummersLinebackerTCU

2020 Draft[edit]

RoundPick #OverallNamePositionCollege
12626Jordan LoveQuarterbackUtah State
23062A. J. DillonRunning backBoston College
33094Josiah DeguaraTight endCincinnati
530175Kamal MartinLinebackerMinnesota
613192Jon RunyanGuardMichigan
629208Jake HansonCenterOregon
630209Simon StepaniakGuardIndiana
722236Vernon ScottSafetyTCU
728242Jonathan GarvinDefensive endMiami (FL)
@Boris posted:

Need you to define "impact player" Assuming you mean Jaire & Jenkins but we also have some starters in Savage & MVS. Not to mention Gary who has been playing better this season.

I really don't think it's as bad as some are making it out to be. I guess a single blowout loss will do that though.

MVS is not a starter.  He just happens to be starting.

@pkr_north posted:

I don't like the 'fake' of dropping guys like 91 into coverage...I mean wtf is that?  he ain't covering anyone...is he that bad of a rusher?...I also saw 90 dropping into coverage? again, just a waste of air at that point, and we are down a man where it counts,...

They had Kenny Clark drop into coverage at least twice that I noticed. Not a fan of that at all.

I'm not President of the Pettine fan club by any means, but I'm not as ready to give up on him like some are.  I guess seeing a revolving door at D-Coordinator for a long time and seeing in general how tough it is to coach defense in the NFL nowadays has me more willing to let Pettine try to work things out.

I think of the days of when the D-Coordinator moved from Fritz Shurmur (who was very good but ready to retire) to Emmitt Thomas to Ed Donatell to Bob Slowick to Jim Bates to Bob Sander and finally we win a Super Bowl with none other than.... the Dominator Dom Capers.  That right there should tell you how hard it is to find a D-Coordinator, and even if you have a good one like Dom was at that time, the message gets old eventually and you have to move on.

Some of the best defenses I have seen in the past 20 years were led by guys that have "lost their shine" as time has gone on.  From Marvin Lewis to Dan Quinn to Dom Capers to Romeo Crennel to Matt Patricia.... on and on, it just seems like even the guys that have been the most successful D-Coordinators only were able to do it at a high level for a short time and with sort of a magical mix of personnel.  Bill Belichick of course is the exception, but I don't think he's willing to come to the Pack to replace Pettine.

Edit:  Forgot about Dick LeBeau, but at aged 83.... I think he probably just wants to chill out at this point in life instead of trying to turn Ty Summers into a Pro Bowl caliber ILB. 

Last edited by fightphoe93
@Henry posted:

MVS is not a starter.  He just happens to be starting.

Unfortunately, you’re right.  The more I see of him, the less impressed I am.  He’s a decent #4 receiver, but as a 2 or 3 his inconsistency really stands out.  He’s got raw speed that Alan Lazard can only dream of, but Lazard is much better in every other facet of the game.  We miss Lazard as the #2 wideout.

@Boris posted:

Need you to define "impact player" Assuming you mean Jaire & Jenkins but we also have some starters in Savage & MVS. Not to mention Gary who has been playing better this season.

I would think Jaire and Elgton  are the only guys you could call "difference makers" so far.   Again, early in his regime, but that's the list after 28 Gutekunst draft picks to date.

Pettine is definitely suspect, but he's had to deal with suspect talent at the DL and ILB positions.

Last edited by Packdog
@PackerHawk posted:

Anyone for Zimmer? No? Yeah, didn't think so.

He's the defensive equivalent of Mike McCarthy.

Zimmball is generally pretty good wherever it goes, he’s just an asshole. His scheme seemed to frustrate Rodgers when he had all his horses. At a minimum he knows how to find an ILB!

Gotta go find a young, hungry up and comer to take over. He exists somewhere, they get found every year. I would look to college honestly, Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray are the future, gotta be able to defend all different things they do. College coaches have been defending it for 20 years.

Zimmball is generally pretty good wherever it goes, he’s just an asshole. His scheme seemed to frustrate Rodgers when he had all his horses. At a minimum he knows how to find an ILB!

Gotta go find a young, hungry up and comer to take over. He exists somewhere, they get found every year. I would look to college honestly, Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray are the future, gotta be able to defend all different things they do. College coaches have been defending it for 20 years.

Jim Leonard, the Badgers DC, could be one of those guys.

@mrtundra posted:

Jim Leonard, the Badgers DC, could be one of those guys.

I seriously would love Leonhard and not because it's Badger homer crap.  He's always had to play smart.  He's got some good defensive chops.  He just seems like the kind of guy who knows what it takes to play the defense and could really bring some innovative stuff.

Last edited by Henry

So I don’t know where the radio guys get their stats from but there is 1 that is a concern for the D going forward.  Supposedly after 5 games last year, the number of QB pressures by the D was around 140 pressures.  This year the number is closer to 70 QB pressures.

If that’s correct, wow that is a huge decline in performance.  Let’s hope that gets turned around soon.  They need to get some pressures on Watson this week as he does have a number of receivers that can take it the distance.

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