Is Garfunkelnuts a neutered GM?

As soon as I heard about how the new structure was gonnna work I just got flasbacks of the 70s and 80s that made my skin crawl. But, it does seem like Gute is allowed to spend money which is a good sign

They left because they didn't get the GM position, it's not more complicated than that. Wolf Sr. was pissed his boy didn't get the big job. I don't think the new structure is about giving MM more juice, I think it's about giving MM more accountability. By all accounts MM have control over nothing other than coaching, but he has zero excuses now. He's getting the roster he wants. In my mind he went to Murphy and said TT wasn't taking any of his or his coaches input on roster needs, so Murphy broke up that silo so the GM couldn't ignore him anymore. That's what I think happened. MM is a football guy, I don't see him wanting more control like Holmgren or Gruden. I think he just wants the GM to listen when he says what he wants. 

I do agree that it's probably a more neutered GM position compared to other GM roles in the league. Gute has final say on all personnel, but not the cap (I think? Not sure what Ball's role is?). I think that's okay for a young GM. If MM is fired I think the GM will be given control over the hiring and firing of the HC, I think with a veteran coach it needs to be more of a collaboration though. 

Agree with the above.  I wouldn't worry about McCarthy having more power.  More power equals more accountability, and that equals a greater chance for failure.

I agree with the zero excuses and accountability aspect but now you've got more hands in the personnel acquisition department.  In the immortal words of Gene Belcher, "Could be great.  Could be a disaster."

More than anything, I don't trust Murphy.

As far as Wolf and Highsmith, they made lateral moves so it's a legit question.

I'm also calling for a boycott of the term "silos".

I don't think he necessarily has his hand in the personnel department, but I think he's finally able to say "I want a TE like Jimmy Graham" or "I want a veteran CB int the group" and the GM listens. Really I think epitome in the change of philosophy is the drafting of Jaire Alexander. NO WAY does TT even sniff at Alexander because of his height, but I think the scouts say this guy is legit, Pettine and/or MM say they love him, and the GM goes and gets him. That would have happened last year with TJ Watt, that's the biggest change. Proven with potential over just potential. 

can we use "buckets"?

Henry posted:

I'm also calling for a boycott of the term "silos".

Where will I store my rocket!

Grave Digger posted:

They left because they didn't get the GM position,

Yup - I was really unhappy losing Highsmith.

Perhaps Reggie McKenzie will come back in some capacity in 2019?

El-Ka-Bong posted:

can we use "buckets"?

I prefer "granary".

bvan posted:

Henry posted:

I'm also calling for a boycott of the term "silos".

Where will I store my rocket!

Keep in in yer pants! 

PackerHawk posted:

bvan posted:

Henry posted:

I'm also calling for a boycott of the term "silos".

Where will I store my rocket!

Keep in in yer pants! 

I've known you for more than 20 years, and NOW you tell me, when it doesn't make much difference anymore.
Anyway, my pants ain't near big enough...
In the morning I need a silo.

What's wrong with the term "silos"? That's all I saw driving from Milwaukee to Green Bay last year. 

Islands 

I don't know where you guys have been, but "silos" has been around for at least 24 years, or the time I first heard the term...shortly after I was hired by a cutting edge Canadian company.  Needless to say, corporate support dipped yesterday.  Hey Tschmack, ain't that far from the Valley!

If you clear the brush from around Silos they look bigger. 

Thats been a WI staple for decades. Has nothing to do with silos. Or brush. 

I was growing a different kind of brush around our silos.

Pigs.

You're all pigs.

It was always going to end here. 

I disagree that he new structure is like the 70s and 80s.  Back then you had the board of directors who all thought they were football people and pushed opinions where they had no business doing so.  The Packers became successful with Ron Wolf and telling the board to run the operations of the team but stay out of the football part of the team.   It was unfortunately how the team was run back then but it isn't now.  I really don' think the GM is neutered  at all if he was he wouldn't be able to make moves like he has to turn things around with the semi mess TT gave him and it will take a little time to restock the roster.

Thanks Bob.

I don't know enough about Murphy to have a strong opinion, but he hasn't been horrible.  Remember the John Jones situation?  Maybe he would have been more successful than Murphy, maybe not. But that was a weird time in Green Bay.

Judge Parrins came to me in a dream last night. He likes the new structure.

Nightmare.

The triangle of authority thing may be little more then smoke and mirrors to keep a lame duck HC quiet and appease him before he's canned in about 4 months.

Yep, I believe that will happen. And when the Packers move on from McStubborn, it would not surprise me to see them go back to a traditional leadership model like they had with Ted when the next HC is hired. 

Judge Reinhold came to me in a dream and told me he shall serve no fries before their time.

packerboi posted:

The triangle of authority thing may be little more then smoke and mirrors to keep a lame duck HC quiet and appease him before he's canned in about 4 months.

Yep, I believe that will happen. And when the Packers move on from McStubborn, it would not surprise me to see them go back to a traditional leadership model like they had with Ted when the next HC is hired. 

More plausible than anything else I've read about McCarthy's/the Packers futures .

Dr._Bob posted:

Judge Reinhold came to me in a dream and told me he shall serve no fries before their time.

*laughs* . . . "**** I'm old."

packerboi posted:

The triangle of authority thing may be little more then smoke and mirrors to keep a lame duck HC quiet and appease him before he's canned in about 4 months.

Yep, I believe that will happen. And when the Packers move on from McStubborn, it would not surprise me to see them go back to a traditional leadership model like they had with Ted when the next HC is hired. 

I'm not sure the original goal was to appease him until they fired him, I think it was to give him everything he wanted as a prove it. Like I said I think he made a convincing case that he hasn't had the team he wants for several years and he could win another SB if he gets it. In my opinion this is likely what we see: 1. if we don't make the playoffs he is fired 2. if they make the playoffs and show improvement then they will evaluate again when his contract is up after 2019 3. if they finish strong, show great improvement, and make a deep playoff run then he will likely get a 3 year extension. That's the logic behind extending through 2019, they're insulated regardless of the outcomes from this season...if they dominate then they already have him signed for another year, if they suck then they're not on the hook for much, and if it's somewhere in between then they bought time to continue evaluation. I think scenario 2 is going to be how it plays out honestly. We will be seeing MM again in 2019.

Here's a devil's advocate question in favor of Murphy's approach.  Harlan set up Wolf to have full control of football operations and it was a success due to his skill.  If GMs in Green Bay almost had their own fiefdom and total failure was the only way to remove them, how much did two HOF QBs cover up what was otherwise really average at best GMs?  Was Sherman average?  Was TT average?  Sherman didn't have much of an excuse considering he was running the whole show.  

Did this arrangement set up 2 Superbowl wins over 25 years with 2 HOF QBs?

Is Murphy setting up a structure where he is more closely involved so he can pull the trigger quicker on who stays and who goes?  That's great in theory and it also leaves the door open for GM and HC squabbles trying to get Murphy's favor.  Murphy, like TT, is a football guy.  Does this translate to proper FO management?  I'm hoping this is a test run while giving McVince the benefit of the doubt.  I don't think the new structure will change even if (hopefully when) McVince is jettisoned. 

We are in Gene Belcher territory. 

I don't think this will be the set up forever. We have a rookie GM and a veteran HC who is teetering on the edge of being done, in some ways I think Murphy is shielding Gute from having to make the call. I imagine IF MM gets fired that Gute will retain full control over the next HC.  

Grave Digger posted:

I don't think this will be the set up forever. We have a rookie GM and a veteran HC who is teetering on the edge of being done, in some ways I think Murphy is shielding Gute from having to make the call. I imagine IF MM gets fired that Gute will retain full control over the next HC.  

I agree that this won't be the set up forever.  If I had to put a managers hat on you set it up that way to make sure that there are as few layers as possible when the organization is in flux with your long time GM stepping down (reassigned or whatever) you have a HC coming off a terrible year a bunch of the front office left, and you have a new GM.  If I have that in my organization I want to pull together and have as few layers as possible.  We don't know what is going on behind the scenes at 1265 so perhaps they all agreed this is the best way to run things.  

Henry posted:

Dr._Bob posted:

Judge Reinhold came to me in a dream and told me he shall serve no fries before their time.

*laughs* . . . "**** I'm old."

 

Henry posted:

 

Did this arrangement set up 2 Superbowl wins over 25 years with 2 HOF QBs?

The arrangement had nothing to do with a **** up QB getting cold and throwing away the opportunity for a Super Bowl.

Not as bad as Reggie in Oakland!

Hungry5 posted:

It’s not a terrible idea.