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I'm still not over how refreshing a change this is:

If there’s one thing Matt LaFleur has shown over his short time as Green Bay Packers head coach, it’s that he doesn’t favor one skill position over another.

 It doesn’t matter if you’re a halfback, fullback, wide receiver or tight end, LaFleur’s offense will get you the ball if you’re open.

 As the last three games have showed – all of them sans star receiver Davante Adams – trying to get the ball to a single player or position isn’t the objective. Identifying a weakness – either the opponent’s or yours – and exploiting it is what matters most.

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This week I am not so much worried about the offense because to me if the Chiefs have one weakness its that their defense can be scored on.  My worry is can the defense step it up and stop giving up so many yards? and can they stop Kelce and Hill from running wild?

Not facing Mahomes is something the Packers may have gotten lucky with but the rest of that offense even without him is still very potent.

For whatever reason, Packers' teams have not fared particularly well in Kansas City over the years.  That said, this a completely different couple of teams from ones that have lost in KC in the past.  The Chiefs gave the 2011 Packers their only regular season loss.  I believe the 2007 team is the only one that I can remember that actually won a game in KC. 

I am going into this game thinking it's going to be high scoring no matter who the QB is.  I remember even in 2017 when Alex Smith was a QB, he was lighting up the scoreboard for much of that season and was an MVP candidate.  He's obviously better than Matt Moore, but it shows that Mahomes isn't the only reason the Chiefs have had a great offense the past few years. 

Yup, still not comfortable with this defense looking so porous at times. I'm starting to see a TE theme here with Ertz, Waller, and now Kelce coming up. I know they miss Savage but hopefully Pettine comes up with some answers.

Per reports, Savage is making "progress" and is doing better, but just like Adams, I am sure they do not want this lingering in December when games will really matter and the Packers are jostling seeding.

They miss his sideline-to-sideline speed. That's what covered much of the "warts" where he could quickly close in on a route and break it up or make it a contested catch. That's what he was doing earlier in the season.

As for KC, their run defense is terrible (minus a better performance against the Broncos) . MLF should be able to run it down their throat and that should set up play action beautifully. With Mahomes, I would have expected an offensive show down with the edge to KC. But now? If the Packers get ahead, they can just step on the gas. And unlike MM, I have full confidence MLF will do just that. 

Ubetcha posted:

Yup, still not comfortable with this defense looking so porous at times. I'm starting to see a TE theme here with Ertz, Waller, and now Kelce coming up. I know they miss Savage but hopefully Pettine comes up with some answers.

I think their best bet is to match up Amos on the TE when we are facing these special guys.    Last week the zone defense killed us as the TE was running completely uncovered a couple times.   (One long TD called back for holding too).

We seemed confused and out of sorts a lot when running zone yesterday.   I'd much rather see them man up, especially against a team like Oak that was weak at WR.    It fits our players skills better IMO.   

Last edited by BrainDed

At least against OAK I know the issue really seemed to be centered on getting pressure. Pettine wasn't getting pressure with 4, so he lost players from coverage and the TE's found the gaps in Zone. We need more help at ILB. I like Martinez, but he doesn't need to be on the field in passing situations and Burks didn't seem like the answer yesterday either. Give him a little more time, but they're hurting for LBs who can support the run and play smart in coverage. Savage and Greene were actually filling these roles really well, which is why when/if both return I don't think we will see this issue pop up again. If we had better depth at CB I'd almost rather see Tramon back at FS and let Amos play closer to the line. Jackson doesn't seem to be cutting it anywhere unfortunately. 

If Mahomes would have been healthy, I'd have expected to have the Chiefs hang 40+ on this Packers defense. Of course, the Chiefs are capable of putting up big numbers against anyone's defense. 

The Packers are likely to score points, the key will be to take advantage of any opportunities that Matt Moore gives you for turnovers that Mahomes wouldn't have given you. Moore is a solid backup QB, but he's thrown for 46 TDs and 36 interceptions in about 1000 pass attempts in his career. Mahomes has 65 TDs and 14 ints in around 850 attempts. 

In large part, the Packers have won two games this year that their defense was run over in terms of yardage because they took advantage of turnover opportunities: Cousin's mistakes and Carr's fumble and interception (although the Packers offense probably would have outscored the Raiders even if they'd have put up the 38 points they probably should have had). If they do the same thing for Moore, they'll have a chance. 

Kelce may have 150 yards though. 

Grave Digger posted:

At least against OAK I know the issue really seemed to be centered on getting pressure. Pettine wasn't getting pressure with 4, so he lost players from coverage and the TE's found the gaps in Zone. We need more help at ILB. I like Martinez, but he doesn't need to be on the field in passing situations and Burks didn't seem like the answer yesterday either. Give him a little more time, but they're hurting for LBs who can support the run and play smart in coverage. Savage and Greene were actually filling these roles really well, which is why when/if both return I don't think we will see this issue pop up again. If we had better depth at CB I'd almost rather see Tramon back at FS and let Amos play closer to the line. Jackson doesn't seem to be cutting it anywhere unfortunately. 

Agreed on ILB help needed. However, part of the reason there was little pressure is because Carr was getting rid of the ball very quickly and that was due in large part because of the zone defense. If they man up in the backfield then maybe Carr has to hold the ball one or two seconds longer and we'd see more pressure or even a couple sacks. . 

I don't care how many yards Kelce or any other Chief gets. As long as the Packer D can hold them to FG instead of TD they can get all the yards they want.  The final score is the only thing that matters.  

Has anyone asked Pettine why they were in zone yesterday? And why didn't they switch to man after getting gashed so much? I know his thing is man so there must have been special circumstances.  Have they played more zone with Savage out?  

DH13 posted:

Has anyone asked Pettine why they were in zone yesterday? And why didn't they switch to man after getting gashed so much? I know his thing is man so there must have been special circumstances.  Have they played more zone with Savage out?  

Maybe a better question would be not why were they in zone, but why did the defense look so confused most of the day? They couldn't get lined up, they were talking as the ball was being snapped. They had blown coverage all day long.

Me thinks that Pettine got out coached from the get go and never caught up with the Raiders offense. Chuckie schooled him.

AtTheMurph posted:
DH13 posted:

Has anyone asked Pettine why they were in zone yesterday? And why didn't they switch to man after getting gashed so much? I know his thing is man so there must have been special circumstances.  Have they played more zone with Savage out?  

Maybe a better question would be not why were they in zone, but why did the defense look so confused most of the day? They couldn't get lined up, they were talking as the ball was being snapped. They had blown coverage all day long.

Me thinks that Pettine got out coached from the get go and never caught up with the Raiders offense. Chuckie schooled him.

There is a reason that Savage starts over Redmond and we saw it yesterday. 

fightphoe93 posted:

For whatever reason, Packers' teams have not fared particularly well in Kansas City over the years.  That said, this a completely different couple of teams from ones that have lost in KC in the past.  The Chiefs gave the 2011 Packers their only regular season loss.  I believe the 2007 team is the only one that I can remember that actually won a game in KC. 

I am going into this game thinking it's going to be high scoring no matter who the QB is.  I remember even in 2017 when Alex Smith was a QB, he was lighting up the scoreboard for much of that season and was an MVP candidate.  He's obviously better than Matt Moore, but it shows that Mahomes isn't the only reason the Chiefs have had a great offense the past few years. 

2011, 2007, etc. have absolutely nothing to do with a game being played in 2019.  

DH13 posted:

So if this is a "former member of the Packers now HC" thing, it means Andy Reid will do the same to Pettine?

Chefs are coming off a Thurs game and will have more time to work on game plan. So I expect Reid to create some really tough things for GB to deal with. 

Chuckie certainly did and I think Reid is a better game planner and play designer. And he has a hell of a lot more weapons to use than Chuckie did. 

FLPACKER posted:
AtTheMurph posted:
DH13 posted:

Has anyone asked Pettine why they were in zone yesterday? And why didn't they switch to man after getting gashed so much? I know his thing is man so there must have been special circumstances.  Have they played more zone with Savage out?  

Maybe a better question would be not why were they in zone, but why did the defense look so confused most of the day? They couldn't get lined up, they were talking as the ball was being snapped. They had blown coverage all day long.

Me thinks that Pettine got out coached from the get go and never caught up with the Raiders offense. Chuckie schooled him.

There is a reason that Savage starts over Redmond and we saw it yesterday. 

Not sure who looked worse, Redmond or Amos.

AtTheMurph posted:
FLPACKER posted:
AtTheMurph posted:
DH13 posted:

Has anyone asked Pettine why they were in zone yesterday? And why didn't they switch to man after getting gashed so much? I know his thing is man so there must have been special circumstances.  Have they played more zone with Savage out?  

Maybe a better question would be not why were they in zone, but why did the defense look so confused most of the day? They couldn't get lined up, they were talking as the ball was being snapped. They had blown coverage all day long.

Me thinks that Pettine got out coached from the get go and never caught up with the Raiders offense. Chuckie schooled him.

There is a reason that Savage starts over Redmond and we saw it yesterday. 

Not sure who looked worse, Redmond or Amos.

Haters gonna hate. 

AtTheMurph posted:
DH13 posted:

Has anyone asked Pettine why they were in zone yesterday? And why didn't they switch to man after getting gashed so much? I know his thing is man so there must have been special circumstances.  Have they played more zone with Savage out?  

Maybe a better question would be not why were they in zone, but why did the defense look so confused most of the day? They couldn't get lined up, they were talking as the ball was being snapped. They had blown coverage all day long.

Me thinks that Pettine got out coached from the get go and never caught up with the Raiders offense. Chuckie schooled him.

Yeah, I agree.  To be fair to Pettine, Gruden was coming off the bye week so not only did he have time to comprehend what the Packers do, he had time to self scout and go to stuff they hadn't shown yet.  

AtTheMurph posted:
DH13 posted:

So if this is a "former member of the Packers now HC" thing, it means Andy Reid will do the same to Pettine?

Chefs are coming off a Thurs game and will have more time to work on game plan. So I expect Reid to create some really tough things for GB to deal with. 

Chuckie certainly did and I think Reid is a better game planner and play designer. And he has a hell of a lot more weapons to use than Chuckie did. 

Agree with this too.   Take the over.    Only thing thats keeping from taking out a 2nd mortgage is the QB isn't as mobile as Mahomes.    If we can get pressure on him, play design won't mean shit. 

AtTheMurph posted:
DH13 posted:

So if this is a "former member of the Packers now HC" thing, it means Andy Reid will do the same to Pettine?

Chefs are coming off a Thurs game and will have more time to work on game plan. So I expect Reid to create some really tough things for GB to deal with. 

Chuckie certainly did and I think Reid is a better game planner and play designer. And he has a hell of a lot more weapons to use than Chuckie did. 

There is one thing that Reid does not have that Chuckie did & that is an outstanding offensive line. 

The Heckler posted:

This week I am not so much worried about the offense because to me if the Chiefs have one weakness its that their defense can be scored on.  My worry is can the defense step it up and stop giving up so many yards? and can they stop Kelce and Hill from running wild?

Not facing Mahomes is something the Packers may have gotten lucky with but the rest of that offense even without him is still very potent.

Never underestimate your opponent. 

They are also #3 in the NFL with a +6 in takeaways. I can't remember the last time they were that high. Under MM's last years, they were dead last or near dead last year after year. That's despite the fact that AR doesn't throw picks.

TouchdownWhitewaterJesus posted:
R MaN posted:

Packers are 4.5 favorites 

Betting lines are used to do one thing, bring in bets.

Sure..  and the ultimate goal that bringing the bets works toward is making money for the Casino.    Therefore it behooves the casino to place a number that will draw equal action on both sides (They win regardless of outcome because they collect the juice or vig, typically 10%).     In other words, an accurate number. 

Last edited by BrainDed
Boris posted:

Did you get the Pack at -3?

Caesars
-4.5
+4.5
GB: -110
KC: -110
48 O/Uo: -110
u: -110
GB: -220
KC: +185
Westgate
-4.5
+4.5
GB: -110
KC: -110
47.5 O/Uo: -110
u: -110
GB: -240
KC: +190
Unibet
-5.5
+5.5
GB: -110
KC: -110
48 O/Uo: -110
u: -110
GB: -238
KC: +190
Betradar
-4.5
+4.5
GB: -113
KC: -108
47.5 O/Uo: -111
u: -110
GB: -224
KC: +179

Oldie but goodie:

Man is arrested on suspicion of driving a SNOWMOBILE drunk after police saw him weaving across the road

[...]

A 55-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of driving a snowmobile drunk after he went out to buy cigarettes.

John Grassl, of Marathon County in Wisconsin, was spotted on his snowmobile weaving along the street.

A police cruiser followed Grassl as he mounted the kerb in his snowmobile.

He told police he had been watching the Green Bay Packers and started drinking.

Following the game, he jumped on his snowmobile to drive to the gas station to buy cigarettes.

Fedya posted:

Oldie but goodie:

Man is arrested on suspicion of driving a SNOWMOBILE drunk after police saw him weaving across the road

[...]

A 55-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of driving a snowmobile drunk after he went out to buy cigarettes.

John Grassl, of Marathon County in Wisconsin, was spotted on his snowmobile weaving along the street.

A police cruiser followed Grassl as he mounted the kerb in his snowmobile.

He told police he had been watching the Green Bay Packers and started drinking.

Following the game, he jumped on his snowmobile to drive to the gas station to buy cigarettes.

Hey! We do what we gotta do around here.

Gsands posted:
Fedya posted:

Oldie but goodie:

Man is arrested on suspicion of driving a SNOWMOBILE drunk after police saw him weaving across the road

[...]

A 55-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of driving a snowmobile drunk after he went out to buy cigarettes.

John Grassl, of Marathon County in Wisconsin, was spotted on his snowmobile weaving along the street.

A police cruiser followed Grassl as he mounted the kerb in his snowmobile.

He told police he had been watching the Green Bay Packers and started drinking.

Following the game, he jumped on his snowmobile to drive to the gas station to buy cigarettes.

Hey! We do what we gotta do around here.

I know I kept waiting for the punch line.

You read it and you go, “Yeah? And?” 

Not buying the “weaving” part either.  Fishtailing maybe.

So the guy had a couple beers & drove home on the snowmobile BFD. I hate how every word, every social media post, everything, is so sensitive now.

Found on internet....

The Packers sure do believe that what we’re seeing with Marques Valdez-Scantling—the size and speed and flashes of dominance—is real. The team also thinks he could eventually become a nightmare to deal with opposite Davante Adams—that is, if he won’t be immediately when Adams gets back in the lineup.

It would explain why Gutey has stood pat with his guys

A preview of the Chefs:

Reasons to worry

The Chiefs are 5-2 and in first place in the AFC West and will be looking to keep pace with the Baltimore Ravens and Indianapolis Colts for the No. 2 seed behind New England and a bye in the conference – especially as they hope Mahomes can return quickly from his scary knee injury. Reid is not just a veteran coach and play designer, he remains one of the game’s more creative offensive minds. He has 10 days to figure out a way to play with Moore under center and take advantage of a Mike Pettine defense that gives up big plays through the air and consistent ground gains.

Despite the huge downgrade at quarterback, the Chiefs still have individual playmakers that don’t suit the Packers well. Figure tight ends Travis Kelce and even Blake Bell (6-6, 252) will be big parts of the game plan. LeSean McCoy, 31, is averaging 5.4 yards per rush and Damien Williams is averaging just 1.7, but Reid may try to dictate pace on the ground as well.

Reasons to relax

No matter Reid or Moore’s experience, this team is without Patrick Mahomes. Arguably the best quarterback in football, the reigning MVP was completing 65% of his throws and had 15 touchdowns against one interception while averaging an eye-popping 9.0 yards per pass attempt. This offense is taking a huge step back.

And defensively, despite all the changes they made on that side of the ball, the Chiefs still aren’t very good at stopping anyone. They rank No. 25 in total defense and No. 13 in scoring defense. They’re one of the worst rushing defenses in the game and conversely are top 10 against the pass – largely because opponents haven’t really had to throw to have some success.

Yes and use the run with both Jones & Jamal.

Aaron needs to continue being his same average game manager self. 😈

On defense this is going to be all about stopping the run & forcing Matt Moore to play QB -- hopefully, as @Dave in GA said, from behind. 

I'd like to see the Zeefense get more sacks this weekend. 

packerboi posted:

I'm still not over how refreshing a change this is:

If there’s one thing Matt LaFleur has shown over his short time as Green Bay Packers head coach, it’s that he doesn’t favor one skill position over another.

 It doesn’t matter if you’re a halfback, fullback, wide receiver or tight end, LaFleur’s offense will get you the ball if you’re open.

 As the last three games have showed – all of them sans star receiver Davante Adams – trying to get the ball to a single player or position isn’t the objective. Identifying a weakness – either the opponent’s or yours – and exploiting it is what matters most.

Link

So, you're saying "We do what works best" is smarter than "We do what we do"?

Joking aside, it is unfathomable how this franchise sat around and watched MM continually bash his head into a brick wall and hope doing the same damn things over and over will work instead of evolving in the slightest.

This stuff about Rodgers falling off a cliff (relatively speaking) after 2014 (which is sorta true stat wise!) was not as much about a regression in Rodgers in my mind and is simply the reality that everyone in this league is pretty freaking smart (even the dummies) and they figure things out.  The league figured out the MM offense, and MM didn't adjust. At all. He just keep bashing the round peg into the square hole and thinking it would eventually fit.

Add in that AR is so damn good and he was able to still be pretty effective even though defenses had this whole thing figured out. That let MM continue in his meatheadedness.  

And, while I know the backups here were never "great" it probably goes a long way in explaining why they were insanely bad to the point that they looked like grade schoolers - the league how to defend this offense every single play, and only the greatness of AR allowed this offense any success at all.  

RANT TIME

Honestly, I cannot get over how how comfortable and complacent and lazy the whole organization got from Top to Bottom.

  • Murphy was worried about nothing but real estate and synergies and revenue and theme parks and branding and let TT check out and ignored his obvious medical issues.
  • TT wanted to simply scout players and...scout players. He regressed at that, checked out, had medical issues, and let MM do whatever the hell he wanted.
  • MM just played his bullshit macho Pittsburgh schtick and kept doing the same things over and over and over because it worked in 2011. 
  • And they all wasted 4-5 years of the best QB to ever play GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

It's literally criminal what happened at 1265 2015-2018

Please don't single cover Travis Kelce with Blake Martinez or Goodson.  Watching Martinez, Goodson, and Redmond cover the middle of the field(and be confused) against the Raiders was mind-boggling.

Should be fun to watch Zaire against the Cheetah. Safety help !! 

Packer Offense needs to exert their will against this Chiefs defense. Reid is going to score even with a crap QB.

From a fan standpoint, bummer we dont get to see Mahomes. 

From ESPN's KC beat writer, just posted:

@adamteicher: Pat Mahomes will practice today. Not sure how much he will do. Matt Moore will get most of snaps

Misdirection from Andy. 

Last edited by ilcuqui
ilcuqui posted:

From ESPN's KC beat writer, just posted:

@adamteicher: Pat Mahomes will practice today. Not sure how much he will do. Matt Moore will get most of snaps

Misdirection from Andy. 

It would not surprise me a bit if Mahomes plays.  The results of the MRI were the best possible and he is young enough that recovery from swelling and inflammation is pretty quick.  They are going to wrap it with a brace and let him go.  I think it was Doc Benni who first said he would probably be able to play this week.  

Reid isn't playing games.... The League told him not to rule out Mahomes. 

Think guys

Do you all have any idea how BAD the league wanted this matchup?

It's not like they play each other twice a year

Last edited by Boris
FLPACKER posted:
AtTheMurph posted:
DH13 posted:

So if this is a "former member of the Packers now HC" thing, it means Andy Reid will do the same to Pettine?

Chefs are coming off a Thurs game and will have more time to work on game plan. So I expect Reid to create some really tough things for GB to deal with. 

Chuckie certainly did and I think Reid is a better game planner and play designer. And he has a hell of a lot more weapons to use than Chuckie did. 

There is one thing that Reid does not have that Chuckie did & that is an outstanding offensive line. 

Agreed. But Reid has that speed that Oak certainly didn't. Speed kills.

Playing Mahomes this week would be coaching (and general manager) malpractice. If he stays even remotely healthy, he's a superstar for the next 10 years. 

This is the equivalent of the Brewers saying that Yelich would have been available for the wild card game. 

I'm sure Mahomes could stand in there and throw, but one hit and he'd be at huge risk. 

No matter who loses this game, it will mean little in the grand scheme for both teams. 

The League & NBC are definitely trying to pump it up as a Super Bowl preview.

I'm disappointed because I wanted to see the 2 real MVP's go at it. If you remember the Rams / Chiefs game last year -- This one had all the makings of being eerily similar. Oh well

I think the whole "Mahomie may play" is just propaganda. If he does it means the initial injury report was out and out fabricated with its exaggeration. 

If they are dumb enough to play him coming off the injury, he is risking further damage. 1/2 of his game (his mobility) will be seriously diminished.

 31m31 minutes ago

 WR Davante Adams took part in warmups for the first time since injuring his toe. But that was it. S Darnell Savage (ankle) and TE Robert Tonyan (hip) were back practicing. Aaron Rodgers, Bryan Bulaga, Jimmy Graham and Tramon Williams appear to be on vet rest.

Caution not to look too far into this, but Packers receiver Davante Adams went through the stretching period at start of practice for first time since injuring his toe vs. Philly. Adams went inside the Don Hutson Center (presumably to further rehab) immediately after stretching, but that is progress. Even more progress: rookie safety Darnell Savage Jr. (ankle) and tight end Robert Tonyan (hip) returned to practice. Neither had participated since dropping out of the Cowboys game with injuries. It was a light, walkthrough practice today, but still promising.

Yeah, Adams is a cancer. Make him a healthy scratch. 

Getting Savage and Tonyan back would be huge. Hopeful on Adams. 

Everyone saw Mahomes dislocated knee get popped back into place on national TV. There's no "fake news" happening here. Reid would be opening himself up to intense scrutiny if he put his franchise player back out on the field too soon. He would look as bad as Shannahan handling RG III. 

PackerHawk posted:

Yeah, Adams is a cancer. Make him a healthy scratch. 

Getting Savage and Tonyan back would be huge. Hopeful on Adams. 

Everyone saw Mahomes dislocated knee get popped back into place on national TV. There's no "fake news" happening here. Reid would be opening himself up to intense scrutiny if he put his franchise player back out on the field too soon. He would look as bad as Shannahan handling RG III. 

I can’t see him playing

Frankie Baggadonuts posted:

I dont want Adams playing either.  We're more unpredictable and balanced without him.  

Frankie, Frankie, Frankie.

I don’t believe you, you don’t believe you and the x4 does not believe you.

Send our loathe to Jaymo.

Just watch.  When Adams comes back and Rodgers locks on him most of the game, the stale will return. Any trust and rapport Rodgers developed in other weapons will wither.  We will be reminiscing about the glory days of weeks 5-8.

Frankie Baggadonuts posted:

Just watch.  When Adams comes back and Rodgers locks on him most of the game, the stale will return. Any trust and rapport Rodgers developed in other weapons will wither.  We will be reminiscing about the glory days of weeks 5-8.

"We".

Dumb ass smurfs.

Looks like you worked up a new narrative for the KumerJanis ding dongs.

Last edited by Henry
Frankie Baggadonuts posted:

Just watch.  When Adams comes back and Rodgers locks on him most of the game, the stale will return. Any trust and rapport Rodgers developed in other weapons will wither.  We will be reminiscing about the glory days of weeks 5-8.

Pretty much the opposite.  

It was the whole offense that wasn't in sync yet.  Rodgers said so, and said up front he would be relying on Adams until it got up and running.   He warned everyone of that ahead of time.

Now that it's working, he'll just be going where the play is supposed to go, with our best receiver back.  It's perfect.

Last edited by Pistol GB
Frankie Baggadonuts posted:

Just watch.  When Adams comes back and Rodgers locks on him most of the game, the stale will return. Any trust and rapport Rodgers developed in other weapons will wither.  We will be reminiscing about the glory days of weeks 5-8.

I think Rodgers is too intelligent to allow this.  MLF will certainly not be an advocate.

I don't get this at all.

Frankie Baggadonuts posted:

Just watch.  When Adams comes back and Rodgers locks on him most of the game, the stale will return. Any trust and rapport Rodgers developed in other weapons will wither.  We will be reminiscing about the glory days of weeks 5-8.

it is blasphemy even for a troll to use that picture.  

Anyhow what you said will not happen.  AR is getting comfortable in the offense and probably is just getting rolling with how good it can be.  

 

 

 

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