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If GB can get to 6-1, a realistic goal,  it puts WAY less pressure to have to win at KC and/or at LA. Lions are at home. Rodgers is adjusting to and beginning to flourish more and more in this offense. The defense is creating mass take-aways. 

It's a division game and the Packers get an extra day to rehab. They should win this, periodT.

Last edited by packerboi

With the current standings the Packers only have x teams with losing records on their schedule. 

Broncos 1-4 (Home)
Chargers 2-3 (Road)
Giants 2-3 (Road)
Redskins 0-5 (Home)

Basically we got one gimme all year long.   Broncos are better than that 1-4 (Every loss they have is against team with winning record) and the Giants are much improved with Jones vs Eli.  

Imagine being the Pats and getting Miami and Jets twice a year, every year.   If / when, we make the dance we will be battle tested. 

Last edited by BrainDed
packerboi posted:

If GB can get to 6-1, a realistic goal,  it puts WAY less pressure to have to win at KC and/or at LA. Lions are at home. Rodgers is adjusting to and beginning to flourish more and more in this offense. The defense is creating mass take-aways. 

It's a division game and the Packers get an extra day to rehab. They should win this, periodT.

Last time I checked, to get to 6-1 you first have to get to 5-1. The Lions D is legit. The offense tore up GB last year scoring 61 total points.

GB is going to have to show up, create turnovers, take care of the ball and be able to run. That last thing is what scares me. Det has that big D line and GB struggles with big, strong D-Linemen.

BrainDed posted:

With the current standings the Packers only have x teams with losing records on their schedule. 

Broncos 1-4 (Home)
Chargers 2-3 (Road)
Giants 2-3 (Road)
Redskins 0-5 (Home)

Basically we got one gimme all year long.   Broncos are better than that 1-4 (Every loss they have is against team with winning record) and the Giants are much improved with Jones vs Eli.  

Imagine being the Pats and getting Miami and Jets twice a year, every year.   If / when, we make the dance we will be battle tested. 

Does x mean 4?

The Loins tied the Cardinals, barely beat a bad Chargers team, beat the Eagles (OK, something the Packers couldn't do), and lost in a shootout with the Chefs...a game that holds a little less glimmer after last night's KC loss to Indy.

We've spit in the eye of Da Bears, Vajeens and Cowboys...two of those on the road.

I like our chances.

September doesn't tell us anything anymore.  I still don't know what to make of this team as a whole, record or no record.  They're finding ways to win which is always a good sign.  But we'll see if they can keep that up once the unscouted looks expire.

Last edited by DH13
DH13 posted:

DET still struggling with being up and down all season.  Can easily lose to them if they're up but who knows what we'll get next week.

Detroit goes with Stafford. He's a very similar guy to Dak Prescott. He can make some beautiful throws, but he'll give you some chances every game for turnovers. The Lions will probably get their yards, it's whether the Packers defense can do what they did against the Cowboys, Vikings, and Bears  - force turnovers and capitalize on them. 

AtTheMurph posted:
packerboi posted:

If GB can get to 6-1, a realistic goal,  it puts WAY less pressure to have to win at KC and/or at LA. Lions are at home. Rodgers is adjusting to and beginning to flourish more and more in this offense. The defense is creating mass take-aways. 

It's a division game and the Packers get an extra day to rehab. They should win this, periodT.

Last time I checked, to get to 6-1 you first have to get to 5-1. The Lions D is legit. The offense tore up GB last year scoring 61 total points.

GB is going to have to show up, create turnovers, take care of the ball and be able to run. That last thing is what scares me. Det has that big D line and GB struggles with big, strong D-Linemen.

One of our Viking buddies with his "great and unmatched wisdom"  disagrees. 

"Detroit’s offense is sneaky good right now and will be a good test. Their defense is terrible, but if they can control the ball on offense, I can see them running their dominance over green bay to a 5 game win streak."

We may wind up playing the Lions much like the Cowboys; emphasizing the run to help neutralize their pass rush, and taking away the run on defense, and force them to throw to expose a very mobility-impaired QB to our own rush.
I'd hope we can again score early and make their offense unbalanced.

Key with Stafford has always been to make him uncomfortable in the pocket. If he is he'll be erratic and throw it up for grabs; if he's not he can carve up a defense with the best of them.

Smith Brothers need to have a productive night.

Packiderm posted:
AtTheMurph posted:
packerboi posted:

If GB can get to 6-1, a realistic goal,  it puts WAY less pressure to have to win at KC and/or at LA. Lions are at home. Rodgers is adjusting to and beginning to flourish more and more in this offense. The defense is creating mass take-aways. 

It's a division game and the Packers get an extra day to rehab. They should win this, periodT.

Last time I checked, to get to 6-1 you first have to get to 5-1. The Lions D is legit. The offense tore up GB last year scoring 61 total points.

GB is going to have to show up, create turnovers, take care of the ball and be able to run. That last thing is what scares me. Det has that big D line and GB struggles with big, strong D-Linemen.

One of our Viking buddies with his "great and unmatched wisdom"  disagrees. 

"Detroit’s offense is sneaky good right now and will be a good test. Their defense is terrible, but if they can control the ball on offense, I can see them running their dominance over green bay to a 5 game win streak."

We need to stop their WRs, and stifle Kerryon Johnson's run game. Stat Padford will give us an INT, to two, per usual. Chandon, Darnell(if he plays) and Kevin may pad their stats in this game. I hope the Smiths, the new Williams guy and Fackrell pad their stats, too.

Last edited by mrtundra

If it wasn't for you guys here at X4, I'd have no clue about Skip Clueless.

Ratings are down....Bash on anything/everything Packers. That'll get em back up there

Boris posted:

If it wasn't for you guys here at X4, I'd have no clue about Skip Clueless.

Ratings are down....Bash on anything/everything Packers. That'll get em back up there

Cowherd does the same thing, those two are like two peas in a pod and not worth the attention they get

Reasons to relax

The Lions may not be that good. They blew a 17-point lead in Week 1 to tie Arizona and had a late 30-27 lead over Kansas City before losing in a game where they turned over in the red zone twice. In their three-point win over the Los Angeles Chargers, they took advantage of the Chargers' punter missing two field goals. And the Eagles gave up a kick return touchdown in the Lions’ three-point win in Philadelphia. On the year, Detroit has turned it over six times and had a field goal blocked.

Though Detroit has beaten Green Bay in two straight seasons at Lambeau Field and three times out of the last four, it has not been a kind venue for the Lions in the long history of the rivalry (27-59-4). And, the Packers haven’t lost at home to the Lions with Aaron Rodgers playing a full game under center since 2015. In fact, Rodgers is 7-1 in games he has started and finished against the Lions at home.

Detroit also hasn’t figured itself out on defense yet. They are No. 27 overall, but No. 20 against the run and give up 4.8 yards per carry. They rank 30th against the pass and are No. 20 in points allowed.

https://www.jsonline.com/story...ead-line/3906404002/

Just read a notification from ESPN saying the Loins are set up to beat the Packers this week. Also saw they had Philly picked over the vikings because of Philly's pass rush. I would have read more but I did not want to subscribe to ESPN for $5.00/ month.  They are just not worth it. Packers 24 Loins 17.

Last edited by mrtundra
mrtundra posted:

Just read a notification from ESPN saying the Loins are set up to beat the Packers this week. Also saw they had Philly picked over the vikings because of Philly's pass rush. I would have read more but I did not want to subscribe to ESPN for $5.00/ month.  They are just not with it. Packers 24 Loins 17.

Anything to do with BSPN that costs more than 0.00 means you're getting fucked in ways you would never find acceptable.  Your choice on the blanks.

Good choice.

Fuck the Loins.  

As FiveThirtyEight staff writer Josh Hermsmeyer explored this offseason, Rodgers’s once-historic levels of efficiency and effectiveness have dropped in recent years, especially with intermediate throws and play-action passes. Several analysts have noted that his longtime tendency to throw the ball away rather than risk throwing an interception now seems to be yielding negative returns. After Week 5, Rodgers ranks 22nd in passer rating, 25th in touchdown rate, 14th in QBR and 15th in net yards per attempt.

In the same postgame comments, Rodgers dismissed concerns about the offense not scoring late against Dallas by emphasizing the team’s win rather than his own numbers. “Days like today aren’t the best statistical games for myself, but I feel like [I] played my best game,” he said. “The way I kept moving and seeing things. I’ve accomplished a lot statistically in this league. I just want to win now.”

But even this doesn’t make sense. If Rodgers were choosing to focus on winning instead of excelling statistically, he wouldn’t be putting up monster first-half numbers and floundering toward the end, when opponents are trying to claw back into the game. If anything, it would be the other way around.

From the comments: The Packers have played the 4th, 5th, 6th and 10th best defences in the total yards allowed, and the 3rd, 5th, and 7th best defences in points allowed. Rodgers has a new coaching staff to work with as well.

The biggest problem so far for the offense is sustaining drives.  3rd down efficiency since Week 1 is: 17% (2/12), 33%, (5/15), 22% (2/9), 55% (6/11) and 25% (3/12).  Once they've gotten into the red zone, they have been very good, with the Eagles being the outlier.  This offense is improving and players are getting more comfortable with it.  The run game looked much improved against Dallas.  If the D can clamp down on the run a bit better, I think they'll be all right.

YATittle posted:

 

But even this doesn’t make sense. If Rodgers were choosing to focus on winning instead of excelling statistically, he wouldn’t be putting up monster first-half numbers and floundering toward the end, when opponents are trying to claw back into the game. If anything, it would be the other way around.

How does this make any sense if you jump out to a big lead?  Isn't that the goal to start every game, to score? "It would be the other way around"?  So don't score early in the game just so you can "finish strong"?  Jeebus that's lucid.

I'd like to see scoring comparisons for other QB's on teams that jumped ahead early in games.

1) 5 games is not a huge sample size when you're talking about 43 passes. 

2) He's faced the pass defenses ranked 8, 9, 10, 11, and 14 in QB rating and 2, 5, 7, 10, and 13 in overall points allowed. 

3) 3 of the games he went a combined 11/14 and 115 yards for a 100 passer rating. Against MIN and PHI he went 16/29, 137 yards, and 1 INT for a 53 rating.

It's more honest to say he's had 2 bad games against really good defenses in Q4 this season than it is to say he's been bad in Q4 this season. He's taking care of the ball overall and we're 3rd in the league in Q4 time of possession. I'm sure everyone would love him to go for the throat, but he's actually being smart with the ball. The defense allowing late points isn't an Aaron Rodgers issue, it's probably a depth issue on defense. Our 1st string front 7 plays a high % of the overall snaps, they might be getting gassed by Q4 (especially KC who is playing A LOT of snaps). 

Last edited by Grave Digger
Pistol GB posted:

Yes but, but, numbers crunchers know everything!

You watch the games, you know:  Rodgers is playing good football.

Yes, we can say Rodgers is playing good ball.  But the difference is that he doesn't seem to be playing "Rodgers good" , like the kind of play we saw with the back shoulder throws to Jordy, or that ridiculous pass to Jared Cook to essentially win the 2016 playoff game vs the Cowboys, or that laser dart to Jennings to get a first down and ice the Steelers in the Super Bowl. 

RochNyFan posted:
Pistol GB posted:

Yes but, but, numbers crunchers know everything!

You watch the games, you know:  Rodgers is playing good football.

Yes, we can say Rodgers is playing good ball.  But the difference is that he doesn't seem to be playing "Rodgers good" , like the kind of play we saw with the back shoulder throws to Jordy, or that ridiculous pass to Jared Cook to essentially win the 2016 playoff game vs the Cowboys, or that laser dart to Jennings to get a first down and ice the Steelers in the Super Bowl. 

He also had thousands of more reps with Jordy and Jennings relative to the non-Adams WRs in practice, and more importantly, in live games. I don't think the non-Adams receivers are anywhere near the level of Jordy or Jennings in terms of talent, but it's still unfair to Rodgers and them to expect them to have the same chemistry as guys who played multiple years with Rodgers had. 

But even this doesn’t make sense. If Rodgers were choosing to focus on winning instead of excelling statistically, he wouldn’t be putting up monster first-half numbers and floundering toward the end, when opponents are trying to claw back into the game. If anything, it would be the other way around.

Wow, it doesn't get much dumber than this.   Did it ever occur to this numb skull that throwing the ball away when ahead in the 2nd half is wiser than throwing the ball away when tied in the 1st half?   Taking some risk off the table while up is all about putting the team in the best position to win. 

The other way?  So he should play it safe in 1st half then go Stat Paddford in the 2nd half when chasing 14?   

What a dipshit. 

Last edited by BrainDed

I'm not in favor of overpaying for a vet WR in trade... and I don't think we should ignore the receiving corp turnover the past few years. I like the guys they have after Adams, and I expect they will improve along with the entire offense as the season progresses. 

GB is going to boat race Detroit Monday. night. If J Williams goes it's worse than a boat race. 

Rodgers is slowly finding his way to lethal in this offense. And it ain't via stats. He's going to kill teams when they allow him to do so. Different QB that we've watched. Smarter. But he's every bit as good as he ever was. 

Hungry5 posted:

I'm not in favor of overpaying for a vet WR in trade... and I don't think we should ignore the receiving corp turnover the past few years. I like the guys they have after Adams, and I expect they will improve along with the entire offense as the season progresses. 

After Adams, I like MVS and EQ. Not sure any of the rest are more than practice squad material. EQ was a big loss IMO.

ChilliJon posted:

GB is going to boat race Detroit Monday. night. If J Williams goes it's worse than a boat race. 

Rodgers is slowly finding his way to lethal in this offense. And it ain't via stats. He's going to kill teams when they allow him to do so. Different QB that we've watched. Smarter. But he's every bit as good as he ever was. 

I agree on him playing smarter than ever. Before the INT against Philly I really expected him to go an entire season without an INT. He only threw 2 last year. 

ChilliJon posted:

GB is going to boat race Detroit Monday. night. If J Williams goes it's worse than a boat race. 

Rodgers is slowly finding his way to lethal in this offense. And it ain't via stats. He's going to kill teams when they allow him to do so. Different QB that we've watched. Smarter. But he's every bit as good as he ever was. 

Detroit is really coming on ...they are buying in with Patricia

Ain't gonna be no boat racin

oldschool posted:
ChilliJon posted:

GB is going to boat race Detroit Monday. night. If J Williams goes it's worse than a boat race. 

Rodgers is slowly finding his way to lethal in this offense. And it ain't via stats. He's going to kill teams when they allow him to do so. Different QB that we've watched. Smarter. But he's every bit as good as he ever was. 

Detroit is really coming on ...they are buying in with Patricia

Ain't gonna be no boat racin

You teach Patricia the art of coaching? Howe to canoe race using river currents? 

Hungry5 posted:

What's the status on Williams, Savage, Adam's, etc...

Per Wes Hodkiewicz:

Davante Adams and Tony Brown were present but not practicing #Packers.

BJ Goodson, Corey Linsley (in concussion protocol) and Jamaal Williams (cleared concussion protocol) were all practicing.

Didn’t see Darnell Savage or Robert Tonyan.

edit: just after I posted the official injury report for today came out. 

https://www.packers.com/news/i...kers-vs-lions-week-6

Last edited by PackerHawk
13X posted:
Hungry5 posted:

I'm not in favor of overpaying for a vet WR in trade... and I don't think we should ignore the receiving corp turnover the past few years. I like the guys they have after Adams, and I expect they will improve along with the entire offense as the season progresses. 

After Adams, I like MVS and EQ. Not sure any of the rest are more than practice squad material. EQ was a big loss IMO.

I think he was a big loss as well.  Huge catch radius and smart player.

ChilliJon posted:
oldschool posted:
ChilliJon posted:

GB is going to boat race Detroit Monday. night. If J Williams goes it's worse than a boat race. 

Rodgers is slowly finding his way to lethal in this offense. And it ain't via stats. He's going to kill teams when they allow him to do so. Different QB that we've watched. Smarter. But he's every bit as good as he ever was. 

Detroit is really coming on ...they are buying in with Patricia

Ain't gonna be no boat racin

You teach Patricia the art of coaching? Howe to canoe race using river currents? 

I think the difference will be our pass rush. Stafford will be hurried to get rid of the ball giving our DBs INT opportunities. Rodgers playing well only adds to loins misery. GO PACK, GO!

YATittle posted:

As FiveThirtyEight staff writer Josh Hermsmeyer explored this offseason, Rodgers’s once-historic levels of efficiency and effectiveness have dropped in recent years, especially with intermediate throws and play-action passes. Several analysts have noted that his longtime tendency to throw the ball away rather than risk throwing an interception now seems to be yielding negative returns. After Week 5, Rodgers ranks 22nd in passer rating, 25th in touchdown rate, 14th in QBR and 15th in net yards per attempt.

In the same postgame comments, Rodgers dismissed concerns about the offense not scoring late against Dallas by emphasizing the team’s win rather than his own numbers. “Days like today aren’t the best statistical games for myself, but I feel like [I] played my best game,” he said. “The way I kept moving and seeing things. I’ve accomplished a lot statistically in this league. I just want to win now.”

But even this doesn’t make sense. If Rodgers were choosing to focus on winning instead of excelling statistically, he wouldn’t be putting up monster first-half numbers and floundering toward the end, when opponents are trying to claw back into the game. If anything, it would be the other way around.

I disagree. It is because Rodgers is trying to win rather than pad stats that the 2nd half numbers are worse.

He's had leads in every game but Philly at the half (down 1 pt). He doesn't need nor should he try to fling the ball all over the field in such situations. Ending the game with the lead is the goal. And when you have the lead the quicker the game ends the better.

I don't think Rodgers is making audibles out of run call nearly as much as he did with MM. I also think the terribly predictable routes the Packers used to run had a great effect on Rodgers efficiency ratings quoted in that article.

How tough must it be for a QB to complete a pass to a WR on the sidelines, with a defender closer than a 2nd coat of paint on his back? That was 95% of MMs offense script. He never liked the free running WR but loved to t tough guy one on one where GB told the DB what route they were going to run and tried to complete the pass anyways.

Having some real receiving threats beyond Adams would be nice too. A Jones is finally a RB who can get into space and make something happen. But they need someone else and a TE who can run, catch and doesn't fall down if he gets looked at wrong.

 

NFL.com analytics expert Cynthia Frelund listing the Lions as her "sleeper" team this week and spelling out how Detroit can spring a Monday night upset on Green Bay:

SLEEPER TEAM

Detroit Lions: Despite taking the field without Pro Bowl cornerback Darius Slay and losing stout safety Quandre Diggs in the second quarter, the Lions nearly knocked off the high-flying Chiefs in Week 4, holding reigning MVP Patrick Mahomes without a single completion of 20-plus air yards in a game for the first time in his professional career, per Next Gen Stats. That's an impressive feat, even in a losing effort. And this kind of play bodes well for the 2-1-1 Lions' big "Monday Night Football" showdown with the division rival Packers (4-1) in Lambeau Field. Speaking of attempts of 20-plus air yards, Matthew Stafford has already connected on such passes 11 times in just four games. Last season, he had a total of 19 over the full season. Unsurprisingly, Stafford's air-yards-per-attempt average has gone from 7.0 in 2018 (ranking 31st among qualifying QBs) to 11.1 (first) this season, per NGS.

The Lions win this enticing NFC North bout if two things happen:

1) Detroit's run concepts and O-line keep Stafford free from Green Bay's pressure long enough for him to get vertical.

2) Detroit's defense, which boasts the lowest completion-percentage allowed on third down (44.4 percent), limits big plays (runs of 10-plus yards and passes of 20-plus), especially early in the game.

1) DET's deep ball will be a bigger problem with Savage sidelined...unless the Smiths can get to him often.

2) GB's struggles on 3rd down align well for DET here also.

MLF and the OL need to get Jones going early and often just like in DAL.  The rest of the game can flow from there.  If they can't it will be tough sledding without much of a passing threat.

 

They've played some very good defenses. They've had early leads and held on long enough to win games. I said after Sunday that Rodgers decision making is questionable to me. These ends to games have been too reminiscent of the previous 3-4 years, with the inability to salt the game away. Rodgers is too good to be in such situations week in and week out. 

In retrospect, there is a difference to this. The last yrs of MM the defense couldn't catch a cold. The offense was constantly put in positions of disadvantage, and many times couldn't sustain drives or flip the field which played right into disadvantage for the defense as well. 

The Philly and Dallas games showed that the offense is finding their way. AR and the offense did some really good things against the Eagles, and without DA and JW they were able to exploit the few weaknesses of a good Cowboys D. And maybe I wasn't accounting for how well 12 did having to play within the offense and spread the ball to different guys since he didn't have his security blanket. It might be more appropriate to see this like 4 losing Sharpe and having no choice to adjust and get more people involved. They did a nice job of using the run game, using Graham, Lewis, Tonyan, Jones out of the backfield and taking what was given in order to move the sticks.

It's a 5 game sample size. And maybe I'm guilty of attaching the last years of McCarthy to this new system. I think the past 2 games we are seeing them find their footing, and there will be some warts. I'm still not crazy about some of 12's mechanics and off balance throws. But if the offense is displaying that they're gaining a grasp of things, they deserve the time and opportunity to grow into the system. If AR is efficient and smart with the football, and we have no reason to believe he won't be, the W's will outweigh the style points come December. The same should apply for the defense as well. They were gashed against the Birds, but went to Dallas and helped in a big way to get a sizeable lead.  The one thing that's been evident is that Pettine's schemes are allowing his guys to be in positions to make plays. 4-1 with issues that will get ironed out with gametime reps is a pretty good place to be considering the upheaval of the past year.


Dude is a beast. 

I'm trying to think of the last FA signings we've had that outperformed the expectations fans had of them.  I don't mean unproven young guys who hadn't been given an opportunity yet (Farve, Ahman Green, Ryan Grant, maybe Al Harris) but guys who had been starters or played significant snaps on their previous teams enough to guage your expectations.  Maybe Woodson but he was injured and had shown elite ability before GB.

This is not the Preston Smith you would have seen in WAS.  And Zadarius flashed last year but with fewer snaps and I don't think with his current consistency.  It's kind of crazy.  It's almost always the other way around.  Are they currently the top ranked pass rushing duo in the league?

Last edited by DH13

I think we got what we expected from Reggie.  His best ball was with PHI but he still had plenty left when he was in GB.  Woodson is kind of the same but there were some questions because of his injury and attitude.  Also think we got what expected from Peppers.

Last edited by DH13

I think we got more out of Woodson than we expected. I think some were skeptical of his effectiveness after his injury and personal reputation. I doubt anyone expected him to be a DPOY and an all-time great team leader. 

They got more out of Jared Cook than I expected. He was kind of underutilized by STL and really developed a strong connection with Rodgers. 

packerboi posted:

Cullen Jenkins was a FA pick up right? He exceeded what I thought he'd do. He really was a force on that DL. 

Letting Jenkins walk was a big mistake back in the day.  Made zero sense to me...

Grave Digger posted:

I think we got more out of Woodson than we expected. I think some were skeptical of his effectiveness after his injury and personal reputation. I doubt anyone expected him to be a DPOY and an all-time great team leader. 

They got more out of Jared Cook than I expected. He was kind of underutilized by STL and really developed a strong connection with Rodgers. 

Letting Cook go because we thought Bennett was going to be better is still haunting us. Cook right now is more explosive than Graham. 

PackersWire has a good article on the Turf Toe injury with specific information on the injury from an orthopedic surgeon.

The last paragraph about the injury related to Adams says, "He likely won’t practice much if at all before he plays. In a photo Rob Demovsky tweeted out Friday, Adams was wearing tennis shoes and not a walking boot or hard soles shoe which is actually a very good sign. He very well may play Monday against the Lions. This may not be decided until just before the game when they see how well he can go with the injection, tape and orthosis combined."

Link

Last edited by Pakrz
DH13 posted:

Gilbert Brown but I don't know if he never got a chance in MIN or he didn't perform when he did get one.

Third round pick cut after his first training camp. The Queens just fucked that one up.

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