It's Lions Week

That flaming Turd he had as ST coach last year didn't get fired and it cost us a Super Bowl.

Why would he dump Barry?

lol at MLF

Watch Detroit hang 30+ on these guys.  Barry sucks.  His past coaching history would suggest he sucks.  But hey, keep it rolling!

Yep.

LaFleur is a fool because he doesn’t learn. He hires awful coordinators and then waits until they ruin the season before he finally makes a change. https://t.co/sglAM8eOcx

— Michael Rodney (@PackersNotes) October 31, 2022

I am no fan of Barry, but firing a coordinator mid-season seldom works out well. Best case you see a mild improvement, worst case, the D completely implodes. Risk is not worth the reward.

If you know Barry was a mistake, and really want Fangio, have Gutey back-channel his agent that they want to hire him in the off-season and gauge the interest, talk contract numbers. Get it done as soon as the off-season starts.

As the season wears on, the more I believe Barry is the primary problem. He has an embarrassing wealth of riches to work with...and this unit plays well in stretches at best...and is horrendously bad in others.  12 hasn't played well, MLF hasn't called great games...but given the patchwork OL and WR groups, it's excusable.

Barry has no excuses.

I think those who would advocate moving on from Barry now are essentially saying it sends a message to the team that this defense's performance is simply unacceptable. Which based on the ridiculous amounts of talent, it is.

But yes, even replacing with say Jerry Grey won't likely change this D to a top 5 unit and suddenly the Packers are Super Bowl bound.

Firing Barry now wouldn't prevent the Packers from hiring whomever they really want at season's end. Hell, if Brady actually retires and the Bucs tank, Todd Bowles could suddenly be available.

I'm actually surprised GB's softball media even posed that question to MLF. And his response is pretty much what I thought it would be (see Drayton 2021)

Yup, they lose to Detroit, the season will be lost.  Ugh…….

They won't axe Bowles yet given all the murderous injuries they've had on OL and the fact Tom is going through personal drama, in addition to looking like he's been on a 3 month ghee cleanse...dude has lost serious muscle mass the last year.

A bigger issue right now is the Packers need a WR before the trade deadline. But I doubt it will happen. Gutey is going to ride with the team he currently has. Just a gut feeling I have...

Is it too soon to call for an Aaron Rodgers trade this offseason and demanding Gute find us Love's backup in the first round with our eventual top 5 pick? I'm just trying to think of what Henry would think.

If nothing else, it should be a good game with 2 teams DESPERATE for a win.

I think the Packers are the better team, but Detroit is playing hard and will probably treat this game like their Super Bowl.  

Somehow, some way, I think the Pack wins this one…. but I thought that about the Jets and Commanders games too.

@Chongo posted:

A bigger issue right now is the Packers need a WR before the trade deadline. But I doubt it will happen. Gutey is going to ride with the team he currently has. Just a gut feeling I have...

I would agree. Upcoming losses to Dallas, The Titans, and Eagles (all with winning records) gives them at least 8 losses. Gute may very well envision a top 10 pick in each round of the draft by the end of the season. Something quite doable and pretty sure he would have little desire giving up.

Not upgrading WR seems like a giant fuck you to 12…but maybe that’s part of the plan…

@Chongo posted:

Not upgrading WR seems like a giant fuck you to 12…but maybe that’s part of the plan…

It was just stupid. You do one of two things.

1. Trade Adams and Rodgers and start the Love era (or the tank to get another QB once you evaluate Love over a season)

OR

2. If you extend Rodgers, you have to go out and get NFL-ready WRs and not shop in the bargain aisle. Barring that, at least go get an actual NFL #1 TE (Tonyan is a good #2).

The other thing is there appears to have been an organization mismatch in terms of how the offense and defense fit together.

If you knew that you were going to go to a conservative, run-heavy offense with no real deep threat (or when it became apparent that Watson was going to miss games) you can't run a passive defense. You have to be aggressive on defense in that case. If the other team doesn't feel any pressure to score a lot of points in a track-meet style game, they can not force the issue and the opposing QB can dink and dunk.

I don't like Berry's scheme no matter when you run it, but you only run it when you have a offense like the 2011 Packers where you are going to average 35 a game.

Given the choice of Gutey or Balls as GM, I was pleased they selected him. All things being equal, this is a tallant business, and I'd rather have a guy who has spent his career evaluating players than pouring over spreadsheets.

That said, I believe the current team is a direct reflection on Gutey's ability as a GM...and it's not positive.

The last couple of years when dementia had racked his brain, TT was a very good GM, and IMO, the reason the Packers were so good for so long. Gutey inherited a very talented and deep squad, built largely with the draft and a few key free agents.

Gutey will make some good decisions, but will stack upon them many poor ones.

I was in favor of extending 12, but to MP's point, then you are obligated to get him weapons.

I think offering 17 crazy money wasn't a good move, and maybe it was ceremonial knowing he was already out the door...but the problem remained the same...you needed to get more talent for 12 to throw to. He totally miscalculated the MVS situation, only going hard for him after 17 was clearly leaving...and by then it was over. He then chooses to roll with Lazard, a clear WR3 on his best day, and Sammy Watkins who hasn't made it through an entire season healthy ever.

He then chooses not to re-sign Billy Turner, a proven swing tackle, when he's got a lot of young players on the squad, and his two best OL coming back from knee injuries.

But I don't expect Gutey to be shown the door given WMM is also headed toward retirement...and even so, I don't trust Captain Smow Hill wouldn't just promote Balls, or worse, bring in someone completely inept from the outside.

I think we all miscalculated MVS. Chiefs paid him a lot more than many teams would have offered.

Yeah, those Chiefs do this thing where they surround their top QB with top talent.  Weirdos.

MVS has not earned his pay with the Chiefs. JMHO.

He's  like WR3 or 4.  How much does he need to do?  The other thing is, his speed impact's the offense in ways that don't show up on his stats.  I'm glad GB didn't pay him what he's making but if KC gets to the SB again, who cares?

I think Toure needs more snaps.

@Chongo posted:

Given the choice of Gutey or Balls as GM, I was pleased they selected him. All things being equal, this is a tallant business, and I'd rather have a guy who has spent his career evaluating players than pouring over spreadsheets.

That said, I believe the current team is a direct reflection on Gutey's ability as a GM...and it's not positive.

The last couple of years when dementia had racked his brain, TT was a very good GM, and IMO, the reason the Packers were so good for so long. Gutey inherited a very talented and deep squad, built largely with the draft and a few key free agents.

Gutey will make some good decisions, but will stack upon them many poor ones.

TT was obviously a draft and develop guy to a fault. And until 2014 he was so good at college player evaluations relative to a league average GM that, coupled with having a HOF QB, it was good enough to give the Packers a legit chance to win a Super Bowl every year from 2009-2016. They should have won at least 1 more. You could argue the reason they didn't was that TT just wasn't aggressive enough in adding veteran free agents when it was obvious they were needed. The exceptions to this were outstanding moves - Charles Woodson, Ryan Pickett, and Julius Peppers. But TT was more focused on avoiding those types of signings and, instead, wanted to see if the next UDFA or late-round draft pick would morph into their next major contributor like Tramon Williams or Sam Shields. Imagine how much more of a chance those 2015-16 teams might have had with a good #1 DB instead of Randall, Rollins, and Davon House? Or those 2011-16 teams with a good veteran ILB to replace Brad Jones or AJ Hawk. Or those 2015-16 teams having another veteran WR after Jordy blew out his knee and D. Adams was still developing? Never happened.

Gutey looked good initially because he departed from the TT way and used free agency in 2018 to go out and get some high priced guys to immediately rebuild a very under-talented defense. Preston Smith, Z. Smith, and A. Amos were all home run signings and R. Douglas and D. Campbell were good finds on cheaper deals. Of course, he had the money to do that because he didn't have to account for as many good players from the 2014-2017 draft classes (which is about when TT began to lose it). Kenny Clark, D. Adams, Linsley, Aaron Jones, and Dean Lowry were the only guys he had to plan extensions for and Jones and Lowry are on relatively inexpensive deals. The 2018 draft got them only Alexander - he's the only guy left. But it seems like once Gutey got through his first few years and got his contract extension he morphed back into a TT clone - except he appears to suck at evaluating college talent, especially offensive skill position players.

@DH13 posted:

He's  like WR3 or 4.  How much does he need to do?  The other thing is, his speed impact's the offense in ways that don't show up on his stats.  I'm glad GB didn't pay him what he's making but if KC gets to the SB again, who cares?

Yes. You can't fault the Packers for thinking they could replace a one-dimensional speed WR who would often drop walk-in TD throws 5 yards clear of a DB (MVS) with a 2nd round pick millions of dollars cheaper on the cap (Watson). Literally the first offensive play of the season showed that Watson could do exactly what MVS did. The problem is that he appears to be made of glass so far (I'm talking about the leg injuries - the neck injury was just bad luck).

A bigger problem was thinking you could replace D. Adams with Sammy Watkins. I mean, come on. I think Doubs is going to be good for a long time with more experience, but I don't think the Packers were counting on a 4th round pick to do this. They were counting on Watkins being a credible threat. If they were also counting on Amari Rodgers to make a leap that's even worse.

RTFB...they put up 200 against the Bills..should be able to do that and more against the Loins....(hopefully)

Welcome back Kylin Hill…?

From packers.com:  

While the run game unquestionably had success against the Bills, 90 percent of the rush yard gains were against light boxes.  Still, it is good that LaFleur and Rodgers stuck with it.  I hope Jenkins is back at LG this week because we need beef in the middle.  I like Tom, but he's a tackle. 

Any turnaround has to begin with an intact o-line that has the same starting 5 every week.

@50k Club posted:

While the run game unquestionably had success against the Bills, 90 percent of the rush yard gains were against light boxes. Still, it is good that LaFleur and Rodgers stuck with it.  I hope Jenkins is back at LG this week because we need beef in the middle.  I like Tom, but he's a tackle.

Any turnaround has to begin with an intact o-line that has the same starting 5 every week.

Amazing how great the Packer running game looks when the opposing team is up 3 scores and more than willing to allow them to run and keep the clock moving.

Week before the Commanders held the vaunted running attack to 38 yards on 12 carries.

Sure, they should be able to run against the worst Defense in the NFL, but when they play the following games against legitimate defenses in Dallas, Tenn., and Philly, good luck running with this pathetic group of pass catchers.

@Dave in GA posted:

RTFB...they put up 200 against the Bills..should be able to do that and more against the Loins....(hopefully)

Not every team is going to play 5 DBs the entire game ...even if we play 3 TEs. The Bills are content to play this way because they know: 1) They are going to score a lot of points 2) They are going to get some drive-killing sacks 3) They will stop you sometimes in the red zone. I'm interested to see just what other teams will do if we come out in the same formations we used vs. Bills, my guess would be that they would counter with more "run-stop" packages and I am anxious to see if we can be as successful vs. them.

Is SteveLuke kworst reincarnated?

Asking for a friend. 

Kworst was a better fan.

If it weren’t for YATittle, SteveLuke would be the dumbest son of a bitch on the board.  

I don’t think he’s “dumb” but rather, he’s a one-trick pony. He drones the same thing over and over in every single post.

@Pakrz posted:

If it weren’t for YATittle, SteveLuke would be the dumbest son of a bitch on the board.  

I foresee a thumb down in your future. 

@YATittle posted:

I think Toure needs more snaps.

Bold call considering everyone else is out with the plague

I stand corrected.  SteveLuke is Bill Huber.

@Pakrz posted:

If it weren’t for YATittle, SteveLuke would be the dumbest son of a bitch on the board.  

Trademark infringement reported to the mods.   We all know that title belongs to Ammo.  

The thing is, is that Detroit always plays us tough. Now, they smell blood in the water and are going to be in frenzy mode, come game time.  Never underestimate your opponent. We'll see what OLine fixes MLF and Co. come up with, to protect Rodgers and to open holes for Jones and Dillon. At least TJ Hockenson won't be playing for Detroit, this week. That should make things a bit easier for our Defense. Also, Does anyone here think Caleb Jones will ever see the field, this season?

The puckers will chock!

@ammo posted:

I foresee a thumb down in your future. 

Thank God the last word in that sentence was “future”.

@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:

Bold call considering everyone else is out with the plague

It's like Desmond Bishop all over again. Took forever for the coaching staff to give him a shot on the field. It finally did pay off.

Toure makes me nervous for his physical survival.  He is very slight right now.