Packers Defensive Coordinator (Sole Stealer) Joe Barry is FIRED!!

Holy Shat. That's a lot of talking.

Packers DC Joe Barry said the interview process with LaFleur and the Packers was very thorough.

The first Zoom interview was five hours long. The second was six. In between, he had phone calls that totaled three hours.

— Olivia Reiner (@ReinerOlivia) March 2, 2021

Joe Barry on key to successful D, doesn't mention scheme: "You better have pass rushers, and you better have really good DBs." He says defense can't have enough potential nickel CBs. He's looking forward to seeing if #Packers have "one true nickel" or a few depending on matchups.

— Ryan Wood (@ByRyanWood) March 2, 2021

Barry said the #Packers will run a 3-4 base defense, but he said it's not everything they'll do. He said the amount of nickel the team plays will determine whether they're in 3-4 or 4-3.

— Tom Silverstein (@TomSilverstein) March 2, 2021

Barry said he's proud of his "scars." referring to the tough experiences he's had as a coordinator. "I think that's when true growth takes place," he said of those times. "When you do get those scars and you learn from it, you don't have to wear sleeves and hide it."

— Tom Silverstein (@TomSilverstein) March 2, 2021

It's interesting that all this "finalizing" of the coaching staff happens right after Watt signed with AZ. I wonder if they had slightly different plans on defense if they had landed JJ?

I think 0-16 is more like a tattoo on your forehead than a scar.

Listening to Barry, you can definitely pick up on his energy. He talks ALOT and speaks with a lot of enthusiasm. Now let's see if it translates to Sundays.

He said "you better believe" this defense is going to know how to tackle, know how to wrap up, and know their assignments. Again, it sounds good. Let's see if this defense buys into what he says.

If they let King walk the tackling improves right there.

If you wanna take a listen:

Defensive coordinator Joe Barry meets with the media 🎥 https://t.co/Rd0j4yUQwR

— Green Bay Packers (@packers) March 2, 2021

Waiting for a coach to say "We're going to play slow and forgiving." https://t.co/2y013BFyOe

— Andrew Brandt (@AndrewBrandt) March 2, 2021

Still not a fan of this move

@packerboi posted:

Listening to Barry, you can definitely pick up on his energy. He talks ALOT and speaks with a lot of enthusiasm. Now let's see if it translates to Sundays.

He said "you better believe" this defense is going to know how to tackle, know how to wrap up, and know their assignments. Again, it sounds good. Let's see if this defense buys into what he says.

On the bright side, we could have had Winston Moss as our DC....

If he can improve the attitude and energy and let these guys play then he will succeed. If they play with the same inconsistent effort and boring scheme then they will be the same or worse.

https://www.packers.com/video/...lay-fast-and-furious

Quit looking at the camera Matt.

@Boris posted:

Waiting for a coach to say "We're going to play slow and forgiving." https://t.co/2y013BFyOe

— Andrew Brandt (@AndrewBrandt) March 2, 2021

I'll go with "We're going to play careful and cautious."

That way nothing is overlooked. 

Hopefully we can get Vin Diesel to come in and talk to the team about what Fast and Furious means.

And Dwayne Johnson. Might be tough to get Paul Walker.

"We're going to play careful and cautious."

Under-commit, and over-perform. x4 will love it!

CheeseheadTV on some nuances in Barry's defense

Barry Will Let Playmakers Make Plays on Defense

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/barry-wil ... um=twitter

"One of those playmakers, safety Adrian Amos, may find new opportunities to make plays in the box this season. Early observations from training camp would certainly seem to indicate that Amos is getting extended playing time in the box, much closer to the line of scrimmage. That leaves third-year pro Darnell Savage and a third safety (still to be determined) in two-high "

...What’s more, the Staley defense is also known for playing with a Tite front, designed to force runs to the perimeter rather than right up the middle. This Tite front benefits the inside linebackers, Barry’s bread and butter in his defense.

In a traditional four-man front, a B-gap is left exposed, putting the onus on the inside linebacker to either play close to the line in an effort to stop the run, leaving himself vulnerable to a pass behind him, or play back to defend the pass, leaving an open running lane right up the B-gap.

In a Tite front, the nose tackle (T.J. Slaton) and defensive ends absorb both the A and B gaps, forcing any runs to the C gap outside of the tackles. This is where the speedier defenders like a safety creeping closer to the line can make a break on the ball carrier and negate a big play. "

@Satori posted:

In a traditional four-man front, a B-gap is left exposed, putting the onus on the inside linebacker to either play close to the line in an effort to stop the run, leaving himself vulnerable to a pass behind him, or play back to defend the pass, leaving an open running lane right up the B-gap.

In a Tite front, the nose tackle (T.J. Slaton) and defensive ends absorb both the A and B gaps, forcing any runs to the C gap outside of the tackles. This is where the speedier defenders like a safety creeping closer to the line can make a break on the ball carrier and negate a big play. "

This is what was maddening about the last few years- particularly the SF ass-kicking. The LBs we’re getting caught up in the wash, and that left that cutback or wider runs just all alone.

But if they’re winning up front, they’re winning. Hope Slayton can be that rock next to Clark.

I really wish they would sign an older vet like Geno Atkins or Gerald McCoy. 

@Henry posted:

I really wish they would sign an older vet like Geno Atkins or Gerald McCoy.

PM Arod….he’ll get on it.

McCoy signed with Raiders but Geno is still considering his options

Keke is bulked up a bit too... to better handle the run game

Kingsley Keke said he's up about 10 pounds from 293 last year  "I kind of felt light last year," he said. "But it's good lean weight." He said he expects to be better against the run this year. That was a goal of his to improve on this off-season.

More Keke to love.

came across a couple of snippets on the Fangio defense that may apply under Barry as well. Barry trained under a bunch of different defensive systems, but his familiarity with the Fangio stuff was part of the attraction for MLF choosing him.

DL

"In Fangio’s scheme, the NT  lines up off the center’s shoulder on the strong-side (same side as TE) and is only responsible for the gap in front of him. This requires a different type of NT as opposed to the classic space-eater used in standard 3-4 schemes. The NT in Fangio’s scheme needs to have the quickness to beat interior lineman off the snap and the strength to hold his ground against double-teams in the run game."

"In Fangio’s scheme one of the DEs moves inside to the 3-tech DT position. The 3-tech DT lines up between the guard and tackle on the weak side and is ideally the D-line’s best pass rusher. The 3-tech DT’s responsibility is to generate interior pressure on pass plays and get in the backfield to disrupt the running game. The 3rd D-lineman in Fangio’s scheme (#94) is close to a standard 3-4 DE but usually shades the strong-side tackle’s outside shoulder. The 5-tech DE’s role requires the ability to hold his ground against the run despite frequent double teams. If the DE can force a double team it frees up the lanes on either side of him for the linebackers."

OLBs

"The outside linebackers in Fangio’s scheme have two distinct roles. The OLBs basically rotate between stand-up defensive ends and run-stoppers with occasional zone coverage responsibilities depending on which side the TE lines up on. The strong-side OLB (whatever side the TE lines up on) will jam the TE and then drop back into a short zone on pass plays to defend against slants, screens, etc, or maintain the edge on a run play. The weak-side OLB (opposite side of TE) will move up to the line of scrimmage to be a stand-up DE (4th D-lineman) and his role is to rush the QB. The Niners used Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks at OLB and they are both excellent pass rushers who are athletic enough to either pressure the QB as a stand-up DE or drop back in short zone coverage if they are on the strong-side. Fangio doesn’t ask his OLBs to cover anyone man-to-man which opens up the position to players who would be considered tweeners in standard 4-3 or 3-4 schemes"

Overall:

Another key difference between the normal 4-3 under scheme and Vic Fangio’s version is versatility. He requires most of his defenders to play multiple positions on all three levels of the defense. Fangio would often switch Smith and Ray McDonald between the 3-tech and 5-tech positions based on match-ups. The NT is locked in place but the other two D-lineman need to be able to switch spots, his OLBs need to be able to play stand-up DE, his ILBs need to be able to play OLB at times, and his two starting safeties need to be interchangeable. Fangio’s defense thrives on the ability to change their scheme at any time and disguise what they are doing pre-snap. Without versatile players his disguised alignments will be more transparent. Fangio’s consistently changing schemes are going to be a welcome addition to fans who are used to watching the same defensive alignment over and over again

Fangio is great at confusing offenses with disguised coverages and adjusting his schemes on a play-to-play basis.

former Packer, Defensive tackle Ricky-Jean Francois described Barry’s approach in simple terms

“He’s not going to be trying to be the more aggressive dude. Only aggressive when he needs to. But at the same time, his one biggest thing is he wants his front four to get pressure. That was the biggest thing he emphasized. If he’s got DBs in the backend covering, he wants to be able to send that front four and drop seven. That’s every defensive coordinator’s dream to do. I want that dream to come true for him.”

@Satori posted:

came across a couple of snippets on the Fangio defense that may apply under Barry as well. Barry trained under a bunch of different defensive systems, but his familiarity with the Fangio stuff was part of the attraction for MLF choosing him.

DL

"In Fangio’s scheme, the NT  lines up off the center’s shoulder on the strong-side (same side as TE) and is only responsible for the gap in front of him. This requires a different type of NT as opposed to the classic space-eater used in standard 3-4 schemes. The NT in Fangio’s scheme needs to have the quickness to beat interior lineman off the snap and the strength to hold his ground against double-teams in the run game."

Sounds like Slaton is a good fit here.  Plus, the learning curve would be a bit easier.

"In Fangio’s scheme one of the DEs moves inside to the 3-tech DT position. The 3-tech DT lines up between the guard and tackle on the weak side and is ideally the D-line’s best pass rusher. The 3-tech DT’s responsibility is to generate interior pressure on pass plays and get in the backfield to disrupt the running game. (Kenny)The 3rd D-lineman in Fangio’s scheme (#94) is close to a standard 3-4 DE but usually shades the strong-side tackle’s outside shoulder. The 5-tech DE’s role requires the ability to hold his ground against the run despite frequent double teams. If the DE can force a double team it frees up the lanes on either side of him for the linebackers."

Better use that 10 million Gunt.

OLBs

"The outside linebackers in Fangio’s scheme have two distinct roles. The OLBs basically rotate between stand-up defensive ends and run-stoppers with occasional zone coverage responsibilities depending on which side the TE lines up on. The strong-side OLB (whatever side the TE lines up on) will jam the TE and then drop back into a short zone on pass plays to defend against slants, screens, etc, or maintain the edge on a run play. The weak-side OLB (opposite side of TE) will move up to the line of scrimmage to be a stand-up DE (4th D-lineman) and his role is to rush the QB. The Niners used Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks at OLB and they are both excellent pass rushers who are athletic enough to either pressure the QB as a stand-up DE or drop back in short zone coverage if they are on the strong-side. Fangio doesn’t ask his OLBs to cover anyone man-to-man which opens up the position to players who would be considered tweeners in standard 4-3 or 3-4 schemes"

Seems like a solid fit for Z and P but I get the feeling these guys will be on the line more than not.  I'm curious to see how it shakes out if Amos is going to be playing more towards the line.

Overall:

Another key difference between the normal 4-3 under scheme and Vic Fangio’s version is versatility. He requires most of his defenders to play multiple positions on all three levels of the defense. Fangio would often switch Smith and Ray McDonald between the 3-tech and 5-tech positions based on match-ups. The NT is locked in place but the other two D-lineman need to be able to switch spots, his OLBs need to be able to play stand-up DE, his ILBs need to be able to play OLB at times, and his two starting safeties need to be interchangeable. Fangio’s defense thrives on the ability to change their scheme at any time and disguise what they are doing pre-snap. Without versatile players his disguised alignments will be more transparent. Fangio’s consistently changing schemes are going to be a welcome addition to fans who are used to watching the same defensive alignment over and over again

Fangio is great at confusing offenses with disguised coverages and adjusting his schemes on a play-to-play basis.

This is the terrifying part.  ILB playing OLB?  They can barely play ILB.  I'm not sure "multiple positions" is in the Lancaster and Lowry repertoire.

former Packer, Defensive tackle Ricky-Jean Francois described Barry’s approach in simple terms

“He’s not going to be trying to be the more aggressive dude. Only aggressive when he needs to. But at the same time, his one biggest thing is he wants his front four to get pressure. That was the biggest thing he emphasized. If he’s got DBs in the backend covering, he wants to be able to send that front four and drop seven. That’s every defensive coordinator’s dream to do. I want that dream to come true for him.”

I think it's safe to say every defense wants to win with their front 4.  If they are, it's pretty much game over.

Pretty apparent there is a focus on the backfield and implementing the safeties differently, which is great.  I think Amos and Savage can really add another gear to the defense in this scheme.

Gunt needs to use that 10 million on the Dline.  That's all that's to it.

The most important thing is, and will always be, winning your one-on-one match ups. Rams had the second rated defense in the regular season, but with Donald injured they were below average. The next week we lost nearly every one of those one-on-ones and struggled.

I do think that one on ones simply are not going to always be won. At the pro level, they’re a draw 99% of the time. The margin is very slim in the NFL the vast majority of the time. If it was about one on ones exclusively, the best players would always win, and the Packers would have another Lombardi or two.

Scheme then has to support talent and give you a tactical advantage. Move, counter-move. In other words, putting your guys in the right position to tilt the advantage. The Packers saw that scheme erosion in the ‘10s going from the top of the mountain to the cellar.

Yes, many "draws", but no where near 99% of the time. In addition, what the offense has to do to create that "draw" is important. If you don't have to double team Donald you can help on another match up. Someone like Gino Atkins lining up next to Kenny Clark would be more effective than any change in scheme. Of course this is IMHO.

@Satori posted:

Fangio is great at confusing offenses with disguised coverages and adjusting his schemes on a play-to-play basis.

That's the thing that would really irk me Capers & Bald Man both did NOT adjust nor disguise coverages/schemes. How often did we hear from opposing players, they knew EXACTLY what was coming on defense.

Christ almighty, play a little poker out there & stop tipping your hand on every play.

@Satori posted:

former Packer, Defensive tackle Ricky-Jean Francois described Barry’s approach in simple terms

“He’s not going to be trying to be the more aggressive dude. Only aggressive when he needs to. But at the same time, his one biggest thing is he wants his front four to get pressure. That was the biggest thing he emphasized. If he’s got DBs in the backend covering, he wants to be able to send that front four and drop seven. That’s every defensive coordinator’s dream to do. I want that dream to come true for him.”

YOOGE! if he makes it happen. I see lots of turnovers if they get pressure with front four only. Savage, AA & yes even STOKES. What? No Jaire?!? Nope....why?? Because QB's won't even throw over there. PAY JAIRE!

@FLPACKER posted:

Someone like Gino Atkins lining up next to Kenny Clark would be more effective than any change in scheme. Of course this is IMHO.

I agree to a point- but that’s where the business side kicks in. Can they afford Atkins (or someone like him ) in his prime that is as good? Can you draft a player who is elite and on a rookie deal?

You gotta have talent, but you better have scheme.

It’s chicken/egg, sure- but I think history suggests that scheme has an edge over talent. Sure, lots of elite talent makes up for weak ass schemes… but it’s really friggin hard to have lots of elite talent.

"Fangio doesn’t ask his OLBs to cover anyone man-to-man "

This one is interesting in light of GB adding De'Vondre Campbell at ILB. Preston will still drop into hook/flat zone, but they won't ask him to run with RBs and TE's.

GB just didn't have a capable ILB for that role last year, but Barry's D relies on it more so they added Campbell. The smaller, speedier ILBs often get pushed around like a CB when facing the 6'5  265 TEs around the league.
DeVondre can certainly hold his own

Campbell tested at 92nd percentile for height, 89th percentile for arm length and 81st percentile for speed. Those are favorable for the role as described above

https://www.mockdraftable.com/...er/devondre-campbell

here's another interesting snippet

"his ILBs need to be able to play OLB at times"

We don't know how much of Fangio's system Barry will deploy-  but his familiarity with the scheme was part of the attraction for MLF.

We just heard last week that Kamal Martin will be training with the OLBs to learn that position. Given the ILB/OLB statement above - it makes sense to cross train your guys - especially the depth players like Martin. If he can handle a dual role, that's an additional chess piece for Barry and gives Martin a better shot at being active on Sundays

@Music City posted:

It’s chicken/egg, sure- but I think history suggests that scheme has an edge over talent. Sure, lots of elite talent makes up for weak ass schemes… but it’s really friggin hard to have lots of elite talent.

Of course to be at the top you have to have both but .... immensely talented teams have won with average to sub par coaching, but no team in any high level of any sport is going to win big without good talent. Coach K has had losing seasons in 2 of his first 3 years at Duke. John Wooden didn't make the NCAA tourney in 12 of his first 17 years. They didn't all of a sudden learn how to coach, they started getting high-end talent, although I realize there is no salary cap in college basketball.  Dom & Pettine both had top 5 defenses in their careers but were fired by the Packers....MLF's Tenn offense was 28th, but give him AR running it and it is #1, I would say that history tells us that talent trumps scheme.

Talent at the right positions, sure. 22 spots on the field, and the majority of them are above average. You can’t have untalented, but they cannot all be elite either. If you’re lucky to get a team full of top shelf guys, the business side makes it impossible to keep them all. Take San Francisco for example- not a winning season from ‘03-10, built a very good team with all those top picks and popped from ‘11-13, then lost 55 games then next 5 seasons.

And that’s why you need scheme (or coaching, which needs to be hand in hand). It makes players out of 7th rounders or undrafted guys. Fit in the scheme prevents wasted draft picks on guys who aren’t right for the way you play. If you can maintain a tactical advantage, you can sustain success and avoid the swings when top picks get raises.

Scheme and talent both matter- but sustained winning takes scheme to get production out of average players.

Coaching is really three fold: 1) Scheme / system (the whole) 2) Teaching of technique / fundamentals (the part) 3) Motivation / communication / team chemistry. The great coaches are good at all 3, but there are a lot of great coaches out there that no one has heard of because they never had great talent.

MLF calling out P. Smiff for a great job setting the edge in run defense this camp.

Good to hear he's excelling in run defense rather than pass coverage.