Knee jerk time? or not?

Its way passed time. We need a DC that understands modern style offenses.

But does the team have the personnel on defense? Other than the DB's and Matthews.

I'm all for moving on from Dom, but the problem is still mostly the players. Now, a new DC could perhaps scheme better around what they have to mask some deficiencies, but ultimately the talent on the field has to improve

 

There is really no good reason why this team is going on its 3rd season with Hawk/Jones as their ILBers. The OLB depth looks good, and I like the CB's. Safeties didn't play great tonight but I see the upside with that group - Burnett seriously worries me though, he's still late to react too often and just doesn't seem to have that light bulb turning on for him to take his game to the next level

 

This DL and ILBers are just brutal, though at least with the ILBers they have some other options who couldn't possibly be worse. Give them a shot.

 

1. Replace one of the two ILBs. Brad Jones, preferably. His only role on the roster seems to be to make Hawk not look so horrible by comparison. If Barrington or Lattimore can't replace a turdheap like Jones (he literally does nothing well); then they don't belong on an NFL roster, period.

 

2. Get Guion to the bottom of the depth chart ASAP, and start getting Pennel and Boyd reps at NT to see if either of them can stuff the run. If they can't, this team is ****ed. Neither of them are probably going to be able to rush the passer in the way Raji has shown in the past (and was doing again this preseason ), they just need a guy who isn't getting pushed down field 7 yards or dumped on his ass every play.

 

3. Pray that Bulaga isn't out for more than a game or two (or better yet, none), if he is going to IR, this team is ****ed. Of course McCarthy saying it's a "sprained knee" and seeing Bulaga walk around on the sideline means nothing until there's an MRI (is anyone here not expecting it to be a torn ACL?).

 

4. McCarthy needs to call a better game offensively. I don't care how good Richard Sherman is, Aaron Rodgers is one of the best players in the league, you have to test him at least a little bit. Their decision to not even throw his way was one of the most gutless things I've ever seen in an NFL game.

 

If they can successfully pull off most of that stuff, they're still going to be a decent team this year. If none of it happens, we're probably looking at an 8-8 team.

The initial results of MM's special touch on the defense aren't particularly promising. Brad Jones is terrible and overpaid,  Morgan Burnett is very average and overpaid and Guion is right up there with Jeff Saturday in terms of shrewd FA acquisitions.

 

The team was outplayed in all three phases by a superior team, but there's simply no excuse for the abysmal performance of the defense and something has to be done.  

I struggle with this concept a little bit because it's not Capers fault that Hawk and Jones suck.   You can't blame Capers for the Raji injury either.

Still, it's all about results.   This defense has been awful for 3 years now.   It's probably time for a change

 

Dang, at 74 with the days flying by I cannot wait for MM to realize that Uncle Dom's "guruship" has been outmoded for several years. Does "Uncle Dom have photos of MM doing something wrong? He must have something on MM cause that is the only way MM cannot see what is happening in front of his eyes. Bye Bye Dom!!

Dang, you guys still up?  Anyway, I am trying my best to STFU, but it is hard. The O was not much better - the play calling was awful.  The o-line, just as bad.  Aaron looked like crap.  But then again, the Seahawks make all teams look this bad at home.  The thing that floored me was, I thought the Packers were just going to let it rip - play fast and aggressively.  Instead, they played scared. I am so glad I took the day off - too embarrassed to go to work and face some of the Seahawk fans.  I guess I am not much better in terms of guts.  As far as Dom, I really do not think he can get it done and I am not a fan of the 3-4.  Moreover, do these guys know how to tackle? 

Up early, couldn't sleep, and still sick.  Ugh......  all fast and furious..... right, who was that gonna be?  certainly not the Packers.   Gonna be a long season, and I just hate to say this, the hags are looking pretty tough.  Back to back super bowls??  a real possibility.     

Actually, the most abysmal performance was on the offense, not the defense.

Take away the garbage time touchdown, and the defense gave up 20 points.  When the game was in the balance---MM decision to go for it on 4th down at midfield--the defense rallied and held, and the offense failed to do anything.

I'm not excusing the defense---there was a lot of poor performances.  And you can add in poor special teams play---Harris running out two kickoffs, the running into the kicker after  a defensive stop.  

They will "get it fixed" yet again.

I just won $5.

The Brad Jonea, Letroy Guion problems still exist whether you have Capers, Bob Slowik, or Tom Landry coaching the D.

My knee jerk reaction is to not fire Capers, but fire those players from significant PT. MM preaches about always putting the best 11 on the field at all times, well if. Brad Jones and Letroy Guion are 2 of the top 11 defenders we have then that is a severe problem. I would say give some young guys a try because they can't be worse. Pennell may not be an effective NT overall, but he has size and he has raw strength. It he can anchor and at least get in the way then he's an upgrade over Guion. And while I doubt Barrington is anything special, he can't possibly make any more mistakes than Jones made...Jones had rookie mistakes galore. We've seen young players step up in GB before and perform when the coaches seemed to think they needed to redshirt.

"Can't be worse" should be the mantra for picking next weeks starting 11 on D.

+1

CAPackFan:

There is really no good reason why this team is going on its 3rd season with Hawk/Jones as their ILBers.

Perhaps we need Adams as a #4 WR more than whomever could have been drafted in the 2nd round at ILB.

OK, I get the whole BPA, but what exactly did TT do in the draft wrt ILB and how much has ILB been a concern?

I hate BSPN, but I have to agree with them this morning saying that not even testing Richard Sherman, and only playing half the field for the offensive was a very bad idea.

If the Packers jerk their knee -- even if it's the right thing to do -- they're liable to blow out their ACL.

Ignoring Sherman's side cost a TD.  On the third down play where AR launched it to Jordy in the endzone, the radio commentary  and the JSO blog noted that Sherman had dropped Adams, who was wide open on the sideline for an easy TD.  But, if you aren't even going to to look that way....

There's nothing to knee jerk about where we are. This is not a top tier team. This team cannot, and as constructed will not, compete with Seattle, it's not even close. I appreciate the enthusiasm but seeing the prediction thread was surprising. This team has proven it cannot beat San Francisco. Close scores or not, fact is they own the Packers. I think New Orleans is better than the Pack, not by a mile but they are a much better coached team in every aspect. We are at best the 4th best team in the conference. We will beat up on the division and the rest of the NFC. But we are not going anywhere unless we get get lucky and avoid those 3, which seems virtually impossible.

There's nothing to knee jerk about this defense. Injuries, healthy, talented, not talented, Capers needs to be fired, Capers is a genius. It doesn't matter. It is a defense that sucked the last 3 years and I see nothing that changes that this year. Until significant changes are made in coaching and talent that side of the ball will continue to be a dumpster fire. Ultimately that's on MM and TT to continue to watch this and do nothing.  If they are going to continue to hold out hope that Brad Jones will magically get it or that Dom Capers will all of a sudden turn this into the 2010 defense there's not much we can do but watch this train wreck.

There's nothing to knee jerk about the offense. Seattle is a dominant defense. No one is dropping 30 on them. Injuries to OL made it even less likely that they were gonna do much last night. They will be fine and they will look great against almost everyone - save Seattle and SF.

There's nothing to knee jerk about. The Packers are a good team. They will beat up on the dregs of the league and they will get beat by the top tier teams every time. They are the NFL version of Ohio State.

Level your expectations, hope for the best.

The only thing modern about SEA's offense is Harvin and they didn't even need him last night.  The heart and soul of that offense is Lynch and the running game - old school style.  Our D will have to worry more about stopping traditional run games, even though few teams possess that ability anymore. 

Outstanding post. Knowing our MLBs stink, we can't stop the run, our d-coordinator is over-matched, and the o-line has no depth are not knee jerk reactions. It's the exact same story every year with this crew.

 

I'm not that discouraged about the offense. That's as good as a defense you'll see. They gave SF, NO, and Denver absolutely fits last year. The Bulaga injury is highly concerning…and if you go with Sherrod, you better give him more help. But all in all, we know the offense will be fine.

 

What's not fine is that defense. And the only way GB will ever compete against these elite teams is for that unit to actually stop people or create turnovers. And the sooner TT and MM realize that's not possible with some of the key personnel and coaches on that side of the ball, the better. Why it should take three years to figure that out is beyond me.

well we have a knee and a jerk

 

knee = Bulaga

jerk = Capers

 

the biggest thing about last night was a bitch slap back to reality that we still can not compete with the top tier in the NFC. I hate that we continually get outmuscled at the LOS.

we are a finesse team that needs to pray for injuries to the Niners and Seahawks and even New Orleans if we think were winning a playoff game.

 

The bears did us a huge favor by trying to copy our fast paced offense and totally ditched their defensive reputation. Were better than them at that offensive style. They shoulda copied SF instead of us.

 

Need a bounce back week against the lowly jets 

I should have iced cookies last night. 

 

Seriously, I was pretty disappointed in Arod. Can anyone remember him EVER overthrowing a pass (other than intentionally) by as much as he did on that rocket ball intended for Nelson? Before the season, he talked about how he was really happy about where he is in his life. I assumed that was a reference to his love life. Maybe he needs to get dumped by Olivia so he gets ticked off and plays the kind of football that he's capable of again. 

Firing Capers may not be the most popular decision, but barring a total 180 against the elite teams in the NFC, it is the most logical decision. You cannot fire this defense. The bottom line is a lot of quality players exist on this unit but time after time, Capers has no answers as to how to elevate average players or to maximize performances from the talent he does have.

 

And may I add, I am still dumbfounded by why GB holds Winston Moss in such high regard that they needed to make him assistant HC for fear of losing him. Outside of CMIII, seriously...who has he coached up to be a better player or taken a LB, found out his talents, then exploited them to make him a better player?

 

I cannot think of one. CMIII is probably this level of player no matter who coaches him. What is so special about Moss?

The sure tackling by the Seahawks defense proved it's not a lost art. Why can't our players learn that rugby style play that the announcers were talking about. they wrap up well. we don't.

I've actually been thinking they're positioned very similarly to the early Manning Colts. Fantastic offense, questions on defense and no problem running through the regular season and topping their division year after year. The 9ers/Seahawks are this team's Patriots as the hump they just can't seem to get over. It doesn't mean GB won't be in the picture with legitimate title hopes year after year, they're just going to have to close that gap if they ever want to be the favorites.

 

Last year was the first time in a long time that the favorite held the Lomardi, so I'm going to enjoy the ride and see how things shake out come January.

I think it may be time to think about letting Dom go this offseason but I am stuck in a chicken vs. the egg argument.  Is it because his time has passed and can't adapt or is it the players? On one hand I can understand that Dom can only coach them so much and once they step on the field he can't tackle for them and is only given the players he has to coach.  I personally think it is the players in this defense.  I do not think it is an accident you keep hearing players like Daniels tell the media that they need to get meaner, need to get tougher, and need to be more physical.  This to me is what is missing a knock you in to next week toughness and a mean disposition.  I would bet outside of a couple of players OC's from other teams do not fear the Packers defense.  So with that babble I will go with the lack of players more than what Dom can do.

To take Packerboi point about Moss a little further ...

 

Why was Kevin Greene let go? I never really saw a good explanation.

IMO, Matthews' rise was more of a Greene thing than Moss but I'm not at practice everyday either. Sure looked like it on gameday.

 

When this defense was good during Superbowl run, sure looked to me that Greene was the dude putting a little fire/thunder into the defense AND for a front 7, IMO the NFL is about that ... Playing with assignment smart-leverage and a kick-arse attitude.

JMO.

Greene wasn't let go.  He decided to resign and spend more time with his family.

This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, like Urban Meyer?

Not buying it as far as internal goings-on with the Defense/Coaching.

 

But, I guess he did not go  somewhere else either, but neither did Meyer for a year.

K Greene wasn't let go, he resigned to spend more time with his family.  Honorable thing to do, and he realized that's what he wanted instead of putting in 20 hours days for 6 months.  

It is hard to stop the run if you have a defense that is soft up the middle.  One more week of this and TT may have to call up Ryan Pickett.

 

It was just a poor performance overall.  Rodgers was off target and forcing things.  Sherrod can't handle speed off the edge.  Stupid penalties at key moments.  Dropped interceptions.  Missed tackles.

 

Pick your poison.

If I am not mistaken Pickett has played on this soft, underperforming D before.  He may be a upgrade but IMO it will not make much difference.......when is the last time he was a difference maker?  Was he ever?

I'm as big a fan of how TT runs this team as much as anyone, but the frustrating thing is that it always takes this kind of showing before he takes a weakness seriously. It took a terrible showing by our backup OLBs for him to get serious about bringing in a pass rushing threat opposite Matthews starting with drafting Nick Perry and finally solved with Peppers. It took one of the worst seasons in NFL history by a group of Safeties for him to get serious about replacing Collins. Hopefully this showing by Hawk and Jones motivated him to cut the crap and bring in some true ILBs. There were options, they chose to stick with these guys, not sure why. We all suspected it had to do with Hawk and Jones being "assignment sure or knowing the D", but they seemed to fail on their responsibilities more than any player on the D. Capers can protest and say he wants new ILBs, but ultimately TT decides what players we field. 

Look how Rory McIlroy turned his golf game around after he broke up with the tennis player Carol Wozniaki. lol

This is dead horse stuff and all,.. but two of the big reasons the D looked as good as it did in 2010 and better than what we've seen the past few years was Cullen Jenkins and Desmond Bishop (I suppose you could add an energized Raji in 2010 to this list) but GB has never replaced Jenkins or Bishop. I still think Daniels has the game to fill what Jenkins brought to the table. 

 

Desmond when he was healthy was not only a tackling machine, he was an aggressive tackling machine. He brought the fight and didn't let it come to him. When he tore that hammy off the bone in SD that was the end of decent ILB play in GB. ILB hasn't looked respectable since. If anything it's regressing because neither Hawk or Jones look like they are playing with any confidence. Just trying not to give up the big plays. 

 

Really a defining crossroads for TT and MM right now. It couldn't be more plainer that this D don't have the team or scheme to stop elite offenses. I have to think both are kind of blown away this morning that last night really happened. MM has his stamp on this D now. "Write it down in big, bold letters. We will be better on defense this year" was his quote. 

 

Going to be a very interesting year. 

       
       


https://packers.timesfour.com/topic/ted-thompson-1

That's thompson's style. Loyal as they come to his players.

Sometimes it's brilliant...see the quarterback and other times it backfires.

Hawk set the tone on that first kick out play to the right when he had the angle on Lynch (or Harvin?) and decided to wait for him to come to him rather than come up to stick him.  I just thought "this guy doesn't want to play big boy football".